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Old 03-03-2013, 08:21 AM   #1
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Sequoia Towability

We are looking at getting a newer Toyota Sequoia 5.7L (need the extra seating for large family). Do you all think we would be able to tow a Bullet 281BHS or a Freedom Express 292BHDS with this vehicle? We are looking at weekend use once a month and maybe a 1-2 week longer trip once a year. The cap on the sequoia is 7200, the dry weight on the bullet is ~5100 and the dry on the freedom is ~5500. I don't think we would be packing much more than 1k worth of stuff on a trip. We will also not likely be driving one with full gray or black water tanks either.
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Old 03-03-2013, 08:33 AM   #2
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Looks like the Sequoia would be pretty well maxed out. My son used his to pull a 5,000 lb. boat and the hitch load was too much for its soft springs. I realize the boat hitch loading was probably more than an RV, and that you could use an equalizer, but that is still too much loading on that SUV. That 5.7 has sufficient power, but I am not sure of the capability of the transmission. In short, do not exceede the mfg's limitations on that vehicle.
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Old 03-03-2013, 05:41 PM   #3
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Just out of curiosity, why is this maxing the sequoia out? The dry weight of the bullet is 5150 and we believe we won't haul more than 1k worth of weight. The sequoia is rated to tow 7400 lbs. We haven't purchased either tow vehicle or RV yet, and we are still in the selection process. We know we want something like this bullet (linked below), but we are struggling with matching a tow vehicle to it. Some people say a sequoia would be fine, others say its pushing it. We know we need an SUV because we have 3 small children. We cannot get a truck because of this.

What kind of weight could a sequoia comfortably tow before we are pushing it? If the sequoia isn't beefy enough to tow this TT what SUV would you recommend to pull it? An Armada, suburban, etc?

Thank you for any advice!

http://www.keystonerv.com/bullet/mod...s/model-mobile
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Old 03-03-2013, 06:03 PM   #4
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I'm towing a Sprinter 311bhs with our excursion. We are about in the same range as you would be as far as towing near our max. The truck pulls it fine. It's the giant sides of the trailer that catch wind and get pushed from passing trucks that get your attention. I think that is what others mean by you might be pushing it. I've been investing time and money into upgrades to make our towing experienced more comfortable ( doesn't increase our towing capacity though). There is a lot to the towing equation to consider.

I think it also matters where you live. If I were in the mountains, we'd already have a truck maybe a dually. We live in Florida so things are not quite as treacherous...aside from the occasional tourist, reading a map, making last minute lane changes to get off at an exit in front of you.

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Old 03-03-2013, 08:46 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrennanL View Post
Just out of curiosity, why is this maxing the sequoia out?
You are going by the GCWR (and tow rating) and ignoring the GVWR (and payload available for hitch weight).

Quote:
The sequoia is rated to tow 7400 lbs.
7400 pounds, provided there is nothing in the SUV but a skinny driver. Add your family and the net payload available for hitch weight goes way down.

Quote:
Some people say a sequoia would be fine, others say its pushing it.
It's pushing it. You'll probably be overloaded over the GVWR of the SUV.

Quote:
We know we need an SUV because we have 3 small children. We cannot get a truck because of this.
Baloney! Have you sat in the back seat of a 2011-up F-150 SuperCrew? All sorts of room back there for three kids - even a few years from now as they begin to grow up. Most F-150s would be overloaded with that trailer you want, but you can order one with the HD payload pkg and Max Tow pkg that will do just fine for a TT with GVWR of 7590.

I grew up with two brothers and we made numerous 800 to 1000 mile round trips with three boys in the back seat of a 1938 Chevy 4-door sedan, and numerous more in the back seat of '49 Dodge 2-door sedan, and numerous more in the back seat of the '51 Dodge sedan, then numerous more in the back seat of a 1954 Dodge sedan. Dad drove that '54 until I left home for college in 1957. (Dad bought Dodges because they were cheaper than comparable Fords and Chevys in our town.)

Quote:
What kind of weight could a sequoia comfortably tow before we are pushing it?
Less than my 2012 Skyline Nomad Joey 196S, which has a GVWR of 5,600 pounds and grossed a bit less than 5,000 pounds on a recent 4,200 mile trip.

Quote:
If the sequoia isn't beefy enough to tow this TT what SUV would you recommend to pull it? An Armada, suburban, etc?
Only one SUV might have a prayer of hauling your family and one of those trailers without being overloaded over the GVWR of the tow vehicle. None of the half-tons, such as the Sequoia, Ford Expedition, Chevy/GMC 1500 Suburban/Yukon, nor that Datsun you mentioned. But GM makes the Suburban/Yukon XL in a 2500 "three-quarter-ton" version with a bit more payload capacity and most of the trailering equipment equipment is standard. One of those with the right options would probably be adequate if you load the RV lightly, and also load the SUV lightly. In effect, nothing in the SUV except family and small pet(s). All tools, jacks, luggage, etc. goes into the trailer. Tow with empty grey and black water tanks, and only enough fresh water in the tank to flush the pottie while on the road. No heavy cookware such as cast iron skillets or Dutch ovens.

