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Old 08-26-2012, 06:47 PM   #1
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Ram 3500 SB DRW 5th Wheel Capacity

Does anybody know what the 5ver trailering capacity is for a 3500 Cummins RAM short bed DRW is?? NOT long bed.

The Towing specs for Dodge gives maximum trailering, but is THAT 5th wheel or TT?

Why can't they make the same distinction as GM does when they give both trailering towing and 5th wheel towing?

Someone please give me this spec if they have it.

I've combed the internet looking for this rating and cannot find it. Very frustrating!!!
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Old 08-26-2012, 09:21 PM   #2
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Depends on the trucks year model/manual vs auto/gear ratio/2wd vs 4wd/crew cab or Mega cab or regular cab.

The Dodge Body Builders guide shows weights for GN/5th wheel trailers.

Note #4 says;
A fifthwheel
or gooseneck hitch is required for trailers over 12,000 pounds.
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Old 08-26-2012, 10:20 PM   #3
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I'm just looking for a chart like GM's. If I can't find any info regarding this, I'm crossing the truck off of my list. It's ridiculous that a truck manufacturer cannot supply information as distinctive and simple as this.

Fifth wheel trailering short bed, DRW.
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Old 08-27-2012, 04:28 AM   #4
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All the info you want is available HERE.

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Old 08-27-2012, 08:28 AM   #5
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This is what I posted in the Keystone forum that you were you asked the same question.
Ram does not specify this information, since the effects on the truck between a TT or 5er should be the same. My reasoning is a properly set-up weight distribution hitch with sway control for a TT will have the same effect as a 5er hitch on the truck. The load will be applied evenly to the front and rear axles and the frame. As long as you do not exceed the GCVW of 26,000 LBS and max trailer weight of 18,350 lbs for the 4:10 differential and Max tow package. Other max trailer weights could apply to your choice of vehicle and trim level. I have chosen just one of many that are listed for an example.

You might be able to do more research on this subject on Pick-ups Trucks.Com see link attached.
http://news.pickuptrucks.com/2012/06...for-j2807.html


Jim W.
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Old 08-27-2012, 08:32 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimcumminsw View Post
My reasoning is a properly set-up weight distribution hitch with sway control for a TT will have the same effect as a 5er hitch on the truck. The load will be applied evenly to the front and rear axles and the frame. As long as you do not exceed the GCVW of 26,000 LBS and max trailer weight of 18,350 lbs for the 4:10 differential and Max tow package.
The Ram engineers are quite aware of weight distributing hitches. With that knowledge, they state that trailers weighing over 12,000 lbs require either a gooseneck or 5th wheel hitch.

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Old 08-27-2012, 11:01 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RustyJC View Post
The Ram engineers are quite aware of weight distributing hitches. With that knowledge, they state that trailers weighing over 12,000 lbs require either a gooseneck or 5th wheel hitch.
Ford says the same thing on many of their diesel-powered pickups, but only because of the limitations of the factory receiver. Most factory receivers are rated up to 12,000 pounds with a weight distributing hitch. So the receiver is the limiter. If you replace the factory receiver with a Class 5 receiver such as a Reese Titan, which has a weight limit a lot higher than 12,000 pounds, then you can tow the same weight TT as 5er.

Quote:
Originally Posted by datedd
I'm just looking for a chart like GM's. If I can't find any info regarding this, I'm crossing the truck off of my list.
You're looking for the magic bullet, and there is no such thing. The GM and Ford towing guides are very misleading and are no more useful than the Dodge towing guide. Their tow ratings are all overstated, and some dangerously so. For example, my Ford diesel had a tow rating over 13,000 pounds, but my 5er that grossed only 8,000 pounds overloaded the tow vehicle over the GVWR of the tow vehicle. So your best bet is to ignore the factory tow ratings, whether your truck is a GM, Ford or Dodge, and compute your own realistic tow ratings.

The tow ratings are not accurate, but the GCWR and GVWR of the tow vehicle are hard limits. So use the GCWR and GVWR of your Dodge to compute more realistic tow ratings.

The simple tow rating - the one used by the factory - is GCWR minus weight of the wet and loaded truck. But the factory definition of wet and loaded is a truck with no options and only a skinny driver in the truck. But the simple tow rating does not consider hitch weight limitations. The hitch weight limitation is GVWR minus weight of the wet and loaded truck. So figure both and use the one that results in the lightest trailer.

The factory tow ratings assume a tow vehicle with no options and with no payload in the truck except a skinny driver. But nobody tows that way, so the tow ratings are misleading. Plus they do not consider hitch weight, and hitch weight is often the limiter on SRW pickups.

If the trailer is a TT and the most trailer weight you can tow is more than the weight rating of your receiver, then reduce the max TT weight you can tow to the max weight your receiver is rated to tow. Or else replace the receiver with one that has more weight capacity.

Example: A one-ton dually wet and loaded for towing will weigh about 8,500 to 9,000 pounds. To be conservative, subtract 9,000 pounds from both the GCWR and GVWR. That will give you max trailer weight without exceeding the GCWR of the tow vehicle, and max hitch weight without exceeding the GVWR of the tow vehicle.

