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Old 07-27-2015, 02:19 PM   #15
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Getting tougher... salesman told her GVWR on a fiver has nothing to do with how a truck will pull it, only empty weight... and that because I have a diesel my 2500 would pull anything on his lot...
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Old 07-27-2015, 02:34 PM   #16
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Inform the salesman that if he lies again you will shop elsewhere! And that you don't appreciate unsafe misinformation being fed to try to get a sale.
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Old 07-27-2015, 04:00 PM   #17
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Ugh.. I love my wife...

Now she is talking to the salesman about a beautiful 5er... excepts is pushing 14k...
So tell her nicely, "Sweetheart, we'll get whichever trailer you want, but if you want one that's too heavy for our 2500, then we'll have to plan on upgrading the 2500 to more truck. A 14,000 pound 5er requires a 3500 dually tow vehicle. Our diesel pickup will pull that 14,000-pound trailer without much sweat, but the suspension and brakes will be overloaded.. I love you too much to risk towing with an overloaded tow vehicle."

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Getting tougher... salesman told her GVWR on a fiver has nothing to do with how a truck will pull it, only empty weight... and that because I have a diesel my 2500 would pull anything on his lot.
Little white lie. He's right that your Cummins powertrain would have no problem in pulling that trailer. But he's dead wrong in saying that the GVWR (and thus the payload capacity) of the truck or trailer is not important.

My older Ford diesel was rated to tow a 5er that grossed over 13,000 pounds, But I was overloaded by a few hundred pounds over the GVWR of the F-250 with my small 5er that had GVWR of only 7,900 pounds.

Nobody tows a dry camper. The GVWR of the camper is the max it can weigh when wet and loaded on the road. The weight of the trailer translates directly to hitch weight, since about 20% of the trailer weight will be "on the kingpin" and thus adding to the gross vehicle weight of the tow vehicle. Granted, you may not load the trailer down to the GVWR, but you will definitely load it a lot heavier than the advertised "dry" weight of the trailer. So when matching 5er to tow vehicle, use 20% of the GVWR of the 5er as the likely pin weight of the trailer. Then be sure your tow vehicle can handle that much pin weight without exceeding the GVWR of the tow vehicle.
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Old 07-27-2015, 04:04 PM   #18
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LOL.. Smokey I wish I would have read your message a little earlier. I suspect if I had followed your advice she might be still talking to me
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Old 07-27-2015, 04:44 PM   #19
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There are two weight ratings that are important when matching trailer to tow vehicle.

1] The GCWR (gross combined weight rating) minus the wet and loaded weight of the tow vehicle (TV) gives you the actual tow rating of the TV. That actual tow rating will be a lot less than the manufacturer's tow rating. The actual tow rating tells you the max weight of any trailer you can pull without overheating anything in the drivetrain and without being the slowpoke holding up traffic on hills and mountain passes.

2] The GVWR (gross vehicle weight rating) tells you the max weight you can carry on the truck tires without exceeding the weight limits of suspension, frame, axles, tires and wheels of the TV.

Most TVs can PULL a lot more weight than they can HAUL the hitch weight of that trailer along with the normal weight of passengers and other cargo in the TV.

Load the 2500 up with everyone and everything that will be in it when towing - including the trailer hitch. Go to a truckstop that has a CAT scale and fill up with gas. Weigh the wet and loaded TV. Subtract the weight of the wet and loaded TV from the GVWR of the TV. The answer is the max hitch weight you can haul without being overloaded. Divide that max hitch by 0.20 (20%) and the answer is the max GVWR of any 5er you want to consider towing with that TV.

My DW understands that basic math. I'll bet yours will too.
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Old 07-27-2015, 10:36 PM   #20
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Yep.. my cat scale weights above then mean my max fifth wheel weight is 6,700 lbs
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Old 07-28-2015, 12:38 PM   #21
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Yep.. my cat scale weights above then mean my max fifth wheel weight is 6,700 lbs

Your 2500 can safely tow way more than that.

Your numbers on that Sundance XLT 298BHS looked perfect to me
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Old 07-28-2015, 01:03 PM   #22
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I totally agree fordguy... it's just absurd the way these trucks are rated!
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Old 07-29-2015, 09:25 AM   #23
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Your 2500 can safely tow way more than that.
But not without being overloaded over the payload capacity of the tow vehicle.
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Old 07-29-2015, 10:21 AM   #24
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just saying ...here is my wifes answer to weghit ratio ..i want this camper thats it ...now go get a bigger trk ..thank goodness with both have dually to pull our raptor 395 .that suck is heavy comparied to our old old ..lol should just bought a old nascar trailer and peterbulit ...as she is loading the toy hauler im sneaking crap out the back door ...
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Old 07-29-2015, 01:50 PM   #25
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But not without being overloaded over the payload capacity of the tow vehicle.

Maybe over the silly door sticker but not over the trucks actual capacity.
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Old 07-29-2015, 02:25 PM   #26
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Maybe over the silly door sticker but not over the trucks actual capacity.
So you are a chassis engineer certified by your state as a Professional Engineer (PE)? No, you're not, else you wouldn't use such terms as "silly door sticker". The weight capacity on the door sticker was determined by PEs. You can rely on it.
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Old 07-29-2015, 02:40 PM   #27
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So you are a chassis engineer certified by your state as a Professional Engineer (PE)? No, you're not, else you wouldn't use such terms as "silly door sticker". The weight capacity on the door sticker was determined by PEs. You can rely on it.
Thank you Smokey....

I absolutely agree with you that the door stickers and stated capacity's are very important, and certainly were determined by folks with more engineering experience than I have (although I am also an Engineer)... I do try very hard to stay within those guidelines.

My point was that given my CAT scale weight on the fully loaded truck with family loaded as if we were going camping of 7,660 lbs, I struggle with how this truck could be capped at 9000 lbs GVW...

I am not trying to convince anyone (myself included) to tow over the trucks ratings, I am just trying to understand how the numbers are derived?... How the hell could you ever get a GCWR of 20,000lbs when I am limited to a 6,700lb fifth wheel or gooseneck due to pin weight? Why did they bother to put a 6,000 lb axle under it when the loaded truck rear axle weight is only 2,960 lbs, plus max pin weight of 1340 for a total of 4300 lbs?

Maybe I shouldn't care, but my engineering brain thinks too logically. When I do a design, I match all the pieces to worst case. So if the "beam" is in the worst case subjected to 10 tons of force, I would make sure the fasteners could hold atleast 10 tons, not rate the hole beam at 6 tons because I put smaller bolts in the damn thing. Nor would I use a 10 ton beam if the load was only going to be 5 ton... See where I am coming from?

I am not trying to argue, I just don't understand where these tow "ratings" come from and how they can be so disconnected from each other.
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Old 07-30-2015, 12:39 AM   #28
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Getting back to the subject at hand: Grand Design has the Reflection line of fifth wheels that your truck can tow. I'm towing a 11K/2K dry weight 323BHS with 4 sliders with my 3/4 ton diesel, and it does just fine. They have a few shorter and lighter models, too.
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