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Old 06-04-2014, 10:20 PM   #43
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what happens is you get about 35 hysterical posts on IRV2.....
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Old 06-05-2014, 06:31 AM   #44
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Originally Posted by VanDiemen23 View Post
what happens is you get about 35 hysterical posts on IRV2.....
Just like the posts about someone asking about towing doubles........
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Old 06-05-2014, 11:23 PM   #45
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More potential items for the Darwin Awards.
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Old 06-08-2014, 08:02 AM   #46
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Originally Posted by SmokeyWren View Post
There are two weight limits you need to be concerned with. GVWR and GCWR. Tow rating is not a weight rating - it is simply the GCWR minus the shipping weight of the new truck.
^^^^^^ NOTE "NEW" ^^^^^^^^

Not jumping on-board with the internet safety police, but there is something here that has not been mentioned outside of this post.

The capabilities and ratings of any vehicle or trailer are defined and stated in "as new and in good repair" condition. Some springs grow weaker as they age, some actually work harden and become stiffer (just before they break). Brakes, bearings, tires, everything has its limits and they typically don't get better with age.

Probably for another thread but....
Europe has a lot more vehicle overloading than we typically do. You don't read a lot about people owning and driving F250/350/450 to pull their trailers or having huge engines in almost anything. They have always been seen as "doing more with less" and it makes you wonder how we here in the USA justify ourselves.

Anyway - like my primary flight instructor taught me years ago -
There's no such thing as a dumb question - and even if there was such a thing as a dumb question, it would be a whole lot easier to handle than a dumb mistake...
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Old 06-08-2014, 10:58 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by Cypressloser View Post
Don't forget your axle weight ratings.
You can lose your insurance when operating vehicle outside it's limits/capacities as well as brakes, transmission etc.
Actually that is a rumor, no one has ever admitted to experiencing that. The mfgrs ratings are just recommendations, they have no basis in law. If the ratings are ignored and one operates a vehicle overloaded, it will wear out much faster than what the mfgrs engineers projected.
That said, I strongly recommend you follow this trailer weight calculator results and consider using the recommended safety factor built into the calculator.
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Old 06-09-2014, 07:16 AM   #48
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OP: thanks for asking. This is how I am able to learn. I am new to the forum and to RVing. We just retired and got into a 3/4 ton RAM diesel towing a 26' Shadow Cruiser weighing around 5K. Too much truck some say. But we just got back from our first good trip out to Cali on the south route and returned along the I70 mountain route. Even though our tow rig weighs around 8K and has exhaust braking and 4W disk brakes, I could definitely feel the trailer pushing as I came down many of the grades. Had a few nervous moments I did not share w SWMBO to keep her calm. Any way, I am learning and know this already... as many have said... get more TV than you need, if you can. Especially if you will be in the mtns.
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Old 06-09-2014, 09:15 AM   #49
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Originally Posted by Ray,IN View Post
Actually that is a rumor, no one has ever admitted to experiencing that. The mfgrs ratings are just recommendations, they have no basis in law. If the ratings are ignored and one operates a vehicle overloaded, it will wear out much faster than what the mfgrs engineers projected.
That said, I strongly recommend you follow this trailer weight calculator results and consider using the recommended safety factor built into the calculator.
I know that in the jurisdiction I worked you could not license a truck for more than the manufacturer axle weight specifications for that truck. Owners paid the license fee based on the weight they wanted to haul up to the maximum. If they wanted to license for more than the minimum for the truck model they had to provide documentation to show the truck (and tires) was built to carry that amount of weight.

When we hired the trucks to haul we used the registered weight to determine the amount we would load on them. Overloaded trucks were not allowed out from the scales.