That Bullet you linked to has a GVWR of 7,590, with 11.5% dry hitch weight. Count on 12.5% wet and loaded hitch weight. And 6,500 pounds minimum gross trailer weight, or 812 pounds hitch weight.

Before you buy the tow vehicle, rent or borrow one equipped as close as possible to the one you want. Load the family in it and go to a truckstop that has a truck scale. Fill up with gas and weigh the wet and loaded SUV. Add 50 pounds to the scale weight for the hitch parts that will be in the truck when towing. Subtract that gross SUV weigh from the GVWR of the SUV, and the answer is the max hitch weight you can have without being overloaded. If that max hitch weight is less than 814 pounds, then forgetaboutit for that SUV, and continue looking. If it's me, I'm going to insist on at least 900 pounds available for hitch weight before I buy that SUV.

2013 Suburban and Yukon XL 2500 comes with everything you need as far as heavy duty trailering equipment except the camper mirrors. So if you order a new one, be certain to order the optional camper mirrors.

BTW, I'm a Toyota fan. My first Toy was a 1988 Camry LE with stick shift. Loved that car. I've had several other Toys since then, including Camrys, Avalons, Corollas, 1989 Toyota small pickup and 1995 T100 pickup. My new car is a 2013 Venza. Never a spec of trouble from any of my Toyotas. But in 1999 I needed a 5er hauler, and Toy didn't make anything that would tow my 5er without being overloaded. I ordered an F-250 SuperDuty diesel. Wonderful pickup. Last year I needed a new half-ton pickup that could tow my TT and still get decent unloaded mileage. Toy didn't make anything that would compete with the Ford F-150 EcoBoost, so that's another Ford I bought.

If I needed an SUV to tow a TT with GVWR of 7590, I'd have to settle for a GM 2500, because no one else makes one with enough available payload to handle the hitch weight along with an SUV full of family.

But wait! There's another option. If a CrewCab pickup won't do, and you don't like the Government Motors 2500 SUVs, then look at a full-size van. For example a new GMC 3500 van with a shorty body, 8 or 12 pax seating, and 6.0L V8 engine, has a max payload of 3,500 pounds, tow rating of 9700 pounds, and GCWR of 16,000 pounds. Only the GCWR is a real number - the payload and tow rating are way overstated because they assume nothing is in the van but a skinny driver. But even with the van loaded with your family and stuff, it should still be able to tow an 8,000-pound TT with 1,000 pounds hitch weight without being overloaded.
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Old 03-03-2013, 11:16 PM   #6
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I agree with SmokeyWren's post. I think he covered it quite well. The other thing that caught my eye was the TT tires. The 14" load range C tires have a 1500lb load cap as far as I can find. That ads up to 6K plus 800 for hitch is 6800. That is about 800 lbs short of the TT GVWR. Also if the Toyota you are looking at has P rated (car tires) and not LT tires then that is not good.
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Old 03-04-2013, 08:30 AM   #7
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You asked me what made me think that Sequoia was maxed out and that is a fair question. The above posts pretty well summed up the weight limitation thing, but my observations were based on actual use and driving and riding in that SUV towing a boat that probably weighs less than tour camper. If I recall, the hitch weight was at least 700 pounds and way too much. We moved the boat to the rear and reduced the hitch load to a little over 600 pounds and went with that. It still set very low in the back and looked like an elephant was riding in the back seat. I acknowledge that an equalizer hitch would help that a lot, but that Sequoia was by the seat of my pants overloaded and when we added up all the other stuff that gets loaded on the boat and inside the car, it was near the maximum combined weight. Now, I hear a lot of comments that you are ok if you just never exceed the manufacturers recommendation and that is a good starting point, however there is such a thing as additive limitations and this is probably the situation with that SUV. While it may or may not have been within the combined weight limits, I will submit that brakes, hitch weight, cooling system and tires were also pushed to the limits. How far do you want to push an otherwise fine SUV?
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Old 03-04-2013, 02:40 PM   #8
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I appreciate all the information, it is very helpful to someone new to towing. My wife and I discussed going up in size on truck or down in size on TT. Based upon costs of both, we are definitely going to end up with a smaller TT. We do not want to wear out the SUV we purchase as it will be our day to day vehicle also.

Staying with the Sequoia, what kind of GVWR do you recommend we stay underneath in order to not "push" the truck? Going with assumption of mainly short weekend trips, with the occasional (once a year) 1-2 week long trek. Assume 2 adults and 3 small children (car seat young).

Our TT requirements are as follows: 1) Queen bed (don't want to convert preferably), 2) bunk beds, bath with tub/toilet, and dinette.

The Jayco Feather Ultra-Lite M-228 (3620 dry/4950 GVWR) would be a great example of what we are looking at now. Would this be a comfortable tow in a Sequoia or still too much?

