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Old 10-17-2019, 01:29 PM   #29
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Just looked at fiver with these specs:
Dry 8155
Payload 1845
GVWR 10000
Hitch weight 1271

So where does the 1,271 lbs hitch weight calculates from if I am supposed to use 20% of off GVWR. Please explain.
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Old 10-17-2019, 02:05 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hans-barak View Post
Just looked at fiver with these specs:
Dry 8155
Payload 1845
GVWR 10000
Hitch weight 1271

So where does the 1,271 lbs hitch weight calculates from if I am supposed to use 20% of off GVWR. Please explain.
That 1271# PIN weight is based on the DRY 5vr weight (8155#)----15.5% Ratio which is low

Published PIN weights are always DRY PIN based on the DRY published weights

5vr with a GVWR of 10,000# will have a WET PIN (loaded up camp ready) of closer to 2200# (22% ratio)




Been asked but you have not posted.....
WHAT truck do you have.....Year etc
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Old 10-17-2019, 02:42 PM   #31
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Ohh well so some guys tow these fivers with trucks like my and other don’t recommend. I have 2018 GMC denali HD 6.6 ft bed so crew cab.
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Old 10-17-2019, 03:03 PM   #32
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Those trucks might look like yours but maybe they are gas engines or 2WD or not as well optioned as your Denali which has all the heavy options that GM offers.

GM trucks in 2020 have now caught up to Ford and Ram.

My 2017 2WD and 6.2 gas engine has a cargo capacity of 3,496 lbs. I test drove a 2018 Ram 2500 6.4 Hemi that had a cargo capacity of 3,300lbs.
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Old 10-17-2019, 03:08 PM   #33
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Yeah I hear you there. I actually had 2017 F250 gas and had 3,400 cargo but when I decided to go GMC diesel, I was surprised to find a drop on cargo being a diesel truck. I always thought diesel ones were like top of line and most wanted on market. Also, I only upgraded becaI didn’t like F250 body look plus was heavy on shocks and uncomfortable ride.
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Old 10-17-2019, 04:24 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by tuffr2 View Post
Those trucks might look like yours but maybe they are gas engines or 2WD or not as well optioned as your Denali which has all the heavy options that GM offers.

GM trucks in 2020 have now caught up to Ford and Ram.

My 2017 2WD and 6.2 gas engine has a cargo capacity of 3,496 lbs. I test drove a 2018 Ram 2500 6.4 Hemi that had a cargo capacity of 3,300lbs.
Or they just dont care. Thats where my money is. Its the same powertrain as a 3500drw so im sure it pulls fine. I cant comment on the suspension or brakes, but its the same motor, trans, and rearend ratio. The only numbers youre legally obligated to follow are axle weights (ive heard tires too) and even still it looks like youre only at about 3300lbs left on the rearend. Not enough for closing in on 3k pin weight. Be sure to check your states vehicle code too to be sure what determines gvwr and gcvwr.
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Old 10-17-2019, 04:30 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by tuffr2 View Post
Those trucks might look like yours but maybe they are gas engines or 2WD or not as well optioned as your Denali which has all the heavy options that GM offers.

GM trucks in 2020 have now caught up to Ford and Ram.

My 2017 2WD and 6.2 gas engine has a cargo capacity of 3,496 lbs. I test drove a 2018 Ram 2500 6.4 Hemi that had a cargo capacity of 3,300lbs.
Or they just dont care. Thats where my money is. Its the same powertrain as a 3500drw so im sure it pulls fine. I cant comment on the suspension or brakes, but its the same motor, trans, and rearend ratio. The only numbers youre legally obligated to follow are axle weights (ive heard tires too) and even still it looks like youre only at about 3300lbs left on the rearend. Not enough for closing in on 3k pin weight. Be sure to check your states vehicle code too to be sure what determines gvwr and gcvwr.
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Old 10-18-2019, 05:40 AM   #36
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I agree, they probably are towing over weight but a slim chance the truck has more cargo capacity

OP - you have a double whammy tow vehicle. It is a GM with lower capacity than Ford or Ram plus it is a loaded Denali trim level which lowers the cargo capacity. There is really no way to tow a 5th wheel without going over the cargo capacity.

So that leaves you with axle and tire capacity like some people use. So that puts you back around 2,800lbs capacity.

