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Old 11-18-2012, 10:12 AM   #15
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[QUOTE=wardy;1360966]
Quote:
Originally Posted by wandering1 View Post
So what are the facts about not using Chinese made tires? Buy tires based on fact not personal opinion. All I have seen on forums is a lot of personal opinions based on personal bias and tire expert wannabes. Its interesting that no one can say what exactly caused a tire failure.[/QUOTE

The only tires I've ever had blow with sudden failure were Chinese. They popped loud enough for me to hear inside my coach from 50 feet back on my tow dolly. I've also had a third that I replaced after seeing the casing deformed-Chinese. So what are you saying? You expect us that have had these "China tire bombs" (Google it) to have the equivalent of an autopsy? Our personal experience of the many is not credible? The Good Year dealer this past summer where I bought one of the replacement's that won't carry their own brand Marathon ST tire. I read the previous post's, I also went with Maxxis and scrapped my newer Chinese Carlisle & Marathon.
I have had both chinese made and american made trailer tires that had the same failures. The tires have been properly maintained, not overloaded, and not driven over the max speeds and the American made tires have blown out just as often as the Chinese made tires. What I find really amusing is all of the tire expert wannabes saying the failures are due to the tires being chinese made when they really dont have a clue as to what actually caused the failure. Chinese made trailer tires have to meet DOT standards just like American made trailer tires. Using your logic I guess you could say the chinese are just trying to meet american standards for tire failures. Too bad people like you give misleading advice that causes others to waste hard earned money replacing their tires that dont need to be replaced.
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Old 11-18-2012, 10:25 AM   #16
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RV Tire Problems
A lot of personal opinions and not facts are being posted on the forum about trailer tires. The majority of it is personal opinions that unfortunately a lot of people without the facts pay attention to, and, end up spending a lot of hard earned money on new tires because of the personal opinions that were posted on the forum by wannabe tire experts. Most people don’t have a clue as to what caused their tire failure all they really know is the tire failed.
Unfortunately newbie’s with little to no RV experience and others with little knowledge of tires are misled by these wannabes and end up with a lot of unfounded tire failure misconceptions causing them to worry and spend their hard earned money replacing perfectly good tires.
A lot of people have a bias against foreign made products. That’s too bad because more and more manufacturers are having their products made by foreign companies. I would prefer that all American sold products be made in this country but that is not the world we live in, if you can’t control it or you haven’t done anything to change it then don’t complain about it and keep your misleading opinions to yourself.
Before foreign companies started making the tires all the complaints about trailer tires were the same as they are now. American and foreign made tires all perform the same. If you don’t think foreign made tires meet DOT standards then do something about it like report it to the DOT or your congressman and quit whining and misleading people about the tires. Some people complain about foreign made tires having inferior rubber, they don’t have facts to back up their claim. If you want a tire that will solve your tire problems then think about getting larger stronger tires. Light truck tires appear to last longer than ST tires based on comments I have seen on the forum, not facts.
Things to avoid that can damage tires:
1. Extended storage. Side walls tend to break down.
2. Improper inflation. Keep the tires inflated to the proper level when in storage or in use, 24/7/365. Under/over inflation when in use causes the heat to build up higher than what the tire is rated for which damages the tire.
3. High speed. Limit your speed to the max the tire is rated for, most are 65mph. Traveling over the max causes heat buildup above what the tires are rated for which damages the tire.
4. Hitting potholes in our wonderful highways and roads, running off the edge of the road, hitting curbs, rubbing tires against the curb. All of these things damage the tires. Belts break down and tires throw the tread.
5. Extended driving on hot highways in hot weather can damage tires from overheating.
6. Overloaded trailers, this will cause your tires to overheat, get rid of the extra weight.
7. Environment – keep tires covered to protect against the weather and sunlight.
8. Age, check with the tire manufacturer to educate yourself about when tires should be replaced.
9. Dry rot, check with the tire manufacturer to educate yourself about dry rot.
10. Mechanical problems like brakes sticking, or bad wheel bearings can cause the wheel to overheat which will cause the tire to overheat which damages the tire.
11. Defects in materials and workmanship. Highly doubtful this causes all tire failures.
Tire Pressure
Check your tire pressure when the RV has not been driven for 3 - 4 hours. That is when the tire is "cold". Forget ambient temp, 80psi at 10 degrees F is the same as 80psi at 100 degrees F. If you over inflate or under inflate the tires this can cause the tires to run hotter than normal which can damage the tires and cause tire failure. Stick with the PSI on the side of the tires. No need to turn this into rocket science. Check with the tire manufacturers if you need an education on tire inflation. Tire pressure does rise as the tire temp rises after driving down the road just like it is supposed to which is why you are supposed to check the pressure when the tire is “cold”.
Tire Temp
An Infra Red Thermometer can be a useful tool if you know how to use it. It will tell you the temp of the tire. You need to know the max temp for the tire if you are going to monitor it. If the temp of the tire is higher than the max temp the tire is rated for then you may have a problem (trailer is overloaded, improper inflation, or a mechanical problem). If you are checking to see if the tire is over the max rated temp and you don’t know what the max rated temp is, then you are wasting money for the thermometer and wasting time using it. Don’t mislead people into thinking they need an Infra Red Thermometer causing them to waste money and time.
Replacing Failed Tires
The tire dealer will prorate your failed tire and sell you a new one. Do not let the tire dealer keep the failed tire when you have it replaced. Contact the tire manufacturer about the failure. The manufacturer will arrange for a local tire dealer to ship the failed tire to them and reimburse you for the price you paid for the new tire plus pay for any damages to the RV caused by the tire failure if you provide estimates of repair. This has been my experience with Goodyear and Carlisle.
This can be a very helpful forum if you forget the personal opinions and prejudices, get the facts, and communicate the facts to help others learn. Post useful information like what caused a tire failure not dumb comments like”I had a China bomb blowout”.
How good are Chinese tires?
http://www.rvtiresafety.com/2012/01/how-good-are-chinese-tires.html
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Old 11-19-2012, 02:36 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by azdryheat View Post
I've got the Michelin LT's on my trailer. I figure the cost of the tires will far out-weigh the cost and hassle of repairing the trailer should a tire blow up.

