Go Back   iRV2 Forums > TRAVEL TRAILER, 5th WHEEL & TRUCK CAMPER FORUMS > Trailer Towing and Tow Vehicles Discussion
Click Here to Login
Join iRV2 Today

Mission Statement: Supporting thoughtful exchange of knowledge, values and experience among RV enthusiasts.
Reply
  This discussion is proudly sponsored by:
Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about their products on iRV2
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 06-06-2016, 12:54 PM   #99
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Posts: 27
The Inspection

My USAA insurance hired an engineering firm to inspect my truck, trailer and Reese hitch. I spent over 3 hours with the engineer last Thursday.

In explaining to him how the hitch failed, it became more clear to me in going thru the motions with a replica kingpin I have, that this mid-pin situation is definitely what happened. With the safety pin installed thru the handle, instead of thru the main body of the hitch like it is supposed to be when fully closed, it would not take a lot for the kingpin to push the handle/jaw open if it were be forced to the left as it was in my left turn. The engineer said there was no way the kingpin could come out even if the hitch were ¾” open, like in a mid-pin situation with the safety pin holding the jaw open like I explained in previous posts. He tried to force the kingpin into the additional ¾” opening and it wouldn’t go in. He said, if it won’t go in, it couldn’t have come out. He was correct, and all I could tell him was that it did come out somehow in my situation. But then with the safety pin still installed just thru the handle, I engaged my replica kingpin again into the hitch, and then forced it to the left, as it would have been in the turn, and there was nothing to keep the handle/jaw closed. The kingpin forced the handle/jaw to the left, with a large enough opening to detach and the kingpin popped completely out of the hitch. I was standing there holding the kingpin, looking at a handle/jaw nearly completely closed with the safety pin installed, and the kingpin had just detached. That sent chills up my spine, because I was able to physically see how it happened in my incident.

The engineer was a great guy, very personable and smart. However, he came into this inspection with a biased opinion that these hitches are bullet proof and there is no way they can fail. He told me about all the testing he knows that Ford did with this Reese hitch to be confident enough to install them in their trucks. And I agree with him, to a point. If this hitch is properly closed in the locked position, I don’t see how the kingpin could ever come out of the hitch. Something else would have to break or give way first, there is simply no way for the kingpin to simply pop out of a closed hitch. I think he is even correct that if the hitch is closed all but that last ¾”, it still probably couldn’t come out. But as I have explained, I think being closed that far is what misled me and also what kept the kingpin in the hitch for as long as it did. It took that tight turn and enough torque from it to push the unsecured handle/jaw open, which allowed the kingpin to pop out of the hitch. In this mid-pin situation, even an experienced person who tows a lot, can be misled into believing everything looks and feels right, yet the hitch is not properly closed and locked. Everything could be fine thru the entire towing experience and they would never even know, or under the right conditions as in my situation, the kingpin can absolutely and completely detach.

My feeling is that the engineer will find human error as the cause, not the hitch design, which if he does, is unfortunate. He would be correct in respect to the fact that the hitch was not properly closed and locked, which is what allowed it to detach. But I think I have explained that it is the design of this hitch, coupled with the lack of necessary safety features, that can allow even a person with a lot of towing experience, to miss it not being correctly secured. My recommendations to Ford via my insurance company, by some of your suggestions, are that the jaw itself should be painted a clearly distinguishable color like white or yellow. Additionally, there should be another distinguishable colored vertical red line on the jaw, that is only visible when the jaw is completely closed around the kingpin. These simple safety features, would be easy to implement and would have absolutely prevented this incident from happening in my case. I hope USAA will address this with Ford, if for no other reason than to prevent a similar dis-connect like I had, which could have fatal results. The fix to this design flaw would be easy and inexpensive to correct and could save lives.

Either way, I thought it amazing that USAA believed my explanation and found me not at fault in this incident. That says so much about my insurance company. Not only that, but they were willing to incur the added cost of a professional analysis, even though that probably will not help my claim. I feel just about any other insurance company would have ignored my explanation, found me at fault and moved on. That would be the easy and typical thing to do. “We know what it means to serve”, isn’t just some catchy slogan for USAA, it is actually their mission statement, and I find that amazing in today’s world.

