Over Weight or Under Powered?

[hjsdds]

There is one accessory that in my opinion makes real difference on the venerable 7 liters, propane injection. That MDT I had with the 7.3 International had one installed.
The LP tank in the bed was for the system. Of course nothing is free and in addition to the diesel required I would typically go through one LP tank on the way to Florida (from New Hampshire) and one on the way back. But there was a significant improvement in up hill performance out of that 7 liter (dropping less gears and often holding the gear all the way up).
One word of caution though, although the kit is just under a grand the installation can run you three grands and you better spend it. First you are dealing with full pressure LP so you need a competent "gas" guy to plumb it properly and safely. Second setting it up with the engine and when the propane comes in and how much is critical, otherwise you might be picking up pistons off the pavement, so again a competent guy who "installed these things before" is essential. Incidentally you can turn the system on or off with a switch and I usually kept it off on the flats (unless I wanted to pass someone quickly), When the unit is on it does not run all the time, it detects certain level of turbo boost and comes in when the turbo pressure reaches the preset level. First you smell the LP being burnt and then you feel that pleasant kick in the pants from the engine and 50 RPMs increase on the tach.

hjs

[delmarrey]

SOoooo, how much extra EGT would it create with the LPG injection. Did you have to put any lubricity additives into the diesel fuel.

As for the install, no problem. I use to maintain the CNG fuel sites for the City here. 5000 psi is my limit though. But I'm not sure I want to go to that extreme. And the fuel cost per trip/mile???? I'm in no hurry.

[caissiel]

Have thought of propane or water to help combustion and add power. But I already have to much power now. No need for more investment.

I think Snow has the real thing for power and clean diesel.

Hypertech and Banks know how to program with years of testing.
It took 2 years of testing to come up with a programmer for the Ford 6.7.
I surely would not get something programmed while sitting at a computer. And they are 50 state legal.

[hjsdds]

Originally Posted by delmarrey

SOoooo, how much extra EGT would it create with the LPG injection. Did you have to put any lubricity additives into the diesel fuel.

As for the install, no problem. I use to maintain the CNG fuel sites for the City here. 5000 psi is my limit though. But I'm not sure I want to go to that extreme. And the fuel cost per trip/mile???? I'm in no hurry.

I was very skeptical about the system, the previous owner of the truck installed it when he went across the Rockies with his large Newmar and discovered that the truck was a dog in the mountains, but the price was right so I tolerated it. I haven't used it at first and I discovered that the truck was a dog on the hills pulling. After few months we were in the hilly part of New England so I decided to "give it a shot" and flicked the switch on, couldn't believe the difference it made on the next hill, it really works. Being an engineer I did a bit of research on these things, there were three companies selling these systems back then.
First the LP is very clean and burns very clean and completely so any antipollution system is happy to see it. Second it is injected on the output side of the intercooler and being very cold it further cools the hot compressed air from the turbo helping the combustion.
Can't answer your question about need for more lubricity of the combined fuels, I wasn't aware that it was needed, I didn't do it, I had the truck for 5 years, the previous owner had it for 4 years and I didn't see any ill effects of it on that engine.

hjs

[delmarrey]

I've been doing so research, and yeah the propane does add quit a bit of torque with the high HP tune chips. But once one gets above 600# the engine starts taking a beating. And the injection actually cools the EGT. But I think I'd rather not have all that gear under the hood and riding in the bed.

Does anyone have any experience with the SCT Flash Programmer?
SCT Performance - SCT X4 Power Flash Ford ProgrammerÂ*Â*Part Number: 7015

It looks like a good option where one can return the PCM back to stock settings if need be, like for a state emissions test.

I've already ordered a 26 row trans oil cooler and I'll be ordering the ISSPRO gauges tonight. I still have to run this old 4R110 stock transmission.

[jesilvas]

SCT is fine, but more popular on a 6.0. In fact, programmers are more popular on a 6.0 and up.
7.3s usually take chips because you flip a knob and you're back to stock.

Power Hungry Performance - Feed your hunger for POWER!
Total Diesel Performance
Swamp's Diesel Performance - Diesel Performance Parts and Products
https://www.innovativediesel.com/

Just an idea of a few of them, all custom tunes. As many, or as few as you want, set up how you want. Safer than most all other "programmers."

I would get an external trans filter like the one from Dieselsite, and a valve body, either from John Woods or Brian's Truck Shop.

[Goneracin]

Originally Posted by jesilvas

SCT is fine, but more popular on a 6.0. In fact, programmers are more popular on a 6.0 and up.
7.3s usually take chips because you flip a knob and you're back to stock.

Power Hungry Performance - Feed your hunger for POWER!
Total Diesel Performance
Swamp's Diesel Performance - Diesel Performance Parts and Products
https://www.innovativediesel.com/

Just an idea of a few of them, all custom tunes. As many, or as few as you want, set up how you want. Safer than most all other "programmers."

I would get an external trans filter like the one from Dieselsite, and a valve body, either from John Woods or Brian's Truck Shop.

