RAWR vs. Payload

[Gordon Dewald]

Originally Posted by Dasmoeturhead

I was reading the Ram manual today, and it says in Bold Lettering; do not go over the weight specifications that are on the door lable. That's there way out I guess.

IMO it is there way of giving us some limits of what we expect a vehicle to do. Otherwise someone will figure out a way to put 22.5" duals on the back of their 2500 and try to load the rig to 20,000 lbs. And then sue when the back end collapses.

[Cummins12V98]

Originally Posted by Dasmoeturhead

I was reading the Ram manual today, and it says in Bold Lettering; do not go over the weight specifications that are on the door lable. That's there way out I guess.

Correct, that's their "Disclaimer".

The RAM 3500 and Ford 450 have very similar tow and axle ratings. BTW they are both SAE J2708 compliant.

[genxrainman]

Originally Posted by Gordon Dewald

IMO it is there way of giving us some limits of what we expect a vehicle to do. Otherwise someone will figure out a way to put 22.5" duals on the back of their 2500 and try to load the rig to 20,000 lbs. And then sue when the back end collapses.

Like this......

[JIMNLIN]

Axle weight rating is only one of many considerations. How strong are the brakes, how stiff is the suspension, how thick are the swaybars, what gears are you running, how strong are the wheels? Again, you need to understand the lowest limiting factor (or combination of factors).

Brakes/suspension/wheels are part of the GAWR package.

example;
A newer gen 3500 DRW Ram with a 9750 RAWR and a 6000 FAWR has 15750 lb of braking/wheel and suspension capacity at a minimum.

The truck makers may well use the sum of the FAWR/RAWR as the trucks GVWR.
Fords super duty body builder spec shows this in their notes on each page where they list each trucks FAWR/RAWR/GVWR/payloads/truck description/etc.

Ford says;

note# 4) Gross Axle Weight Rating is determined by the rated capacity of the minimum component of the axle system (axle, computer-selected springs, wheels, tires) of a specific vehicle. Front and rear GAWRs will, in all cases, sum to a number equal to or greater than the GVWR for the particular vehicle. (snip)

Gears.... as in gear ratio don't carry weight. Now the size of the rear axle such as a 10.5 " AAM vs the 11.5" AAM can change a truck makers axle rating.

Swaybars....... the truck may have the same payload with or without a swaybar but may be included in say part of say a max tow package or a Z71 package/off road/other performance packages.

[Cummins12V98]

Thanks for posting this!

"A newer gen 3500 DRW Ram with a 9750 RAWR and a 6000 FAWR has 15750 lb of braking/wheel and suspension capacity at a minimum"

The above is an example of why "I" don't worry about 15K sitting on my 6 tires with each axle still below MFG ratings. In the 13 and newer RAM 3500 Dually's the 14K is just a number.

[justafordguy]

Originally Posted by Cummins12V98

Thanks for posting this!

"A newer gen 3500 DRW Ram with a 9750 RAWR and a 6000 FAWR has 15750 lb of braking/wheel and suspension capacity at a minimum"

The above is an example of why "I" don't worry about 15K sitting on my 6 tires with each axle still below MFG ratings. In the 13 and newer RAM 3500 Dually's the 14K is just a number.

I agree 100%, but I also think that all of the ratings are just numbers and not a true representation of these trucks actual capabilities.

[FastEagle]

The gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR), or gross vehicle mass (GVM) is the maximum operating weight/mass of a vehicle as specified by the manufacturer including the vehicle's chassis, body, engine, engine fluids, fuel, accessories, driver, passengers and cargo but excluding that of any trailers.

