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Old 09-03-2012, 10:43 AM   #29
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What makes these two different if everything else on the two lines are the same?
My guess is the one with the higher numbers has the Max Tow pkg, and the other does not. The max tow pkg adds another tranny cooler. Note that the difference is only in GCWR, plus the max trailer weight which is based on the GCWR. So when they add more tranny cooling, they can raise the weight of a trailer you can tow without burning up something in the drivetrain when towing at a reasonable speed up a normal mountain grade.

http://www.ramtrucks.com/hostc/bmo/C...2TK/options.do

2012 Max Tow Pkg adds $700 to the MSRP of the truck and the only thing they tell you it includes is:


Option Details
  • Dual Transmission Oil Cooler
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Old 09-03-2012, 02:20 PM   #30
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The axle only approach does not consider the limits that the truck manufacturer places on the chassis frame or suspension.
The axles are indeed a important part of the Dodge trucks suspension.

The truck makers design and engineer manufacture and test the trucks frame and suspension to match. One compliments the other.

The Dodge axles are part of the trucks 9350 RAWR which is a certified Dodge rating (not the axle maker) and is part of the trucks rear suspension which includes the load-carrying capacity of an individual axle and wheel assembly.
It represents the load that may be steadily sustained by the components in the system; i.e., tires, rims, hubs, bearing, axles, brakes, suspension, sub frame, etc. with the GAWR limited by the components with the lowest working rating".

TX as all states may use the trucks makers GVWR and the trailer makers GVWR for declaring a a GCW.
GCWR In fact isn't on the trucks certification placard or on the truck anywhere nor is it a requirement to be on the truck.
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Old 09-03-2012, 08:42 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by SmokeyWren

My guess is the one with the higher numbers has the Max Tow pkg, and the other does not. The max tow pkg adds another tranny cooler. Note that the difference is only in GCWR, plus the max trailer weight which is based on the GCWR. So when they add more tranny cooling, they can raise the weight of a trailer you can tow without burning up something in the drivetrain when towing at a reasonable speed up a normal mountain grade.

http://www.ramtrucks.com/hostc/bmo/C...2TK/options.do

2012 Max Tow Pkg adds $700 to the MSRP of the truck and the only thing they tell you it includes is:

Option Details
[*]Dual Transmission Oil Cooler
You know Smokey, that thought crossed my mind after I posted this, because there is only one line for the 4:10 gear option.
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Old 09-03-2012, 08:56 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by JIMNLIN
The axles are indeed a important part of the Dodge trucks suspension.

The truck makers design and engineer manufacture and test the trucks frame and suspension to match. One compliments the other.

The Dodge axles are part of the trucks 9350 RAWR which is a certified Dodge rating (not the axle maker) and is part of the trucks rear suspension which includes the load-carrying capacity of an individual axle and wheel assembly.
It represents the load that may be steadily sustained by the components in the system; i.e., tires, rims, hubs, bearing, axles, brakes, suspension, sub frame, etc. with the GAWR limited by the components with the lowest working rating".

TX as all states may use the trucks makers GVWR and the trailer makers GVWR for declaring a a GCW.
GCWR In fact isn't on the trucks certification placard or on the truck anywhere nor is it a requirement to be on the truck.
I had a feeling the axles played a key role in this, due to the unique situation that the connection between 5ver or gooseneck has to the truck, from a structural standpoint (I teach technology and engineering at a community college). As opposed to conventional TT connection where payload may come into play. I mean why would the 5th wheel hitch be located in that area if not to exploit the structural system as you described, JIMNLIN.
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Old 09-04-2012, 02:44 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by SmokeyWren

My guess is the one with the higher numbers has the Max Tow pkg, and the other does not. The max tow pkg adds another tranny cooler. Note that the difference is only in GCWR, plus the max trailer weight which is based on the GCWR. So when they add more tranny cooling, they can raise the weight of a trailer you can tow without burning up something in the drivetrain when towing at a reasonable speed up a normal mountain grade.

http://www.ramtrucks.com/hostc/bmo/C...2TK/options.do

2012 Max Tow Pkg adds $700 to the MSRP of the truck and the only thing they tell you it includes is:

Option Details
[*]Dual Transmission Oil Cooler
Confirmed it's the Max Tow, I saw it on the sticker of one of the trucks I was looking at. "Max Tow Package 4:10 Axle Ratio."
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Old 09-04-2012, 08:40 PM   #34
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Confirmed it's the Max Tow, I saw it on the sticker of one of the trucks I was looking at. "Max Tow Package 4:10 Axle Ratio."
GCWR increases with the 4.10 axle to 28,500 pounds. But that doesn't answer the question of why does the same truck with 3.73 axle have either 21,000 or 25,000 GCWR? I suspect it's the Max Tow Pkg, but with the 3.73 axle ratio.

Lariat 4x4 DRW
Engine...................tranny.................ax le. GCWR

6.7L 24V Turbo Diesel (ETJ) A6 68RFE 6 sp AUTO (DG7) 3.73 .. 21,000

6.7L 24V Turbo Diesel (ETJ) A6 68RFE 6 sp AUTO (DG7) 3.73 .. 25,000

6.7L 24V Turbo Diesel (ETJ) A6 68RFE 6 sp AUTO (DG7) 4.10 ... 28,500
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Old 09-05-2012, 08:24 AM   #35
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Originally Posted by SmokeyWren

GCWR increases with the 4.10 axle to 28,500 pounds. But that doesn't answer the question of why does the same truck with 3.73 axle have either 21,000 or 25,000 GCWR? I suspect it's the Max Tow Pkg, but with the 3.73 axle ratio.