MH are not like trucks so I doubt anyone actually checking to make sure the RV owner is using the rig within it recommended guidelines.
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Old 06-09-2014, 03:00 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by raytwntrvlr View Post
OP: thanks for asking. This is how I am able to learn. I am new to the forum and to RVing. We just retired and got into a 3/4 ton RAM diesel towing a 26' Shadow Cruiser weighing around 5K. Too much truck some say. But we just got back from our first good trip out to Cali on the south route and returned along the I70 mountain route. Even though our tow rig weighs around 8K and has exhaust braking and 4W disk brakes, I could definitely feel the trailer pushing as I came down many of the grades. Had a few nervous moments I did not share w SWMBO to keep her calm. Any way, I am learning and know this already... as many have said... get more TV than you need, if you can. Especially if you will be in the mtns.
I towed a similar trailer with a 88 Ranger 2.9l V6 for 3 years. It worked fine and turned many heads when arriving at campgrounds.
Got the Idea from a camper towing a similar unit with a 4 cylinder Toyota 4 x 4.
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Old 06-09-2014, 08:06 PM   #51
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No such thing as too muck truck !! IMHO I just need a bigger wallet ! So now i just going to stay within the safety limits and enjoy what we have , and look toward the future !!!!!
Jim
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Old 06-09-2014, 08:37 PM   #52
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Originally Posted by Gordon Dewald View Post
I know that in the jurisdiction I worked you could not license a truck for more than the manufacturer axle weight specifications for that truck. Owners paid the license fee based on the weight they wanted to haul up to the maximum. If they wanted to license for more than the minimum for the truck model they had to provide documentation to show the truck (and tires) was built to carry that amount of weight.

When we hired the trucks to haul we used the registered weight to determine the amount we would load on them. Overloaded trucks were not allowed out from the scales.

MH are not like trucks so I doubt anyone actually checking to make sure the RV owner is using the rig within it recommended guidelines.
Good points and right on
RV forums are a hoot when it come to the different opinions on legal weight issue. So much useless comments get posted by folks that have never been there.

I've got over 800k mile in a 11 year period using 3500 SRW/DRW trucks. Legal issues for determining how much load a truck can carry is determined by the trucks FAWR/RAWR. And of course tire load ratings which will have to be equal to or better than the GAWRs.

I think California says it best with this;
eclared Operating Weight

What are GVW and CGW?

3. Q - Can I declare an operating weight higher than my vehicle's Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (GVWR)?

A- Yes, but only if you are declaring the weight of your vehicle in combination with a towed vehicle and its load (the Combined Gross Weight). NOTE: A declared Combined Gross Weight does not authorize a truck without another vehicle in tow to exceed the truck's authorized axle weight limits. "

And another example from the California motor vehicle enforcement side;

Q: “Many of the owners travel over their tow vehicle GVWR and /or
GCWR. Are there any state laws against this? Or does the owner just
take the risk if they wish?”


A: The California Vehicle Code (CVC) does not contain a law that
specifically limits the amount of weight a vehicle may tow based on the
towing vehicle GVWR or GCWR. There are, however, laws that limit the
amount a vehicle may tow based on other criteria.
Section 1085(d) of Title 13 California Code of Regulations prohibits
the loading of tires above the maximum load rating marked on the tire,
or if unmarked the maximum load rating as specified in the applicable
Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standard, or in a publication furnished to
the public by the tire manufacturer. This would most likely happen in
the case of a pickup truck towing a large fifth wheel travel trailer, as
those types of trailers tend to transfer a larger portion of their
weight to the last axle of the towing unit causing that axle to exceed
the tire load limits.

Regardless of info posted on a RV forum were all hauling legally under the same weight regs between all the states.
Some state require a private use truck to be registered at some type of weight. Other states like mine have no registered weight. We simple carry weight determined by the lessor of the vehicles axle/tire load rating.

Now the OPs question about a 4500 lb dry camper and a 6000 lb tow rating deserves a answer .
The first sign could be a bit sluggish towing performance especially with the smaller V8 and V6 engines. The newer gen 375-400 hp small blocks not much at all.
Trucks 20-30 years ago had small radiator capacity and could run hot .None of those issues we have today.

IMO TH OP is needlessly concerned about those numbers being a over weight condition.
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Old 06-09-2014, 09:17 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raytwntrvlr View Post
OP: thanks for asking. This is how I am able to learn. I am new to the forum and to RVing. We just retired and got into a 3/4 ton RAM diesel towing a 26' Shadow Cruiser weighing around 5K. Too much truck some say. But we just got back from our first good trip out to Cali on the south route and returned along the I70 mountain route. Even though our tow rig weighs around 8K and has exhaust braking and 4W disk brakes, I could definitely feel the trailer pushing as I came down many of the grades. Had a few nervous moments I did not share w SWMBO to keep her calm. Any way, I am learning and know this already... as many have said... get more TV than you need, if you can. Especially if you will be in the mtns.
I have the best example of light load for a tow vehicle.
6000 lbs worth of Jeep and trailer pulled by 13,000 Truck (U-RV).
When I say I can't feel it back there, I'm not stretching the truth one bit.