If I were you I probably would adopt this philosophy. Not to go over the axle or tire capacity and say poo poo on the cargo capacity plate on your door jam.

Now getting your truck weighed is not as easy as it sounds. The truck stops around me are crazy busy with tractor trailer drivers trying to make a buck. I would go on a Sunday. You will get weights for your drive axles and steer axles. So figure out your axle rating and tire rating.

It will be something like this:

'E' Rated tires each carry 3,200lbs. x 2 tires = 6,400lbs.
Axle rating 6,200lbs. So use the lower number and subtract the drive axle weight from that.

So axle rating 6,200lbs minus drive axle weight of 3,400lbs leaves you with 2,800lbs.

You will need to plug in your actual numbers. Now the best way to put it with my mind set. Do not go over your cargo capacity on your door jam. But definitely do not go over your axle rating or tire rating.

Now, here is a crazy idea. Buy a 2020 GM 3500 and buy that KZ.
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Old 10-18-2019, 07:36 AM   #37
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Ha-ha tuffr2... my simple answer is if I had a budget for 3500, I wouldn’t be here waisting everyone time LoL. I was thinking to go to transfer station (garbage disposal place) and weight the truck since I have some stuff to dispose. But I am confused what I need to with rear axel vs front or entire truck on scale... please elaborate thanks
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Old 10-18-2019, 08:16 AM   #38
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Weigh the rear axle to determine how much capacity you actually have for pin weight, because pin weight will be the limiting factor.

3/4 ton trucks are stickered for 10,000 lb GVWR because in many states anything greater gets hit with commercial registration fees. At the same time, many newer 3/4 tons share a lot of parts with their one ton brethren, with maybe a lighter rear spring pack and different tires, but the same frames, brakes, etc. That being the case, the payload ratings on these trucks are often artificially low.

As mentioned by others, you can't go wrong if you follow the RAWR.
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Old 10-18-2019, 09:01 AM   #39
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Just for example my F-450 with 5th wheel hitch, full fuel, and blocks for the 5th wheel leveling jacks, my limited set of tools and me in the truck weighed at a stone place scale was 9,980 lbs. But that scale did not give me the individual axle weights. To get individual axle weights you need a CAT scale at a truck stop that can weigh all the axles. At a CAT scale my F-450 weighed approx 5,000lbs front axle and 4,000lbs rear axle.

You need to know that rear axle weight.

Here is my CAT scale ticket on my F-250 for example. I know my truck's rear axle weighs 2,920 lbs. I think I have a 6,300lb. capacity rear axle. So 6,300lbs minus 2,920 lbs. equal 3,380 lbs. I can carry 3,380 lbs. of pin weight.

Now my door sticker cargo capacity is 3,496.

So in this case these numbers are very close.

And just an FYI a diesel engine is heavier than a gas engine plus the exhaust system on a diesel truck adds even more weight. All the pollution control stuff on a diesel truck probably adds 250lbs to it that a gas truck does not have. I would be interested in knowing how much your truck does weigh so if you could post back after you get it weighed that would be great.

The total weight of your truck will be around 8,500lbs. While you can see the weight of my truck is exactly 6,660 lbs with me in it. The weight ticket is from June 2018 and I know my truck is a bit heavier now as I added more tools.Click image for larger version

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Old 10-18-2019, 09:07 AM   #40
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Ok so I have to find a cat scale and get this figured out. Just doesn’t make sense that manufacturers would have done such so we can gauge off something vs needing to figure it out on our own. Maybe a transfer station will be kind enough to weight separate as I drive on lol
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Old 10-18-2019, 09:24 AM   #41
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Ok so I have to find a cat scale and get this figured out. Just doesn’t make sense that manufacturers would have done such so we can gauge off something vs needing to figure it out on our own. Maybe a transfer station will be kind enough to weight separate as I drive on lol
The manufacturers REALLY dont want you going over their ratings because they have no way to prove if you did or didnt so they try to scare you into compliance. One of our dodges had to have the rearend replaced at work amd the dealer tried really hard to get the driver to admit that he was over on the rawr. They can save a bunch of money potentially if they can get you to voluntarily void your own warranty.
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Old 10-18-2019, 11:58 AM   #42
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GM is making a big step in the right direction as on their 2019 1500 series trucks they list a lot more trailer towing information. Not sure if they are doing that on their heavier trucks.
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