Go Back   iRV2 Forums > TRAVEL TRAILER, 5th WHEEL & TRUCK CAMPER FORUMS > Trailer Towing and Tow Vehicles Discussion
Click Here to Login
Join iRV2 Today

Mission Statement: Supporting thoughtful exchange of knowledge, values and experience among RV enthusiasts.
Closed Thread
  This discussion is proudly sponsored by:
Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about their products on iRV2
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 04-12-2013, 12:54 PM   #29
Senior Member
 
Bill Davey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Oswego, NY
Posts: 120
Post #10 on this thread implies that toy haulers have higher pin weights than regular 5th wheel trailers. My actual experience with two different toy haulers is as follows: 2005 Titanium MPRV (40' long) measured pin weight was 2200# with a total trailer weight of 14,500# with the Harley in the back. Towed this trailer with an F350 SRW with the highest available GVWR (11,400#) resulting in 4,100 cargo (pin) capacity. Note that F350's in that year had 4 different available GVWR ratings. Truck and trailer worked very well together.

Current toy hauler is a KZ Stoneridge Sportster (43' long) with measured pin weight of 2,600# against a total trailer weight of 16,000#. This pin weight is with the Harley in the back and is actually about 250# LIGHTER than the posted pin weight on the manufacturer's capacity label. Tow vehicle is a 2012 Ram 3500 DRW Max-tow with cargo (pin) capacity of 4,400# and a GCVWR of 28,300#. Measured actual total weight is 24,500# fully loaded ready to travel. It seems logical that adding weight behind the axles will reduce pin weight, and that is what I've seen in 2 different toy haulers. As expected, the DRW handles the new TH with ease and I would never attempt to tow this new trailer with any SRW truck.
__________________

__________________
Central New York; 2016 Rockwood 2604WS travel trailer
2014 Ram 1500 Laramie Eco Diesel; 2002 Harley Heritage Classic
Bill Davey is offline  
Join the #1 RV Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

iRV2.com RV Community - Are you about to start a new improvement on your RV or need some help with some maintenance? Do you need advice on what products to buy? Or maybe you can give others some advice? No matter where you fit in you'll find that iRV2 is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with other RV owners, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create an RV blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Old 04-12-2013, 02:10 PM   #30
Moderator Emeritus
 
RustyJC's Avatar


 
Texas Boomers Club
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Cypress, Texas USA
Posts: 8,854
That sounds like a nicely matched rig. Congratulations!! I love the performance and creature comforts of the Ram/Cummins in our signature towing our 5th wheel. You're right, a toyhauler with a rear garage will have a heavier pin weight empty than it will with the toys in the garage - it's the seesaw effect of adding weight behind the axles of the 5th wheel.

I'd love to have a toyhauler in some respects as I have a 2007 BMW K1200GT and a 1971 Honda CB750K1 that I'd like to take along with us for some trips. Unfortunately, my wife won't give up her living space for a garage.

Rusty
__________________

__________________
2016 Ram Longhorn 3500 Dually 4x4 CCLB, 385/900 Cummins, Aisin AS69RC, 4.10
2014.5 DRV Mobile Suites 38RSSA #6972
Come join us on a TEXAS BOOMERS rally!
RustyJC is offline  
Old 04-12-2013, 02:20 PM   #31
Senior Member
 
Coaster1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 371
Just my personal experience: When towing a goose neck the weight on the front axle did not change. However, when loading the truck with sand, it changed considerably.
Apparently the load was more equally distributed.
__________________
'92 Gulf Stream Sun Voyager. Tweaked 5.9 Cummins, complete interior makeover (previous owner).
Coaster1 is offline  
Old 04-12-2013, 03:10 PM   #32
Moderator Emeritus
 
RustyJC's Avatar


 
Texas Boomers Club
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Cypress, Texas USA
Posts: 8,854
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coaster1 View Post
Just my personal experience: When towing a goose neck the weight on the front axle did not change.
Understandable, as most gooseneck and 5th wheel hitches place the ball/pin bore within a few inches of the centerline of the rear axle (2" to 4" forward of rear axle centerline is common for 5th wheel hitch recommendations.) Therefore, almost all the pin load will go onto the rear axle.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Coaster1 View Post
However, when loading the truck with sand, it changed considerably. Apparently the load was more equally distributed.
On my Ram (see signature), the rear axle centerline is, to visual appearances, about 2/3 of the way down the bed from the front of the bed. Therefore, filling the bed with sand would reasonably transfer much more weight to the front axle - there's more bed forward of the rear axle than behind it. If the rear axle centerline were centered under the bed, front axle loading should show little change.