Lariat 4x4 DRW
Engine...................tranny.................ax le. GCWR

6.7L 24V Turbo Diesel (ETJ) A6 68RFE 6 sp AUTO (DG7) 3.73 .. 21,000

6.7L 24V Turbo Diesel (ETJ) A6 68RFE 6 sp AUTO (DG7) 3.73 .. 25,000

6.7L 24V Turbo Diesel (ETJ) A6 68RFE 6 sp AUTO (DG7) 4.10 ... 28,500
Correct. That what I took the literature as. It's too bad they don't specify this more clearly, because someone without any knowledge of how this works could ultimately buy the wrong truck. There are some ( not necessarily all) dealers who would not make this distinction either.

It pays to do research.
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Old 09-05-2012, 10:02 AM   #36
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If all else is the same other than the rear end ratio....
then that infers the limiting factor is the engine's power...
not the frame, not the brakes, not the axles ---- very odd

me suspects there's something else different in that the 4.10 includes a 'package' of changes....
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Old 09-05-2012, 01:57 PM   #37
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If all else is the same other than the rear end ratio....
then that infers the limiting factor is the engine's power...
not the frame, not the brakes, not the axles ---- very odd

me suspects there's something else different in that the 4.10 includes a 'package' of changes....
No the limiting factor is not engine power.
You need to understand what the 4:10 gear ratio offers. This gear ratio allows for the load to be started more efficiently with less strain on the drive line components than a gear ratio of 3:73 or 3:54, when towing heavy. Like the C&C model of tuck that offers the 6.7L Cummins with less HP and engine torque than the pick-up truck does and the Asian 6spd transmission. The truck offers a 4:88 gear ratio with the highest tow rating of 22,200 LBS and GCVW of 30,000 LBS of any Ram truck. The 4:10 and 4:44 gear ratio offer less in the tow ratings and GCVW for these C&C trucks when towing heavy just like the pick-up trucks do. It is all about drive line efficiency and wear and tear on the truck.
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Old 10-11-2012, 11:39 PM   #38
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Great Posts!!! I actually learned something today! LOL!
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Old 10-12-2012, 05:27 AM   #39
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If you check the Ram literature when the Max Tow package was announced, there were a number of changes. From my memory:

Rear axle - beefier pinion gear support, finned aluminum cover for improved cooling, 4.10 ratio.


Transmission - different (beefier) torque converter, additional transmission cooler.


There may have been some others that I can't think of right now, but the Max Tow was pretty much a front-to-back upgrade to handle the higher GCWR.

In the case of the Ram, the manufacturer recently added the 3.73 gears as an option for the Max Tow package. The 21,000 GCWR rating with 3.73s was non-Max Tow; the 25,000 GCWR is a Max Tow with 3.73s.


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Old 10-12-2012, 09:02 AM   #40
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No the limiting factor is not engine power.
You need to understand what the 4:10 gear ratio offers. This gear ratio allows for the load to be started more efficiently with less strain on the drive line components than a gear ratio of 3:73 or 3:54, when towing heavy. Like the C&C model of tuck that offers the 6.7L Cummins with less HP and engine torque than the pick-up truck does and the Asian 6spd transmission. The truck offers a 4:88 gear ratio with the highest tow rating of 22,200 LBS and GCVW of 30,000 LBS of any Ram truck. The 4:10 and 4:44 gear ratio offer less in the tow ratings and GCVW for these C&C trucks when towing heavy just like the pick-up trucks do. It is all about drive line efficiency and wear and tear on the truck.
Jim W.
You mention Asian 6 Speed transmission. That's a red flag. I have also heard stories about the 6 speed not living up to the task. Has anyone had opinions or experience about this?
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Old 10-12-2012, 09:12 AM   #41
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You mention Asian 6 Speed transmission. That's a red flag. I have also heard stories about the 6 speed not living up to the task. Has anyone had opinions or experience about this?
I would recommend you go to the TurboDiesel Register forums and look around in the 3rd and 4th generation engine and drivetrain forums and get actual firsthand user experience. The Aisin 6-speed automatic is used in the C&C trucks because it has a power takeoff (PTO) that's frequently used in commercial applications; the 68RFE 6-speed automatics used in the pickups doesn't have the PTO feature.

Both transmissions have been very reliable and provide good service, but don't take my word for it. Go to the TDR forums and see for yourself.

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Old 10-12-2012, 12:59 PM   #42
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You mention Asian 6 Speed transmission. That's a red flag. I have also heard stories about the 6 speed not living up to the task. Has anyone had opinions or experience about this?
IMO you mean the Aisin AS68RC auto tranny that comes in the 3500/4500/5500 cab a chassis models.

There were issues with odd shifting patterns which many owners found out the truck had the wrong shift code for the rear axle being used. A flash fixed the issue.

Looking in on LTL haulers webs show the Aisin tranny is very popular with these folks operating in the 26k-45k combined ranges.
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