Convert the max hitch weight of a TT by dividing it by 0.12 (12%) to get approximately the max TT weight you can tow without exceeding the GVWR of the tow vehicle. Actual wet and loaded TT hitch weights can vary from slightly over 10% to slightly over 15%, but most will be around 12%. Again, compare the max hitch and trailer weights to the weight capacity of your receiver, and do not exceed the weight capacity of your receiver.

Ignore the hitch weights in the specs of trailers. those are dry weight, and are not realistic. Compute your own hitch weight as 12% of the GVWR of TTs and 20% of the GVWR of 5ers.

Convert the max hitch weight of a 5er by dividing it by 0.2 (20%) to get approximately the max 5er weight you can tow without exceeding the GVWR of the tow vehicle. Actual wet and loaded 5er hitch weights can vary from slightly over 15% to slightly over 24%, but most will be around 17% to 20%. Luxury 5rs such as Travel Supreme often have hitch weight of around 24%, so if you are estimating hitch weight for a luxury 5er use 24% instead of 20%.

Another example: A 2012 Ford F-350 4x4 CrewCab dually with diesel engine has a GCWR of 30,000 pounds and a 5er tow rating of 21,500, or a TT tow rating of 17,500. The receiver is rated 17,500 with a weight-distributing hitch, so that's why the TT tow rating is less than the 5er tow rating. I don't know of an aftermarket receiver rated for more than 17,500, so in that example the dually can tow a heavier 5er than TT because of hitch limitions. Of course, the 5er hitch would have to be rated for at least 21,500 pounds, so the typical aftermarket 5er hitch rated for less than 21.5k would not do. But Ford offers an installed Reese Elite 25k hitch as a factory option, so that would be a good option to include in your dually.
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Old 08-27-2012, 11:11 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SmokeyWren View Post
Ford says the same thing on many of their diesel-powered pickups, but only because of the limitations of the factory receiver. Most factory receivers are rated up to 12,000 pounds with a weight distributing hitch. So the receiver is the limiter.
There are a lot of assumptions in this statement. Yes, the factory receiver is rated at 12,000 lbs, but that doesn't mean that there aren't other limitations - for example, the strength and fatigue resistance of the rear section of the hydroformed frame on the Ram to which the receiver attaches. Unless one knows the next design weak link, it does NOT necessarily follow that by merely replacing the receiver one can tow the same weight bumper-pull trailer as a gooseneck or 5th wheel trailer.

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Old 08-27-2012, 11:20 AM   #9
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As a point of reference, the dually in my signature, wet and laoded with two people on board and full fuel is 8810#. It has a GVWR or 13,300# and a GCWR of 30,000#.
So I can pull a 5er that has a GVW of 21190# and a pin/hitch weight of 4490#.

I do not think I ever want to go there with my truck though.

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Old 08-28-2012, 12:57 AM   #10
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Thank you for your replies and doing the math. It all is starting to make sense now and I'm learning the basics from the best.

"grasshopper"
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Old 08-29-2012, 01:35 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TXiceman View Post
As a point of reference, the dually in my signature, wet and laoded with two people on board and full fuel is 8810#. It has a GVWR or 13,300# and a GCWR of 30,000#.
So I can pull a 5er that has a GVW of 21190# and a pin/hitch weight of 4490#.


Ken
Exactly, or as plugged into the formula:

Cargo capacity = GCWR minus the weight of the loaded truck.

GVWR 30000 - 13300 = 16700 tow capacity

RV weight 21190 - pin weight of 4490 (which is added to the truck weight) = 16700 tow capacity
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Old 08-30-2012, 12:46 AM   #12
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This REALLY helps. Thanks a million!
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Old 08-30-2012, 07:26 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hooverbill View Post
Exactly, or as plugged into the formula:

Cargo capacity = GCWR minus the weight of the loaded truck.

GVWR 30000 - 13300 = 16700 tow capacity

RV weight 21190 - pin weight of 4490 (which is added to the truck weight) = 16700 tow capacity

Hooverbill,

GCWR is Gross Combined Weight rating....not Cargo.

GCWR - loaded truck = Max loaded trailer weight.

GVWR - loaded truck = Pin weight of the truck cargo capacity.

This is why you have to look at BOTH numbers.

If you are laoded to the thrusks GVWR, you can only tow
GCWR - GVWR = 30,000 - 13300 =16,700#

But by not being over or at GVWR on the truck, that ups the towing capacity.

GCWR is the maximum loaded weight of the truck and trailer together.

GVWR is the maximum loaded truck weight on it's own two axles.

But you also have to look at the truck GAWR ot Gross Axle Weight Ratings and make sure you do not exceed either axle limits.

Ken
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Old 08-30-2012, 07:44 AM   #14
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Confirming the formulas that Ken posted, let's plug his numbers into them and work through them:

Truck's GCWR - loaded truck weight = maximum loaded total trailer weight (includes pin weight and trailer axle weight)

30,000 lbs - 8,810 lbs = 21,190 lbs maximum loaded total trailer weight


Truck's GVWR - loaded truck weight = maximum loaded trailer pin/hitch weight

13,300 lbs - 8,810 lbs = 4,490 lbs maximum loaded trailer pin/hitch weight

Those are the working numbers that Ken could use if he were out shopping for a new 5th wheel. To stay within the truck manufacturer's ratings, he would look for a 5th wheel with a GVWR of no more than 21,190 lbs and a LOADED (not brochure, shipping or dry) pin weight of no more than 4,490 lbs.


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