If not, what do you think a GVWR to shoot for would be?

Everyone, thank you again for your help!


Jayco link:
http://www.nadaguides.com/RVs/2012/J...dard-Equipment
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Old 03-04-2013, 06:59 PM   #9
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The GCWR for the 2013 Sequoia is 13,600 and subtracting the 5730 lb. weight of the SUV itself, leaves 7870 lbs. of which Toyota specifies 7100 max for the trailer weight and that leaves 680 lbs. for SUV passenger and cargo weight. Doing the math is not that complicated.

680 lbs. for a couple and there 3 children is not that unreasonable to have as a load limit. The SUV can handle the trailer easily but it would be important to have a good weight distributing hitch installed and to cover the trailer braking system to be sure everything plays nice.

Toyota is the only company whose SUV figures I would trust. My Chevy SUV could barely stop itself and if the trailer brakes did not work perfectly I would find myself coming to a stop in the next county.

A Toyota Tundra crew cab truck is another option. Pickups have the advantage of ease of stowing bicycles and other recreation stuff in the bed and for mounting racks for kayaks and other toys with a lot more flexibility than can be had with an SUV.
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Old 03-04-2013, 07:37 PM   #10
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First off I noticed on a few websites the Freedom Express 292BHDS came in at 6300 dry....So right off the bat that would be out of the question. The Bullet 281BHS wouldn't be too bad...

Right now I tow a loaded 25' tt with the smaller Toyota 4-Runner 4.7L (V-8) rated at 7200 towing cap. My tt is 5000 lbs. loaded, with 3 adults. Yes, the Toyota SUV's ride real nice as daily drivers. Our 4-Runner is a 05' with 48k miles....For towing they have kind of softer suspensions, but with a weight distribution systems that greatly helps....

All this leads to "would I tow closer to my vehicles 7k max limit..." The answer is NO....Yes, the 4-Runner has a shorter wheelbase over the Sequoia.

I would take a look at the Tundra Double cab or Maxi cab with the 5.7L which puts ya over 10k towing cap.
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Old 03-04-2013, 08:11 PM   #11
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Some food for thought.
Buy a used Toyota as close to what you want without paying new price. Then rent a TT for a weekend and pay more attention to size and weight than floor plan and must haves. You can put up with almost anything for a weekend. If that seems to be too heavy rent a lighter one next time etc. You will gain some valuable info. In the end if you find you need a bigger TV you won't have as big of loss as you would buying new.
Good luck
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Old 03-04-2013, 09:01 PM   #12
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The other thing that caught my eye was the TT tires. The 14" load range C tires have a 1500lb load cap as far as I can find. That ads up to 6K plus 800 for hitch is 6800. That is about 800 lbs short of the TT GVWR. Also if the Toyota you are looking at has P rated (car tires) and not LT tires then that is not good.
You're apparently looking at car tires.

ST205/75R14C tires have 1,760 pounds weigh capacity per tire @ 50 PSI:

Tire Size Ply Rating Overall Diameter (inches) Overall Width (inches) Max Load (lbs) Max Psi Tread Depth (inches) Rim Width

ST205/75R14 6 26.1 8.10 1,760 50 9/32 5.50

So that's 7040 pounds tire capacity for GAWR. Add 10 percent to GAWR to get max TT GVWR those tires could support, or 7,744.

The Keystone Bullet 281BHS he was considering has a GVWR of 7,590, or more than the 7,744 max GVWR those tires could legally support.

Legally, smegally, that's still not enough excess tire capacity to satisfy me. The first thing I would do with that trailer is replace the tires (and wheels if required) with the biggest size trailer tire that would fit in the wheelwells. Preferably ST225/75R15E (2,830 weigh capacity), but if they won't fit then back off to ST205/75R15D (2,150 weight capacity). If even the ST205/75R15D won't fit in the wheel wells, then back off again to ST215/75R14C, which have only 1,870 weigh capacity, but that's better than the stock 1,760. (Maxxis makes all the above sizes.)
http://www.maxxistires.com/Industria...ST-Radial.aspx
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Old 03-04-2013, 10:30 PM   #13
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[QUOTE=SmokeyWren;1484759]
You're apparently looking at car tires.

ST205/75R14C tires have 1,760 pounds weigh capacity per tire @ 50 PSI:

QUOTE]
That makes sense. I never found the specific tire.
That is a pet peeve of mine, that RVs have a min tire for the GVWR and in the case of TTs it is minus the toungue weight.
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Old 03-06-2013, 07:28 AM   #14
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Have you looked at the larger pop-up campers? I walked on one at the last RV show and thought Wow - this is really cool. It opens up if the weather good or closes up if the weather is bad.

I also thought it would be great for children. Lots of room - much more than a hard sided trailer. And when traveling it would be real easy to tow since it folds into a much more aerodynamic shape.

Also a pop-up is a great camper to start with.

It does not have everything you want but neither will any camper.
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