Rusty
__________________
2016 Ram Longhorn 3500 Dually 4x4 CCLB, 385/900 Cummins, Aisin AS69RC, 4.10
2014.5 DRV Mobile Suites 38RSSA #6972
Come join us on a TEXAS BOOMERS rally!
RustyJC is offline  
Old 04-12-2013, 07:00 PM   #33
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 1,078
Quote:
Originally Posted by RustyJC View Post
The manufacturers are crystal clear on this. GVWRs are NOT to be exceeded. Statements such as this are the whole point of this thread - self-justification to exceed the manufacturer's ratings on the tow vehicle. If you choose to run over the manufacturer's ratings, that's your choice, but to recommend it as SOP for newbies or everyone else is a whole other matter.

Rusty
DOT is crystal clear as GVWR dosn't determine anything. Gvwr can and is exceeded as 99 percent of working trucks on the road that are hauling weight per dot regs. To say that their simply self justifying shows a lack of education of our truck weight regulations.

Your statement about justification is incorrect as usual. My and most other trucks on the road justification comes from staying within legal weight issue per dot.Your correct on one point though. It is a choice.

A newby or just a RVer should know his trucks legal weights. That way he can make his own mind up if he chooses to use GVWR to figure loads on the trucks rear axles or RAWR to figure loads on the trucks rear axle/tires.
__________________
'03 Dodge 2500 Cummins HO 3.73 NV5600 Jacobs
'98 3500 DRW 454 4x4 4.10 crew cab
'97 Park Avanue RK 28' 2 slides
JIMNLIN is offline  
Old 04-12-2013, 08:23 PM   #34
Moderator Emeritus
 
TXiceman's Avatar


 
Vintage RV Owners Club
Texas Boomers Club
Oklahoma Boomers Club
Ford Super Duty Owner
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Full Time, TX Home Base
Posts: 17,150
Blog Entries: 21
And since when do private RV hauling trucks fall under commercial DOT regulations......DOT regulations are written by politicians and lawyers...not engineers.

ken
__________________
Amateur Radio Operator (KE5DFR)|Full-Time! - 2012 6.7L Ford Crew Cab Dually -2013 HitchHiker Champagne 38RLRSB - Travel with one Standard Schnauzer and one small Timneh African Gray Parrot
TXiceman is offline  
Old 04-12-2013, 09:33 PM   #35
Moderator Emeritus
 
RustyJC's Avatar


 
Texas Boomers Club
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Cypress, Texas USA
Posts: 8,854
I've painfully reread this entire thread. I don't believe I ever mentioned DOT legality (when was the last time you saw an RV in a weigh station, as far as legality is concerned?) Rather, what I said was:

Quote:
Originally Posted by RustyJC
Some of us will try to help the newbie size a truck or RV that will stay within all the respective manufacturer ratings, but at the end of the day, it's the buyer's choice of who he wants to believe and which (if any) ratings he decides that it's OK to exceed.
I still believe it's a disservice to a newbie to encourage him to exceed the GVWR just because of an arcane DOT regulation that only concerns itself with tire ratings and axle loads applied to highways and bridges and has nothing to do with operating the vehicle within the design limits established by the manufacturers.