Many of the major tire manufacturers are being more protective of their market and are using the DOT safety regulations depicted in current vehicle owner’s manuals as reference to not cover tires not meeting those requirements. Here is an example from Michelin.

Michelin Warranty information for replacement tires.

What Is Not Covered!

Applies to replacement tires purchased on or after March 1, 2011.

– Use of MICHELIN® tires that is inconsistent with the safety information provided in your owner’s manual.

– Use of MICHELIN® tires that is inconsistent with the maintenance information provided in your owner’s manual.

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Old 11-19-2012, 02:59 PM   #18
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I've used the Michelin XPS Ribs on 6000 lb 5th wheel axles and never had a tire problem with them. They are an all-steel construction tire that's recommended by Michelin Tech Support for trailer service; they ran significantly cooler than the fabric-and-steel construction LT235/85R-16E Goodyear Wrangler HT tires that were OEM equipment on the 5th wheel. Yes, they are not cheap, but the peace of mind was worth it to me.

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Old 11-20-2012, 10:30 AM   #19
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wandering1: It's clear you never met a tire you didn't like. It's also clear you are not a manufacturing, quality control engineer or any type of engineer for that matter, perhaps a retailer. You've been on this board since 2007 but have not come to grips that most of our chatter is based on opinion? You like "facts" if there your facts but are dismissive of others. It is a fact I had 3 Chinese tires fail, 1 Carlisle & 2 Marathon's. You can place the blame on me and those that have switched to LT all you want. You can even use words like "dumb" as you see fitting. If I were to get behind a donkey and get kicked I would not get behind again. It's clear you'd stay there until you could figure out why you keep getting kicked.
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Old 11-21-2012, 03:40 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wardy
wandering1: It's clear you never met a tire you didn't like. It's also clear you are not a manufacturing, quality control engineer or any type of engineer for that matter, perhaps a retailer. You've been on this board since 2007 but have not come to grips that most of our chatter is based on opinion? You like "facts" if there your facts but are dismissive of others. It is a fact I had 3 Chinese tires fail, 1 Carlisle & 2 Marathon's. You can place the blame on me and those that have switched to LT all you want. You can even use words like "dumb" as you see fitting. If I were to get behind a donkey and get kicked I would not get behind again. It's clear you'd stay there until you could figure out why you keep getting kicked.
I agree with 20 years towing an RV.
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Old 11-21-2012, 05:00 PM   #21
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I recently made this same decision (5200 lb. axles) and went with the Maxxis ST235/80-16 10-ply. The Michelin Ribs are undoubtedly excellent tires but from all the research I could do I couldn't justify the 30+% higher price given that the Maxxis seem to have a near perfect service record. The Michelin might wear longer but I replace tires based on time and I've never had tread wear out before replacement (although the strange wear patterns I had on the OEM Towmax tires came close!) After several thousand miles of service I am very happy with the Maxxis thus far, zero issues and can't detect any obvious treadwear. I have been operating them at 80 psi.
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Old 11-27-2012, 04:34 PM   #22
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After reading the posts and contacting a couple of experts AND Michelin directly, I've purchased the Maxxis ST tires. Michelin specifically stated they DO NOT recommend the XPS for trailers. They said to use ST's. Some might say they are just covering their bases, but they would also, I'm sure, not honor any claims due to misapplication of their product. So for better or worse, I've stuck with the ST's of the same size as the OEM. As an aside, the Maxxis has 3 ply's on their sidewalls. My OEM Akurets had only 2, although both rated E and 10 ply.
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Old 11-27-2012, 04:52 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fool View Post
Michelin specifically stated they DO NOT recommend the XPS for trailers.
Oh, really? The e-mail I received from Michelin is posted below:

