Go Back   iRV2 Forums > TRAVEL TRAILER, 5th WHEEL & TRUCK CAMPER FORUMS > Trailer Towing and Tow Vehicles Discussion
Click Here to Login
Join iRV2 Today

Mission Statement: Supporting thoughtful exchange of knowledge, values and experience among RV enthusiasts.
Reply
  This discussion is proudly sponsored by:
Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about their products on iRV2
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 10-04-2014, 10:35 PM   #1
Member
 
Radio Flyer's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Jacksonville, FL
Posts: 30
So, tell me again why I canítÖ

So, tell me again why I canít pull a 21,000 lb. 5th wheel with a Ram 3500. According to the manufacturerís specs, I can. Similar posts on this and other forums Iíve seen have gotten wildly inconsistent responses, which is why Iím asking again. Is this a good idea? Is it safe? Strictly be the numbers, and with careful weight management, itís doable. But itís definitely pushing the limits.

Thereís a 2014 Ram 3500 DRW long bed at the local dealership built as if I specíd it out myself. The only limiting factor is the 3.73 axle. That makes the GCWR 32K and the max tow weight 23,250. GVWR is 14K, the published curb weight is 8568, CCC is 5430, and the rear GAWR is 9750.

The GVWR of the 5íver is 21K (as posted on the safety certification label) and CCC is 3995. The dry kingpin weight is not published, but similar floorplans average about 20%, so Iíll assume itís close to 4200 lbs.

Since weíll be soon be living in this trailer full time, most likely itíll be loaded close to capacity. Consequently, to keep within GCWR, the truck now becomes limited to 11K (excluding the pin weight, which is already accounted for in the GCWR computation). But that 4,200 lb kingpin load on the rear axle does indeed effectively reduce the remaining payload capacity to about 1,230 lbs. Two adults, a dog and a cat, a toolbox, a hitch, some miscellaneous cargo and full tank of diesel fuel wonít exceed that limit. That is, of course, if the actual kingpin is indeed only 20% of the loaded trailer weight. And until this rig actually gets on the scales, I canít be sure the rear axle limit isnít exceeded, either.

The good news is I havenít yet bought either the truck or trailer. Thereís still time to reconsider, although I really do like both of these vehicles. Iím hoping that the collective wisdom of those on this forum that have already been there, done that, will help guide my decision process.
__________________

__________________
John & Kelly ~ Former world travelers courtesy of the US Navy
Now domestic nomads in a custom-built 2016 Augusta LUXE 39FB
2015 RAM 4500 Laramie Hauler Bed, Cummins, AISIN, 4x4, Link Air Suspension
Radio Flyer is offline   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 RV Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

iRV2.com RV Community - Are you about to start a new improvement on your RV or need some help with some maintenance? Do you need advice on what products to buy? Or maybe you can give others some advice? No matter where you fit in you'll find that iRV2 is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with other RV owners, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create an RV blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Old 10-05-2014, 12:11 AM   #2
Senior Member
 
Skip426's Avatar


 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Powell River, B.C.
Posts: 14,970
Unfortunately , you are assuming the published curb weight is correct; and with all the numbers you have, you don't know if the RAWR vs the unloaded rear axle weight is sufficient to take the weight of the hitch and the pin weight of the trailer.
I'm not saying , that it wont work, but you need to get the truck to the scales, before you buy, to be sure.
__________________

__________________
99DSDP 3884, Freightliner, XC, CAT 3126B, 300 HP /ALLISON 3060
2000 Caravan toad, Remco & Blue Ox.
Skip426 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2014, 07:46 AM   #3
Senior Member
 
wandering1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: NC
Posts: 450
Send a message via ICQ to wandering1
If the manufacturers tow specs say the tow vehicle is adequate to tow the trailer then go for it if that is what you want and will work with the trailer you want. The "collective wisdom" of forum members is actually personal opinions of expert wannabes. Go with the facts.
__________________
Wandering1
wandering1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2014, 11:08 AM   #4
Senior Member
 
Franka548's Avatar
 
Freightliner Owners Club
Retired Fire Service RVer's
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: N E Ohio
Posts: 3,455
Radio Flyer,
You won't overload the rear axle, even with 4500# pin weight( I know 20% puts pin weight at 4200#), but you could be over on the GVWR of the truck. With the curb weight of the truck at 8500#+, loaded with passengers , hitch and other things, you can figure the truck will weigh 9500#+. With the 4500# pin weight, that puts you right at 14,000#. I'm not saying that you can't do it, but it will be really close to the posted limits of the truck. Until you get actual scale weights, it is just an educated guess.
Frank
__________________
05 Alfa Gold 40' Motor Home "Goldie" 03 Malibu Toad towing 4 down
03 Silverado cclb 3500 drw, D/A, Reese 22k hitch
07 Alfa SeeYa Gold 30RL,2 slides,power everything Above for sale PM me for details
Franka548 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2014, 12:29 PM   #5
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 1,346
Go for it!

i tow a combined load of nearly 29K with a HO 11 Longhorn Dually with 3:43 gears. Lots of rear axle left even with a 4,500# pin weight. Even with the wrong gears it pulls I-5 border to border at 55 or more.