Rusty
__________________
2016 Ram Longhorn 3500 Dually 4x4 CCLB, 385/900 Cummins, Aisin AS69RC, 4.10
2014.5 DRV Mobile Suites 38RSSA #6972
Come join us on a TEXAS BOOMERS rally!
RustyJC is offline  
Old 04-12-2013, 11:43 PM   #36
CD
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Kingston, Wa. USA
Posts: 1,221
Quote:
Originally Posted by RustyJC View Post
I've painfully reread this entire thread. I don't believe I ever mentioned DOT legality (when was the last time you saw an RV in a weigh station, as far as legality is concerned?) Rather, what I said was:



I still believe it's a disservice to a newbie to encourage him to exceed the GVWR just because of an arcane DOT regulation that only concerns itself with tire ratings and axle loads applied to highways and bridges and has nothing to do with operating the vehicle within the design limits established by the manufacturers.

Rusty
I agree with Rusty.
Here is the reason I made that decision.
About 10 years ago I hauled a load of tractors (2) for a friend. He had loaded them on his 3 axle trailer. The trailer had tire cap of 18K and 18K axle cap and the truck had 18K cap of tires but probably had axle cap of 12K. I was about 5K overloaded (GCVWR). Using Jimnlin's formula I was probably OK. I am pretty sure that the only weight rating that I was over was the GCWR and the hitch rating. About 10 miles down the road I crossed some expansion joints in the highway that were at an angle across the road. I am sure that is what put the trailor in a sway. The pucker factor went right through the roof. With some carefull slowing and hanging on, the sway stopped. I continued on for another 70 miles with out any more problem. I won't do that again. If I had been within ALL the limits, I believe it woudn't have happened. I believe that we owe it to people that don't know or have the experience to give them practcal and usefull info that applys to us with RVs.
__________________
Cliff

'01 3500 Ram QC HO 6sp. BD Exhaust Brake
CD is offline  
Old 04-13-2013, 05:36 PM   #37
Senior Member
 
Franka548's Avatar
 
Freightliner Owners Club
Retired Fire Service RVer's
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: N E Ohio
Posts: 3,459
It seems that the same people are telling the newbies that they don'y have to follow the manufacturers ratings, that everything will be ok. Then there are those that tell them to watch all the ratings and don't exceed them. I lean towards the later myself, my setup is below the ratings for everything but the GCWR which is between 1500 and 2500# over depending on fuel and water loads, It is not that I want to exceed them, but it is what it is. The idea of telling a newbie the correct information is what is important here.
Frank
__________________
05 Alfa Gold 40' Motor Home "Goldie" 03 Malibu Toad towing 4 down
03 Silverado cclb 3500 drw, D/A, Reese 22k hitch
07 Alfa SeeYa Gold 30RL,2 slides,power everything Above for sale PM me for details
Franka548 is offline  
Old 04-14-2013, 07:12 AM   #38
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 1,078
Quote:
Originally Posted by TXiceman View Post
And since when do private RV hauling trucks fall under commercial DOT regulations......DOT regulations are written by politicians and lawyers...not engineers.

ken
If you knew anything about our states/countries weight laws you wouldn't make such a rediculas statement.
All vehicles on the road come under dot axle weights limits. RVs are not exempt.
__________________
'03 Dodge 2500 Cummins HO 3.73 NV5600 Jacobs
'98 3500 DRW 454 4x4 4.10 crew cab
'97 Park Avanue RK 28' 2 slides
JIMNLIN is offline  
Old 04-14-2013, 07:40 AM   #39
Moderator Emeritus
 
RustyJC's Avatar


 
Texas Boomers Club
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Cypress, Texas USA
Posts: 8,854
For those who are unfamiliar with DOT "legality" insofar as weight limits are concerned, here's a brief explanation from the state of Oregon.

Oregon Weight Limits

Where in this document does it say ANYTHING about vehicle capabilities? This document obviously addresses loading applied to roads and bridges, NOT vehicle safety.

Rusty
__________________
2016 Ram Longhorn 3500 Dually 4x4 CCLB, 385/900 Cummins, Aisin AS69RC, 4.10
2014.5 DRV Mobile Suites 38RSSA #6972
Come join us on a TEXAS BOOMERS rally!
RustyJC is offline  
Old 04-14-2013, 07:54 AM   #40
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 1,078
Quote:
I still believe it's a disservice to a newbie to encourage him to exceed the GVWR just because of an arcane DOT regulation that only concerns itself with tire ratings and axle loads applied to highways and bridges and has nothing to do with operating the vehicle within the design limits established by the manufacturers.