[FastEagle]

Here is a CDN document about GVWR in BC.

http://www.cvse.ca/references_public...82003)GVWR.pdf

[JIMNLIN]

The CDN clicky is a info sheet similar to NHTSA guidlines we see posted around RV websites many times.
Down at the bottom of the CDN guideline it says;
**Information on this Info sheet is subject to change without notice. In the event of conflict with this Info Sheet and the Motor Vehicle Act and Regulations, the Acts and Regulations shall apply.**

Looking at Motor Vehicle Act Regulations under "weight scales" says ....
* The gross weight of any vehicle or combination of vehicles shall be the sum of the individual gross axle weights of all the axles of the vehicle or combination of vehicles. *

Fits right in with Fords body builders specs note #4 saying (my reply above) (snipped)
"Front and rear GAWRs will, in all cases, sum to a number equal to or greater than the GVWR for the particular vehicle."

Our truck manufactures may choose any GVWR they want up to the sum of the GAWRs.

[FastEagle]

I don't understand why people will dispute official statements like the one below.

"GVWR represents manufacturer’s maximum allowable weight for a fully loaded vehicle. This includes the vehicle weight, maximum cargo and passengers. The manufacturer establishes the GVWR based on considerable load-carrying criteria, including, but not limited to, axle capacity, wheel and tire combination, frame strength, and suspension components. A truck’s GVWR is usually listed on a sticker in the doorjamb and in the owner’s manual. Remember, GVWR changes considerably across a vehicle’s lineup. A 4x2 regular cab/standard bed with a V-6 will have a different GVWR from a V-8-powered 4x4 crew cab/long bed."

[SmokeyWren]

Originally Posted by FastEagle

[SIZE=3]I don't understand why people will dispute official statements like the one below.

Sure you do. Some folks want to tow a heavier trailer than the GVWR of their tow vehicle will allow. But they don't want to spend the money required to get an adequate tow vehicle.

[JIMNLIN]

Maybe some folks know we can get say a F350 SRW with a 10000 GVWR or a 11200 GVWR in the exact same truck specs. So why would a truck maker put two different GVWR on the same truck.
GVWR simply isn't the holy grail as some would have us believe.

Or some folks may know a vehicle manufacturer may choose any GVWR they want up to the sum of the GAWRs for any particular vehicle.

Or some folks know GVWR based payloads can over load a truck RAWR such as a 3300 lb payload in the bed of a F150 will overload its RAWR.

Which leads us back to the OP thread ..... "RAWR vs payload".

[caissiel]

Beware that a dually F350 has less front tire capacity and the same frame as the much lower rated F250. And should be treated accordingly. It may satisfy some but for me they are weaker on the front end and thus my reason for having tires and axels capable to handle my heavy unit.
I have experienced to many bent wheels on duels while singles replaced them with great success.
Besides the transport industry is moving toward super singles and the MH industry is thinking very seriously in that direction with larger front tires and super singles for the rear.
Talked to one MH owner with that set up and he has been very satisfied. Mush better backing up control with less shearing on turns. I was stunned when he told me that but it's true.

[Gordon Dewald]

Originally Posted by JIMNLIN

Maybe some folks know we can get say a F350 SRW with a 10000 GVWR or a 11200 GVWR in the exact same truck specs. So why would a truck maker put two different GVWR on the same truck.
GVWR simply isn't the holy grail as some would have us believe.

Or some folks may know a vehicle manufacturer may choose any GVWR they want up to the sum of the GAWRs for any particular vehicle.

Or some folks know GVWR based payloads can over load a truck RAWR such as a 3300 lb payload in the bed of a F150 will overload its RAWR.

Which leads us back to the OP thread ..... "RAWR vs payload".

You do ask an interesting question.

It may be just that the manufacturers are out to confuse us. The only question I would have is are you sure that every spec is exactly the same? Like is everything exactly the same throughout the entire body, frame and drive train on both vehicles? Yes they share many common components but if everything is the same why would they debrand a unit (calling a 350 unit a 250 and selling it for less)?

It would make no sense for the manufacturer to have two different stickers for the same truck. Given the competition and marketing drive they are under why would they seriously understate a vehicles capacity.