I will let you know the end result!
__________________

__________________
Tombstoner is offline   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 RV Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

iRV2.com RV Community - Are you about to start a new improvement on your RV or need some help with some maintenance? Do you need advice on what products to buy? Or maybe you can give others some advice? No matter where you fit in you'll find that iRV2 is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with other RV owners, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create an RV blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Old 06-06-2016, 01:04 PM   #100
Senior Member


 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 997
USAA is great company. I have had them for decades. Thanks for keeping us updated. This thread sure has me eye balling my pin after hook up each time
__________________

__________________
2014 Raptor 300MP, 2014 Cowboy Cadillac - Ram 3500 Crew Cab Long Bed Longhorn 6.7 Cummins Turbo Diesel DRW 4.10 Rear End, 5588 Payload, Firestone Airbags, Curt Q20, TST507
raineman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-06-2016, 03:11 PM   #101
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 39
Hitch Pins

Not on topic but related~~~
While fueling a transporter pulled in at the next pump. He came over and asked why I locked the hitch instead pinning it closed. I told him when I bought the rig from CW the lock was provided and not sure if by CW or Reese. He said over the past year he has kept his locked in case after a meal or bathroom break he did not check as close as he should. He began locking after hearing of TT hitch pins pulled and 5er latches pulled. All were said to be pinned.
__________________
Captn John is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-06-2016, 03:18 PM   #102
Senior Member
 
JBurg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Rock Springs, Wyoming
Posts: 368
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captn John View Post
Not on topic but related~~~
While fueling a transporter pulled in at the next pump. He came over and asked why I locked the hitch instead pinning it closed. I told him when I bought the rig from CW the lock was provided and not sure if by CW or Reese. He said over the past year he has kept his locked in case after a meal or bathroom break he did not check as close as he should. He began locking after hearing of TT hitch pins pulled and 5er latches pulled. All were said to be pinned.

Happens a lot with semi-trucks as well. Something very wrong with the individual that does such a thing.
__________________
2015 Ram 3500 Laramie Longhorn CC LB Dually. Cummins, Aisin, 4X4, 4.10 gears. Max towing-28,750. Max payload-5,436. 2016 DRV Mobile Suites 41RSSB4
JBurg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-06-2016, 07:29 PM   #103
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 1,346
I have 5 locks on my B&W. I have ALWAYS locked my handle, there are jerks out there.

"I" never do a pull test. I do a Visual test. Handle closed and LOCKED with the kingpin and hitch plates visually touching and a look to see the 1" jaws are fully closed around the kingpin.

__________________
Cummins12V98 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-07-2016, 08:02 AM   #104
Senior Member
 
Hit_the_Rhod's Avatar


 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Salvisa, KY
Posts: 2,436
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tombstoner View Post
Either way, I thought it amazing that USAA believed my explanation and found me not at fault in this incident. That says so much about my insurance company. Not only that, but they were willing to incur the added cost of a professional analysis, even though that probably will not help my claim. I feel just about any other insurance company would have ignored my explanation, found me at fault and moved on. That would be the easy and typical thing to do. “We know what it means to serve”, isn’t just some catchy slogan for USAA, it is actually their mission statement, and I find that amazing in today’s world.

I will let you know the end result!
If I missed it in your post, I apologize, but since USAA is not considering it your fault, are they waiving your deductible?
__________________
Scot & Laura Kellersberger
Newmar 4 wheel drive Dutch Star 3891, 2005 GMC Canyon. Demco Tow Bar & Baseplate U.S.Army (ret)
1985 - 2006
Hit_the_Rhod is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-07-2016, 09:55 AM   #105
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Posts: 27
Good tips on keeping it locked, unbelievable people would mess with a closed hitch simply because it was unlocked.

The deductible issue is still up in the air. I paid it when I picked up my truck because the decision on fault had not yet been made. USAA has since told me that they have found me not at fault, and if the engineer concurs that the hitch has a manufacturer design problem, then they are going to go after Ford for the damages, which would include my deductible. If the engineer reports no issues then they don't have enough to go after Ford and I won't be reimbursed for my deductible. I think that is fair. I have separate insurance on my trailer and that insurance waived that deductible, something about you can't be made to pay two deductibles for one incident. My truck had over $12,000 in damage and the trailer was $1,500. Considering that probably any other insurance would have found me at fault (and raised my rates), I'm not going to complain about a $500 deductible. Besides, USAA included the entire replacement cost of the Reese hitch in the damages which was $1,600 + tax. They cashed me out on that and told me to buy any hitch I wanted and the body shop installed the new Curt 24K for me. The Curt was only $800 + tax, so the difference covered my deductible with a couple hundred left over. I have no complaints, nice to work with a respectable company that treats you fairly.
__________________
Tombstoner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-2016, 07:02 PM   #106
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 48
You were probably high pinned, there is NO other way the pin can come out of the jaws and leave everything basicly intact. Also in your picture it looks like the safety pin IS through both the handle and the flag as is is supposed to be, unless you took that pin out and closed the jaws and replaced it, if the pin was only through the handle it would still only be through the handle in your picture. I have driven 18 wheeler for over 5 million miles and have seen people pull a trailer high hooked for several hundred miles and not have a problem, other than the heart attack they have when they see the problem. I have also seen the trailer come off in just a few feet on a smooth surface at low speed, just depends on how the gods are feeling that day. Also you do definitely need grease on the pin and jaws, even with the lube plate.
__________________
renegade is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-10-2016, 02:55 PM   #107
Senior Member
 