All very good information. I have heard that the programmers dont do too much for the money on the 7.3. Im actually trying to decide between PHP and DP for a chip on my 7.3, they can be very safe and improve the performance quite nicely, then turn a knob and you are back to stock. (at least thats what ive heard)

[SmokeyWren]

Originally Posted by delmarrey

Maybe if I install a water cooled exhaust like on my boat I could keep the EGT down enough to pull the hills?

That suggests you misunderstand what EGT tells you.

The pre-turbo EGT is an indicator of the temp in your combustion chamber, where the aluminium pistons are going up and down. It's hotter in the combustion chamber than in the pre-turbo location of your EGT sender (thermocouple). We cannot measure the actual combustion chamber temp, so we get the next best thing - pre-turbo EGT. Lots of testing convinced the engineers that if you maintain pre-turbo EGT at less than 1250 F., your pistons and valve seats will live to climb another mountain.

After the exhaust gasses exit the combustion chamber, it doesn't really matter how hot is the exhaust gas. The turbo and the exhaust system can take it. But if it is over 1,250 F. pre-turbo, that means your pistons and valve seats are in danger of warping, or worse.

So cooling the exhaust gasses after they exit the combustion chamber is a useless exercise. You want to prevent too-high temps in the combustion chamber by controlling fuel, intake air and exhaust restriction. The "tune" in the PCM, plus a good intake and exhaust system, does most of that for you. Your part is to watch the pyrometer and modulate the go pedal to maintain pre-turbo EGT between 1200 and 1250F when climbing steep grades with a heavy trailer.

[delmarrey]

Originally Posted by SmokeyWren

That suggests you misunderstand what EGT tells you.

The pre-turbo EGT is an indicator of the temp in your combustion chamber, where the aluminium pistons are going up and down. It's hotter in the combustion chamber than in the pre-turbo location of your EGT sender (thermocouple). We cannot measure the actual combustion chamber temp, so we get the next best thing - pre-turbo EGT. Lots of testing convinced the engineers that if you maintain pre-turbo EGT at less than 1250 F., your pistons and valve seats will live to climb another mountain.

After the exhaust gasses exit the combustion chamber, it doesn't really matter how hot is the exhaust gas. The turbo and the exhaust system can take it. But if it is over 1,250 F. pre-turbo, that means your pistons and valve seats are in danger of warping, or worse.

So cooling the exhaust gasses after they exit the combustion chamber is a useless exercise. You want to prevent too-high temps in the combustion chamber by controlling fuel, intake air and exhaust restriction. The "tune" in the PCM, plus a good intake and exhaust system, does most of that for you. Your part is to watch the pyrometer and modulate the go pedal to maintain pre-turbo EGT between 1200 and 1250F when climbing steep grades with a heavy trailer.

I appreciate all that, but you do know I was just joking around ()

But I will say automotive diesels are new to me, unlike boat diesels that I've been around since Vietnam. They are a whole different can of worms.
Boats are much simpler in that they run mostly continuously RPMs and torque @ a max of 70% of their rated HP. Using the reserve power for needed situations, but only for short durations. Then one starts to worry about EGTs. And just in the past few years they've been starting to use turbos to get more power out of the smaller motors, to save space.

Thanks.

[delmarrey]

I'm back!

Well, I had all the goodies installed that SmokeyWren had suggested and what a major difference it made.
First, just replacing the injectors I probably gained back 50 hp, as well it cured the shutter at 35-45 mph.

And with the DP Tuner, I used the 80 hp street mode and gawd its like driving a Mustang. This is almost like a new truck. Now I just need to keep up with the maintenance, watch the gauges and it should be a great truck.

Thanks SmokeyWren, and to the rest of you for your help!

Oh, there was one item I installed not mentioned, an overboost annihilator.

[Goneracin]

Very nice, glad to hear it all worked out well for you.

Just as a side note, I installed a billet turbo compressor wheel over the weekend and WOW, what a difference it made on the truck especially while towing. Just though I would give you something to add to your possible future mod list.

[delmarrey]

Yeah! I considered a 6 blade turbo fan but I figured I'd wait until the turbo needs service. I spent over $6k on this upgrade and I have some more pending issues to deal with on a SS income. So I'll see how she performs with the 5th behind before going much farther.

If I were able to do the work myself I would have even gone for a newer more proficient turbo. But I may be needing a new trany in the next couple years. I'll be babying this one along now with the gauges.

[Goneracin]

Originally Posted by delmarrey

Yeah! I considered a 6 blade turbo fan but I figured I'd wait until the turbo needs service. I spent over $6k on this upgrade and I have some more pending issues to deal with on a SS income. So I'll see how she performs with the 5th behind before going much farther.

If I were able to do the work myself I would have even gone for a newer more proficient turbo. But I may be needing a new trany in the next couple years. I'll be babying this one along now with the gauges.

Sounds like a good plan. Just so you know, there is no reason for the turbo to be intimidating. If you can change your oil, you can rebuild the turbo on these trucks.

Glad to see she is running strong, long live the 7.3

[delmarrey]

Originally Posted by Goneracin

Sounds like a good plan. Just so you know, there is no reason for the turbo to be intimidating. If you can change your oil, you can rebuild the turbo on these trucks.

Glad to see she is running strong, long live the 7.3

Thanks. Having time and a place to do the work is my flaw.