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Old 04-14-2013, 08:23 AM   #43
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Originally Posted by JIMNLIN View Post
JFI for you guys that push GVWR theory to load a trucks rear axle. Some of the newer trucks with these high GVWR are overloading the trucks RAWR.
One poster on another RV web had a F150 with a 7700 GVWR and the 4050 RAWR. He was under GVWR but 150-200 lbs over the trucks 4050 RAWR/P tires. He was actually over his OEM P tire ratings.
This is one fallacy of using GVWR to figure loads on the trucks rear axle.
That's actually a major problem with motorhomes. A motorhome with a 12k front and 20k rear axle will have a 32k GVWR, but the only way to hit 32k without overloading an axle is to have the motorhome perfectly balanced, which NEVER happens.

Back to the OP's comment about 250/2500 trucks being overloaded, that's a slightly difference issue. 250/2500 trucks used to max out at 8800 - 4 metric tons - for legal reasons (now, 10k is the max for a 250/2500 for the same reason as some states require a special license over 10k). However, mechanically they are often identical to the 350/3500 models. My '98 Ram 2500 had axle ratings of 4850/6084, with that rear rating being limited due to OEM tires. At a bit over 6000 lbs, its payload by GVWR was about 2800 lbs, but I had 1500 lbs of front GAWR left, and over 3000 lbs on the rear.. As far as frame strength and brakes, it had the exact same frame and brakes as the DRW 3500 (no SRW 3500 in 1998), so arguments about it being able to stop don't apply.
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Old 04-14-2013, 08:32 AM   #44
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Was your 98 Ram 2500 a stick or automatic? If it was an automatic, it had a Dana 70 rear axle. If it was a stick, it had a Dana 80 hybrid (Dana 80 center section, Dana 70 hubs and bearings). The 3500s had pure Dana 80s. So, no, your 2500 didn't have the same capabilities as my 1996 or 2002 Ram 3500 duallies.

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Old 04-14-2013, 08:52 AM   #45
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JIMNLIN.

The manufacturer’s side wall tire rating (but not to exceed 600 pounds) x´the sum of the tire widths, in inches, of the wheels of the axle or tandem axles = maximum allowable weight.

I ususally cannot read these type regs and make any sense of them--could you work an example in numbers of what the above says?
First--the mfgs sidewall ratings--is this what the tire rating is in lbs@psi listed? And what does the "but not to exceed 600 pounds" mean?
Second--tire width? tread width or sidewall to sidewall?

I really am confused on what this rule is trying to say.

Thanks,

Joe
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Old 04-14-2013, 09:02 AM   #46
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Wow, I'm headed down to get me a F150 EcoBoost and stick some H rated tires on the sucker and I can ditch my F350 dually for towing my trailer.

This thread has evolved to beyond being helpful to anyone just getting into trailer towing. How about we just agree to disagree, let the newbie know how to look at the truck manufacturers ratings, and he can make his own decision on what to tow.

Certainly we do not need to tell them that "I have been towing my 40' Teton with my F250 with air springs, twice a year for the past 10 years and I do just fine."

Everyone does not need a DRW or a MDT, but some of us do. RVing i supposed to be fun and not nerve racking.

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Old 04-14-2013, 09:09 AM   #47
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Was your 98 Ram 2500 a stick or automatic? If it was an automatic, it had a Dana 70 rear axle. If it was a stick, it had a Dana 80 hybrid (Dana 80 center section, Dana 70 hubs and bearings). The 3500s had pure Dana 80s. So, no, your 2500 didn't have the same capabilities as my 1996 or 2002 Ram 3500 duallies.

Rusty
I never said it could carry as much weight. I said it had the same frame and brakes, so it would have stopped just as well - better probably because it had wider front tires. I never suggested going past the GAWR and tire ratings, just past the GVWR.

As for my rear axle, it was a Dana 60 because I had a V-8, not a diesel. That's why I had so much free front GAWR, and why my 4x4 Quad Cab short bed weighed a tick over 6k empty.

As for that 600 lbs (government regulations)- that's 600 lbs per inch of tread width. That only really applies to commercial truck tires because most RVs (except the mega bus conversions) don't weight enough for it to be an issue.
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Old 04-14-2013, 09:19 AM   #48
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I never said it could carry as much weight. I said it had the same frame and brakes.....
Per RockAuto, the 1998 Ram 2500 V8 used 13" x 2.5" rear brake shoes; the 1998 Ram 3500 used 13" x 3.5" rear brake shoes.

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Old 04-14-2013, 09:37 AM   #49
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Well, to me, it seems the folks at the IRS moonlight at the FMVSS writing the regs--
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Old 04-14-2013, 12:50 PM   #50
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Wow, I'm headed down to get me a F150 EcoBoost and stick some H rated tires on the sucker and I can ditch my F350 dually for towing my trailer.

This thread has evolved to beyond being helpful to anyone just getting into trailer towing. How about we just agree to disagree, let the newbie know how to look at the truck manufacturers ratings, and he can make his own decision on what to tow.
Ken
No where have I or have any of the regs even hinted we can put H rated tire on a F150 and use it carry weight that your dually can. Please stop spreading mis info.

You make a good point on letting a newbie choose. He can be given a choice to use the truck manufacturers GVWR or his state legal axle weight regs without all the mis informed comments as we see on this forum and especially this thread.
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Old 04-14-2013, 01:07 PM   #51
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I really am confused on what this rule is trying to say.

Thanks,

Joe
Just to add to cwsqbm reply the 600 lbs per inch of tread width applies to a truck/trailer with generally 22.5" semi tires that can be a commercially operated semi truck or a private use semi truck.

The first part that says " The manufacturer’s side wall tire rating". A example would be LT245/75-16 E tires on a 6084 lb RAWR on a GM. As I said above dot will/can/has taken the lessor capacity of the two. So using over size tires gains nothing legally.

Quote:
Well, to me, it seems the folks at the IRS moonlight at the FMVSS writing the regs--
Joe
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Part of the problem here is posters that have no idea what size and weight regs actually say but on every weight thread they have confused the subject with their theory like we see posted above.

Another example is PA vehicle weight regs that say in part ;
(c) Gross weight.--No vehicle or combination shall be driven
with a gross weight in excess of the sum of the allowable axle
weights as set forth in this section, nor shall any vehicle or
combination be driven with a gross weight in excess of the sum
of the manufacturer's rated axle capacities."

In this case the axle ratings. But you gotta' remember the tires are fitted to the trucks axle ratings. Both are tied together per the FMVSS and as I said above dot can take the lessor of the two.
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Old 04-14-2013, 01:21 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JIMNLIN View Post
No where have I or have any of the regs even hinted we can put H rated tire on a F150 and use it carry weight that your dually can. Please stop spreading mis info.

You make a good point on letting a newbie choose. He can be given a choice to use the truck manufacturers GVWR or his state legal axle weight regs without all the mis informed comments as we see on this forum and especially this thread.
Jim, go check the mirror. I am through arguing whether to use Dot tire ratings for establishing a tow rating or the truck manufactures ratings.

Adios,
Ken
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Old 04-14-2013, 02:42 PM   #53
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It is quite clear that some of you have way to much time on your hands, Rusty. Just get out from behind the computer and go out and have some fun.
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Old 04-14-2013, 02:46 PM   #54
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As this thread draws to a close............. I hope the OP found out what he needed to know, a lot of helpful info. here.........
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