Quote:
Thank you for your email. We welcome the opportunity to serve you.

Obviously the utilization of the XPS Rib tires are limited, as they are
only manufactured in 16" sizes, LRE (10 ply) versions. It is an all steel radial casing design and strength, making it long lasting, durable and also retreadable. In its class nothing better, excellent for a commercial trailer tire.

Only draw back (we see you are in Houston) it is NOT an all season tire.

Highly recommended for your application!

It is our goal to ensure that your issue has been resolved or your question answered to your satisfaction. If we can assist you further, please respond to this email or call us at x-xxx-xxxx (toll free) between 8:00AM and 8:00PM Eastern Time Monday through Friday or between 8:30AM and 4:30PM Eastern Time on Saturday.

Mike T.
Michelin North America
Consumer Care Department
Certified Michelin Product Expert
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Old 11-27-2012, 10:38 PM   #24
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IMO you asked which tire they recommended replacing a ST so sure you get a canned answer from a liability standpoint.

I also have a email from another website member from Michelin that they recommend using the XPS Ribs on heavy trailers.

MICHELINS XPS RIBS RESPONCE
It was brougt up in a thread that the XPS Rib is not for use on trailers so I emailed Michelin to get a response to this matter.
Email response was:
Quote:

Thank you for your email. We welcome the opportunity to serve you.

The Michelin XPS Rib can be used for recreational vehicles, trailer
travelers and pick up trucks. This is an all around tire for many different applications. I hope this answer your question. Again, thank you for being a Michelin consumer.

It is our goal to ensure that your issue has been resolved or your question answered to your satisfaction. If we can assist you further, please respond to this email or call us at 1-800-847-3435 (toll free) between 8:00AM and 8:00PM Eastern Time Monday through Friday or between 9:00AM and 5:00PM Eastern Time on Saturday."

<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

and this a copy and paste from a previous Michelin XPS Rib advertisement that Michelin still recommends.

Michelin® XPS Rib® tires are the best value per mile in the Michelin commercial tire lineup and an ideal choice for commercial trailers because of low rolling resistance (for better fuel economy), a long-wear tread design and retreadability. These tires also have the strength of a reinforced all-steel construction for lasting durability.
Responsive handling helps you negotiate through tough traffic
Greater durability and puncture
resistance from a third steel belt.
Easily retreadable all-steel casing
Lowest cost per mile in this category
Resists sidewall damage with the sculptured sidewall protector.
Sidewall: black serrated
outline lettering.
Load Range: E
Service Description: 120/116Q


Michelin North America
Consumer Care Department :quote

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Hope the ST serves you well. Just remember if you have issue there are better tires out here without the ST issues for that heavy trailer.
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Old 12-04-2012, 01:05 PM   #25
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Interesting reading. Here are some facts
Based on actual weights of thousands of RVs over 50% have one or more tire and or axle in an overload condition. Source RV Safety Education Foundation. I wonder how many peaders or posters on iRV2 know their actual max load on each tire.

ST type tires have a max speed rating of 65 mph according to the Tire & Rim Association. Max speed ratings on tires are much like the red line rev limit on your engine. While it may be possible to run at the limit or even exceed it for a short time I don't think you can find anyone that would advocate for expecting an engine to last a long time if constantly run at its red line.