Quote:
Originally Posted by rideandslide View Post
No such thing as too muck truck !! IMHO I just need a bigger wallet ! So now i just going to stay within the safety limits and enjoy what we have , and look toward the future !!!!!
Jim
This Jim agrees with that Jim 100% no such thing as too much truck.
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Old 06-10-2014, 12:11 AM   #54
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I researched my rig carefully and follow all of the weight guidelines applicable. I am under on all of the ratings.

I do so of my own choice because I carry some very special cargo when I travel - the DW and myself. You can rationalize and use annecdotal information as much as you want however it is risk you are taking. I have often been told to only bet if the odds are in your favor. I can manage my own risk but I cannot manage yours. I can only hope that none of us will have an accident that involves others.
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Old 06-10-2014, 12:45 AM   #55
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Originally Posted by Gordon Dewald View Post
I researched my rig carefully and follow all of the weight guidelines applicable. I am under on all of the ratings.

I do so of my own choice because I carry some very special cargo when I travel - the DW and myself. You can rationalize and use annecdotal information as much as you want however it is risk you are taking. I have often been told to only bet if the odds are in your favor. I can manage my own risk but I cannot manage yours. I can only hope that none of us will have an accident that involves others.
Well said, sir!
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Old 06-10-2014, 01:31 AM   #56
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Originally Posted by JIMNLIN View Post
Good points and right on
RV forums are a hoot when it come to the different opinions on legal weight issue. So much useless comments get posted by folks that have never been there.

I've got over 800k mile in a 11 year period using 3500 SRW/DRW trucks. Legal issues for determining how much load a truck can carry is determined by the trucks FAWR/RAWR. And of course tire load ratings which will have to be equal to or better than the GAWRs.

I think California says it best with this;
eclared Operating Weight

What are GVW and CGW?

3. Q - Can I declare an operating weight higher than my vehicle's Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (GVWR)?

A- Yes, but only if you are declaring the weight of your vehicle in combination with a towed vehicle and its load (the Combined Gross Weight). NOTE: A declared Combined Gross Weight does not authorize a truck without another vehicle in tow to exceed the truck's authorized axle weight limits. "

And another example from the California motor vehicle enforcement side;

Q: “Many of the owners travel over their tow vehicle GVWR and /or
GCWR. Are there any state laws against this? Or does the owner just
take the risk if they wish?”

A: The California Vehicle Code (CVC) does not contain a law that
specifically limits the amount of weight a vehicle may tow based on the
towing vehicle GVWR or GCWR. There are, however, laws that limit the
amount a vehicle may tow based on other criteria.
Section 1085(d) of Title 13 California Code of Regulations prohibits
the loading of tires above the maximum load rating marked on the tire,
or if unmarked the maximum load rating as specified in the applicable
Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standard, or in a publication furnished to
the public by the tire manufacturer. This would most likely happen in
the case of a pickup truck towing a large fifth wheel travel trailer, as
those types of trailers tend to transfer a larger portion of their
weight to the last axle of the towing unit causing that axle to exceed
the tire load limits.

Regardless of info posted on a RV forum were all hauling legally under the same weight regs between all the states.
Some state require a private use truck to be registered at some type of weight. Other states like mine have no registered weight. We simple carry weight determined by the lessor of the vehicles axle/tire load rating.

Now the OPs question about a 4500 lb dry camper and a 6000 lb tow rating deserves a answer .
The first sign could be a bit sluggish towing performance especially with the smaller V8 and V6 engines. The newer gen 375-400 hp small blocks not much at all.
Trucks 20-30 years ago had small radiator capacity and could run hot .None of those issues we have today.

IMO TH OP is needlessly concerned about those numbers being a over weight condition.
Right on
There to many comments confusing to many readers.
What did we do before the internet.
I go by my registered truck capacity and what I feel comfortable with.
After all most RVs are just a part time thing.
In the past to much truck was concern for pin box failures. Trailers having frame failures happened. Now I would say truck springs are to weak as ride quality leaves us with depending on an overload ply. Even DRW trucks have housing wrap then never happened before. Caused by long weak spring plies.
Even coiled rear springs are coming back to further complicate the towing performance.
I had a 4 cyl Ranger 1/4 ton 4 x 4 that could carry more in the box then a 2wd GM.
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