Blue74's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Goodyear, AZ
Posts: 363
Quote:
Originally Posted by twinboat View Post
My experience is in tractor trailer hitchs but I noticed 2 things in your pictures.

The gouges all over the plate, caused by missing the pin a few times and the pin possibly riding on top of the lock dog.

If you are not, slightly, lifting the trailer when backing under it, you have the front to high.

Lots of info on hitching, out there.

The second thing is, where is the grease ?

We always had grease on the hitch parts. Everything worked so much better.
I too come from a big truck back ground and just stated using a B&W Companion hitch and have the Teflon plate but was thinking about greasing the pin. Just don't like the idea of the pin being dry.

Good thread glad I purchased the B&W
__________________
USA Map of Travels Canada Map of Travels Picasa Photo Albums
Are we there yet? Truck 2013 F350 Black DRW CC 6.7 Diesel King Ranch
Blue74 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-10-2016, 07:02 PM   #108
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 1,346
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue74 View Post
I too come from a big truck back ground and just stated using a B&W Companion hitch and have the Teflon plate but was thinking about greasing the pin. Just don't like the idea of the pin being dry.

Good thread glad I purchased the B&W
I pit one pump from my grease gun on the pin spread evenly. I clean the jaws and pin once in a while then re grease.

Good call on the B&W!
__________________
Cummins12V98 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-10-2016, 09:04 PM   #109
Senior Member
 
chertz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 494
Ditto... I do the same as u Cummins on my B&W patriot
__________________
2014 Ram 3500 CCLB 4x4 Dually 68RFE, 370/800 Cummins 3.42 highway gear - Deep Cherry Red
2016 Coachmen Chapparal 360IBL
Sold - 2005 Dodge Ram 2500 SLT QCLB 4x4 - Cummins Power
chertz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2016, 07:25 AM   #110
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 327
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue74 View Post
Just don't like the idea of the pin being dry.

Good thread glad I purchased the B&W
You don't have to have a degree in metallurgical engineering to realize bear metal rubbing against similar bear metal substantially increases wear.
__________________
fvstringpicker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2016, 07:50 AM   #111
Senior Member
 
wandering1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: NC
Posts: 450
Send a message via ICQ to wandering1
If the jaw/handle were still in the locked position you obviously did not have the jaws wrapped around the hitch pin, no magic here. Sounds like you were high hitched where the hitch pin was jammed between the jaws and the hitch plate and not where the jaws were wrapped around the hitch pin. The hitch pin can stay jammed for quite a few miles before slipping out.
__________________
Wandering1
wandering1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2016, 08:43 AM   #112
Senior Member
 
tuffr2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Palm Coast Florida
Posts: 2,457
People that mess with other people's hitch / stuff. Just goes to show you when a crazed gunman shoots 10 people probably 1 or 2 deserved getting shot.

I know, not PC but the odds are...just saying.
__________________

__________________
tuffr2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Reese Goosebox and Lippert Frame Failure Report RRman 5th Wheel Discussion 2 04-16-2015 07:55 PM
Why no 5er hitch for Draw-Tite, Reese,Hidden Hitch gooseneck? TEX-CTD Trailer Towing and Tow Vehicles Discussion 7 07-31-2010 07:33 AM
Question about my Reese hitch. Del Monte Trailer Towing and Tow Vehicles Discussion 6 09-05-2005 08:30 PM
Super Hitch vs. Titan V or Torklift vs Reese CyberVet65 Truck Camper Discussion 22 01-30-2005 07:16 AM

» Virginia Campgrounds

Reviews provided by


Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 02:50 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.