RV owners seldom if ever file a complaint with the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration so with no complaints on file NHTSA engineers cannot justify initiating an investigation to see if tires made in China or Mexico or Brazil or Illinois or Georgia or in tire plants painted green perform below the published regulations. I have personally inspected tires from all of the above as well as numerous other locations. I have seen tires that will pass a battery of tests much harder than those from DOT from each location. I have also seen tires that "failed" to perform as expected or desired from the same locations so geography is not a good predictor of tire quality.

Some otherwise knowledgeable RV owners who write blogs and have been on TV are not experts on why any individual tire failed and are just as likely to jump to erroneous conclusions as to why a tire failed. Even when presented with facts and physical evidence they are not inclined to change their opinion.

Tires can be damaged and run for many miles before they actually fail, so many times owners do not associate a tire failure with damage done minutes, hours or even days earlier. There are Automotive engineers who cannot tell the difference between a "defective" tire and one that has been damaged by impact from hitting a pot hole or trash on the road.

Owners say the tire must have been inflated properly because they checked it that morning. This would not be much different than saying while on the AlCan highway that the engine must be defective even though a stone holed the radiator and the coolant leaked out because they checked the water level that morning.

I have done well over 20,000 tire "autopsys" in my career so do know a little bit about failed tire analysis. Proper analysis includes cutting and analyzing the evidence. Sometimes chemical analysis is needed and even x-ray and electron microscopic examination is needed to learn the real root cause of a tire failure. I wonder how many of the others making posts on tire failure have access to similar equipment.
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Old 12-04-2012, 08:56 PM   #26
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Tireman9,
Appreciate your professional evaluation--I have no problem with your statements.
Do you have ANY recommendations for tire selection based on all the reports/comments/anecdotes listed in this post?
Joe
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Old 12-05-2012, 01:01 PM   #27
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OK, Here goes.
First you have to remember there is no such thing as a failure proof tire. Under the right conditions I can make any tire fail in under five miles.

Second It is the operators responsibility to ensure that no tire is overloaded and that all tires have the proper inflation for the load being applied to that tire and axle.

Third The operator needs to ensure that there is some margin in both loading and inflation for other conditions such as gauge error, side loading due to wind or cornering or road crown. Many suggest a minimum of 10% on load and at least 5% to 10% on inflation on motorhomes and always setting ST type tires cold inflation at the pressure molded on the sidewall. I suggest ST tires use the published "dual" load because of extreme side loading due to having tandem axles.

Fourth since you can't always avoid road hazards the operator needs to take precautions to not drive on a tire that is loosing air any further than needed to come to a safe stop. I don't know how to do this without having a TPMS and paying attention to the warnings.

Finally since even doing all of the above will not guarantee 100% fail proof operation and no tire production is 100% perfect, you should select the brand not based on the lowest price but should consider the warranty and ease of making a warranty claim.

I have four POSTS on my blog on Quality that expand on this answer. You will also find here at iRV2 a thread with links to various tire company web sites and I would suggest you confirm warranty terms and length and look for the number of outlets that can provide warranty service. If there is only one location for "Billy-Jo-Bob's Cheap Tire and Bate Shop" I don't think you can count on getting good warranty service.

Companies cannot afford to pay out warranty claims so they work hard to make good tires or to have very short warranty time so the opportunity for an owner to make a claim is limited. This is much like the auto and RV industry in general with some companies having a focus on good quality and offering long term warranty like 5 years while other companies only offer 1 year. Do you think the company with the 5 year time needs to ensure better quality than the one with only 12 month warranty?
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Old 12-05-2012, 01:24 PM   #28
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My new trailer came with ST 16" Akuret tires like the OP. The more I read, the more I'm nervous about them.

I for one, don't know much about tires, other than what we see in these posts, so you can understand why some get overly nervous about exploding chinese tires. The stories are everywhere. Do the major US manufacturer's that have these built overseas do actual testing and monitoring, or do they just subcontract them out and hope for the best??

Generally I consider myself cautious. I thought that I was being conservative keeping my weight below the 12,000 for the axles, my speed to 65mph and checking temp every hour or so. On my latest trip, on a 50 degree day, these tires never felt warm to the touch after riding at highway speeds. But running at 65 is maxing them out? How is the average joe to know this? I see plenty of RV's blasting down the highway at 70 to 80 mph.

When it comes to tires, I really couldn't care less about price. I'd be happy to buy too much tire if that's what it would take to have peace of mind. 4000 lbs capacity when 3000 is adequate is fine by be. It's just trying to determine what is the best that is the issue.
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