Rusty
Just like your buddy if you knew anything about dot laws you would know dots concern is about VEHICLE SAFETY and bridge and highway limits. Our nations bridge and highway limits has nothing to do with how much a 1/2 ton truck can legally carry.

If you had ever bothered to find out what a trucks actual legal weight limits per dot are you would know your 3500 DRW Dodge with a 9350 RAWR which is certified by Dodge cannot be exceeded. 9350 lbs is a long way from bridge or highway limits.

Even a newby deserves to know his trucks legal weight limits which every truck on the road has used since dot regulations became mandatory in the teens and '20s. IMO anyone that owns any type of truck should be required to know.
That way it would eliminate arguing and making uninformed statements that its politicians and lawyers that make dot laws. This shows a ignorance of the procedures and the actual players making those decisions.

JFI for you guys that push GVWR theory to load a trucks rear axle. Some of the newer trucks with these high GVWR are overloading the trucks RAWR.
One poster on another RV web had a F150 with a 7700 GVWR and the 4050 RAWR. He was under GVWR but 150-200 lbs over the trucks 4050 RAWR/P tires. He was actually over his OEM P tire ratings.
This is one fallacy of using GVWR to figure loads on the trucks rear axle.
__________________
'03 Dodge 2500 Cummins HO 3.73 NV5600 Jacobs
'98 3500 DRW 454 4x4 4.10 crew cab
'97 Park Avanue RK 28' 2 slides
JIMNLIN is offline  
Old 04-14-2013, 08:12 AM   #41
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 1,078
Quote:
Originally Posted by RustyJC View Post
For those who are unfamiliar with DOT "legality" insofar as weight limits are concerned, here's a brief explanation from the state of Oregon.

Oregon Weight Limits

Where in this document does it say ANYTHING about vehicle capabilities? This document obviously addresses loading applied to roads and bridges, NOT vehicle safety.

Rusty
Why don't you post a actual Oregon size and weight code. Hell I can find info sheets from just about every state and fed that says that. What you posted is a "MAX" and has nothing to do with trucks on the road with less than 20k axle or 34k tandams or 80k gross.


Oregon
818.010 Maximum allowable weight.
(1) A vehicle exceeds the maximum allowable weight if the loaded weight of an axle or tandem axle is in excess of that determined by the formula in the following table:

Table I

The manufacturer’s side wall tire rating (but not to exceed 600 pounds) x´the sum of the tire widths, in inches, of the wheels of the axle or tandem axles = maximum allowable weight.
(snip)
.................................................. .................................................. .......

If you notice it says the "The manufacturer’s side wall tire rating". This is typical of many state weight regs as the vehicle manufacturers tire ratings are dictated by the truck makers certified GAWRs per the FMVSS. Dot will use the lesser of the GAWR or axle rating.

Some state and provinces wording actually says the vehicle axle ratings.
__________________
'03 Dodge 2500 Cummins HO 3.73 NV5600 Jacobs
'98 3500 DRW 454 4x4 4.10 crew cab
'97 Park Avanue RK 28' 2 slides
JIMNLIN is offline  
Old 04-14-2013, 08:16 AM   #42
Moderator Emeritus
 
RustyJC's Avatar


 
Texas Boomers Club
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Cypress, Texas USA
Posts: 8,854
Ummm....there's far more to vehicle safety than tire load ratings. If that's all there were to it, you have the super singles on a Ford Ranger scenario.

Rusty
__________________

__________________
2016 Ram Longhorn 3500 Dually 4x4 CCLB, 385/900 Cummins, Aisin AS69RC, 4.10
2014.5 DRV Mobile Suites 38RSSA #6972
Come join us on a TEXAS BOOMERS rally!
RustyJC is offline  
Closed Thread



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


» Virginia Campgrounds

Reviews provided by


Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 01:52 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.