I have been extremely impressed at how solid the truck tows even in 45mph side winds.
__________________
Cummins12V98 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2014, 06:24 PM   #6
Moderator Emeritus
 
SmokeyWren's Avatar


 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Midland County, Texas
Posts: 3,328
Quote:
Originally Posted by Radio Flyer View Post
So, tell me again why I can’t pull a 21,000 lb. 5th wheel with a Ram 3500.
Because you'll be overloaded, or so close to the max weight limits that you'll have to spend a lot of time and worry to prevent exceeding the weight limits of your Ram.

But this is a major investment, so why not slow down, smell the roses, and order exactly the truck you need to get the job done right. 3500 ain't it. You need at least a 4500 diesel with the Aisin tranny, and if you go that far you might as well build in some safety margin and get a 5500.

2014 Ram 5500 Chassis Cab LARAMIE CREW 4X4 173.4" WB, your choice of axle ratio (I'd probably choose 4.10 for that rig = 4.10 Rear Axle Ratio $125 )
AISIN Heavy Duty 6-Speed Automatic Transmission $1,445
6.7L Cumminsģ Turbo Diesel w/Exhaust Brake $7,790
Trailer Brake Control $230
Chrome Tubular Side Steps $525
220-Amp Alternator $150
Cold Weather Group $90
-------------------
MSRP $64,055 net price
===============

That's a chassis cab without a bed yet. Western Hauler's sexy tow body lists for about $7,000 installed, if you don't order too many fancy doo-dads to customize it So a bit over $71k MSRP. But nobody pays MSRP, so you can probably talk your Ram dealer into somewhere south of 65k + TT&L out the door.
http://www.westernhauler.com/

2014 Ram Chassis Cab - Heavy Duty Commercial Work Trucks

But the 2015s are being built now, so pay a few more bucks and have one of the first 2015 Ram 5500 Western Haulers in your neck of the woods. You'll be proud of it.
__________________
Grumpy ole man with over 50 years towing experience. Now my heaviest trailer is a 7,000-pound enclosed cargo trailer, RV is a 5,600 pound Skyline Nomad Joey 196S, and my tow vehicle is a 2012 F-150 3.5L EcoBoost SuperCrew.
SmokeyWren is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2014, 06:25 PM   #7
Senior Member
 
jimcumminsw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Oswego IL
Posts: 1,257
Check out the Ram body builders guide.com, this will provide the proper information for your towing needs. The only real problem that I see is your driver licensee; will this have the proper classification for towing that much mass.

I know that my licensee would not allow me to tow that mass. Just my .02 cents.

Jim W.
__________________
Jim & Jill
Sold: 2010 318SAB Cougar:New: 2016 Cedar Creek 34RL. 2008 Dodge 6.7LCummins the original 6.7L engine, w/68RFE Auto
jimcumminsw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2014, 07:40 PM   #8
Senior Member
 
sknight's Avatar
 
Appalachian Campers
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 908
Let me get this straight. You have a 2,250 buffer on towing weight IF you max out the trailer, 1,200 pounds for you, the wife and other stuff?

Stop sweating and go camping. You're in such good shape it's a no brainer.

I mean seriously, where are you going to put 3,300 pounds of stuff in the camper? You're going to put about 1,000 pounds of stuff in it, on average.

I don't see what the concern is, you won't be close to going over.
__________________
2001 HO Cummins powered Dodge 2500
2014 Sierra 346RETS
Nights camped in 2014-28
sknight is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2014, 08:51 PM   #9
Senior Member
 
terry735001's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 1,158
Blog Entries: 11
just ask your self this

your driving down the road and you come on just a 6% grade
there is a crash and you have to stop and all your brakes work like they should
the road is now closed and you have to put it in park and take your foot off the brake

what is holding you back from now rolling down this hill ?

one park pal and one rear axle
__________________
terry735001 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-06-2014, 07:45 AM   #10
Senior Member
 
jimcumminsw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Oswego IL
Posts: 1,257
Quote:
Originally Posted by terry735001 View Post
just ask your self this

your driving down the road and you come on just a 6% grade
there is a crash and you have to stop and all your brakes work like they should
the road is now closed and you have to put it in park and take your foot off the brake

what is holding you back from now rolling down this hill ?

one park pal and one rear axle
What are you saying?
If this was me I would turn the steering wheels to the inside if going down hill and set the parking brake just like an 80,000 LB semi-trailer would. If you are that concerned you should stay home and never pull or drive an RV ever.

Jim W.
__________________
Jim & Jill
Sold: 2010 318SAB Cougar:New: 2016 Cedar Creek 34RL. 2008 Dodge 6.7LCummins the original 6.7L engine, w/68RFE Auto
jimcumminsw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-06-2014, 08:02 AM   #11
Senior Member
 
jimcumminsw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Oswego IL
Posts: 1,257
Quote:
Originally Posted by SmokeyWren View Post
Because you'll be overloaded, or so close to the max weight limits that you'll have to spend a lot of time and worry to prevent exceeding the weight limits of your Ram.

But this is a major investment, so why not slow down, smell the roses, and order exactly the truck you need to get the job done right. 3500 ain't it. You need at least a 4500 diesel with the Aisin tranny, and if you go that far you might as well build in some safety margin and get a 5500.

2014 Ram 5500 Chassis Cab LARAMIE CREW 4X4 173.4" WB, your choice of axle ratio (I'd probably choose 4.10 for that rig = 4.10 Rear Axle Ratio $125 )
AISIN Heavy Duty 6-Speed Automatic Transmission $1,445
6.7L Cumminsģ Turbo Diesel w/Exhaust Brake $7,790
Trailer Brake Control $230
Chrome Tubular Side Steps $525
220-Amp Alternator $150
Cold Weather Group $90
-------------------
MSRP $64,055 net price
===============

That's a chassis cab without a bed yet. Western Hauler's sexy tow body lists for about $7,000 installed, if you don't order too many fancy doo-dads to customize it So a bit over $71k MSRP. But nobody pays MSRP, so you can probably talk your Ram dealer into somewhere south of 65k + TT&L out the door.
Western Hauler - "The True Choice of Champions"

2014 Ram Chassis Cab - Heavy Duty Commercial Work Trucks

But the 2015s are being built now, so pay a few more bucks and have one of the first 2015 Ram 5500 Western Haulers in your neck of the woods. You'll be proud of it.
SmokeyWren:

According to the Ram Body builder's guide a 5500 with the Cummins and Aisin transmission with the 4:10 rear end is rated for only: GVWR 18,000 LBS, GCWR is 26,000 LBS and the max trailer towing is only 16,950 LBS. The unit with the 4:88 rear end will not even tow more than the 3500 similar equipped with the 4:10 rear end according to the design team charts. Again I always refer to the Ram Body Builders Guide for my information.
What I compared was a Crew cab truck 4X4 DRW and the 6.7L Cummins and the AISIN transmission with the 4:10 gear set. The 3500, 2500 and 1500 trucks do meet the SAE J2807 towing standards; so I am confident in the published towing numbers from RAM.

Jim W.
__________________
Jim & Jill
Sold: 2010 318SAB Cougar:New: 2016 Cedar Creek 34RL. 2008 Dodge 6.7LCummins the original 6.7L engine, w/68RFE Auto
jimcumminsw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-06-2014, 03:54 PM   #12
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 2,207
Quote:
Originally Posted by sknight View Post
Let me get this straight. You have a 2,250 buffer on towing weight IF you max out the trailer, 1,200 pounds for you, the wife and other stuff?

Stop sweating and go camping. You're in such good shape it's a no brainer.

I mean seriously, where are you going to put 3,300 pounds of stuff in the camper? You're going to put about 1,000 pounds of stuff in it, on average.

I don't see what the concern is, you won't be close to going over.
He did say he was going to start full timing with it. We have 1500lbs as just weekenders or long week vacations. I could easily take another 500-750lbs if full timing. I've read to figure 1000lbs per person for FT. I've stayed at enough high end RV parks and seen plenty of RV'rs with 40' MH and their basements full of all kinds of stuff.
__________________
Cumminsfan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-06-2014, 06:01 PM   #13
Senior Member
 
caissiel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 1,312
we are full timing and I weighted everything we carry and the total is less then 1000 lbs.That includes my wife's special diet foods. so I have no worries traveling with a full tank of FW.
__________________
Barbara and Laurent, Hartland Big Country 3500RL. 39 ft long and 15500 GVW.
2005 Ford F250 SD, XL F250 4x4, Long Box, 6.0L Diesel, 6 Speed Stick, Hypertech Max Energy for Fuel mileage of 21 MPusG empty, 12.6 MPusG pulling the BC. ScangaugeII for display..
caissiel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-06-2014, 08:11 PM   #14
Senior Member
 
sknight's Avatar
 
Appalachian Campers
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 908
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cumminsfan View Post
He did say he was going to start full timing with it. We have 1500lbs as just weekenders or long week vacations. I could easily take another 500-750lbs if full timing. I've read to figure 1000lbs per person for FT. I've stayed at enough high end RV parks and seen plenty of RV'rs with 40' MH and their basements full of all kinds of stuff.
And he's still 2,250lbs under the stated towing limit if he maxes it out at 3,300lbs of stuff.

If his stated numbers are correct he's fine.
__________________

__________________
2001 HO Cummins powered Dodge 2500
2014 Sierra 346RETS
Nights camped in 2014-28
sknight is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


» Virginia Campgrounds

Reviews provided by


Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 04:23 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.