Community Forums

RustyJC · 01-27-2014, 10:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jack Mayer

Most states that have upgraded licenses use GVWR of the combination of the vehicles to determine the license class. Not actual weight, and not GCWR of the truck.

The above is NOT the case in Texas.

First, from the Texas Transporation Code, the definition of GCWR and GVWR (added emphasis mine):

Quote:

Sec. 522.003. DEFINITIONS.
In this chapter:
.
.
(17) "Gross combination weight rating" means the value specified by the manufacturer as the loaded weight of a combination or articulated vehicle or, if the manufacturer has not specified a value, the sum of the gross vehicle weight rating of the power unit and the total weight of the towed unit or units and any load on a towed unit.
(18) "Gross vehicle weight rating" means the value specified by the manufacturer as the loaded weight of a single vehicle.

Now, the application of GCWR and GVWR to exempt (non-CDL) Texas driver license classes:

Quote:

SUBCHAPTER D. CLASSIFICATION OF DRIVER'S LICENSES

Sec. 521.081. CLASS A LICENSE.

A Class A driver's license authorizes the holder of the license to operate:
(1) a vehicle with a gross vehicle weight rating of 26,001 pounds or more; or
(2) a combination of vehicles that has a gross combination weight rating of 26,001 pounds or more, if the gross vehicle weight rating of any vehicle or vehicles in tow is more than 10,000 pounds.

Acts 1995, 74th Leg., ch. 165, Sec. 1, eff. Sept. 1, 1995.

Sec. 521.082. CLASS B LICENSE.

(a) A Class B driver's license authorizes the holder of the license to operate:
(1) a vehicle with a gross vehicle weight rating that is more than 26,000 pounds;
(2) a vehicle with a gross vehicle weight rating of 26,000 pounds or more towing:
(A) a vehicle, other than a farm trailer, with a gross vehicle weight rating that is not more than 10,000 pounds; or
(B) a farm trailer with a gross vehicle weight rating that is not more than 20,000 pounds; and
(3) a bus with a seating capacity of 24 passengers or more.

(b) For the purposes of Subsection (a)(3), seating capacity is computed in accordance with Section 502.162, except that the operator's seat is included in the computation.

Acts 1995, 74th Leg., ch. 165, Sec. 1, eff. Sept. 1, 1995.

Sec. 521.083. CLASS C LICENSE.

A Class C driver's license authorizes the holder of the license to operate:
(1) a vehicle or combination of vehicles not described by Section 521.081 or 521.082; and
(2) a vehicle with a gross vehicle weight rating of less than 26,001 pounds towing a farm trailer with a gross vehicle weight rating that is not more than 20,000 pounds.

Acts 1995, 74th Leg., ch. 165, Sec. 1, eff. Sept. 1, 1995.

Rusty

dbear · 01-27-2014, 10:32 AM

Jack, my post was simply a tangent to the original licensing question. My intent was to point out that there are differences in driver licenses state to state (it had nothing to do with reciprocity for I thought that was understood), and that even when trying to comply with your state's licensing laws, it seems that modern truck and RV manufacturers make it very easy to unintentionally violate one law while attempting to comply with another. I was not asking any question, merely making an observation.

JIMNLIN · 01-27-2014, 08:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by M2D

If your home state where your trailer is registered does not require a "higher" license for a trailer over 10,000 pounds will you be in trouble for having only the usual driver's license in states that require the higher level license?

Thanks,

Michele

.
Many states like mine have no weight to register our private use vehicles at (truck or trailer). The only thing my state is concerned with is the out of state vehicle is legally registered in its home state.

My state simply uses a class D operators license for operating any size private use vehicle. As long as you have a valid drivers license from your home state you may go through any state or province.

Jack Mayer · 01-28-2014, 11:54 AM

You are right, Rusty, assuming the manuf. specifies a GCWR. And if they do not then the GVWR of each vehicle is summed to get the rating. So it seems we are both right. One thing to note, though, is that the GCWR for most trucks is not on the data plate. At least it was not on my Fords. It is, however, on my Volvo. It is 120,000lbs.

RustyJC · 01-28-2014, 12:02 PM

Nope, the GCWR is not required to be on the driver's door plate of pickups, so you'd better be ready to prove it. The GCWR of my truck is 26,000 lbs - a common rating to avoid the Class A requirement which starts at 26,001 lbs. (if towing a trailer over 10,000 lbs). I carry the table showing the manufacturer's GCWR in the console of my truck if the need should ever arise.

Rusty

dbear · 01-29-2014, 07:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RustyJC

Nope, the GCWR is not required to be on the driver's door plate of pickups, so you'd better be ready to prove it. The GCWR of my truck is 26,000 lbs - a common rating to avoid the Class A requirement which starts at 26,001 lbs. (if towing a trailer over 10,000 lbs). I carry the table showing the manufacturer's GCWR in the console of my truck if the need should ever arise.

Rusty

That's kind of my point. Today's 1 ton duallies are all over 26k published gcwr. So if you live in a state with similar licensing rules as mine and intend to pull any trailer over 10k, you're faced with relocating to another state (not an option right now); jump thru hoops and pay outrageous $$ not only initially, but also periodically, to have the proper license (CDL B in NY); driving an older tow vehicle; or driving "illegally".

I mused earlier about just why they chose the magical numbers they did. I've inquired with local dmv, but to date, the only answer I ever get is "That's what it's always been." I didn't take that crap from my college professors. Just as with other areas of the law, technology has forced many changes. The dmv needs to man up, admit they are behind the times, and make changes. In my mind, if you can legally drive a class of vehicle at it's max gvwr, you should be able to legally operate same vehicle at it's manufacturer published gcwr.

RustyJC · 01-29-2014, 08:13 AM

I believe the states took the 26,001 lb break point from DOT commercial regulations. If the Federal statutes changed, then perhaps the state statutes would eventually as well. If the Federal statues don't, then I suspect it will stay at 26,001 lbs.

Rusty

wa8yxm · 01-29-2014, 09:44 AM

IN all 50 states plus a couple of possessions and selected Canadian Provences (Not sure about all of those or Mexico)

If you are PROPERLY LICENSED for the vehicle you are operating at home, You are Properly Licensed period.. All the states and so on respect the home state license.. As the home state does theirs.

However, if your home state has a rule "Any vehicle over 26000 pounds needs a CDL" for example. and your rig tips the scales at 26001.. You may have a problem epically in red-lined areas (AAA map underlines some places in red, AVOID those)

dbear · 01-29-2014, 10:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wa8yxm

IN all 50 states plus a couple of possessions and selected Canadian Provences (Not sure about all of those or Mexico)

If you are PROPERLY LICENSED for the vehicle you are operating at home, You are Properly Licensed period.. All the states and so on respect the home state license.. As the home state does theirs.

However, if your home state has a rule "Any vehicle over 26000 pounds needs a CDL" for example. and your rig tips the scales at 26001.. You may have a problem epically in red-lined areas (AAA map underlines some places in red, AVOID those)

The issue I keep talking about is that it is very easy to be in violation of licensing laws within one's home state due to truck and rv manufacturing specs. Case in point, a 2014 F250, when properly equipped, has a gvwr = 10k and a max trailer rating = 16.8k. However, its gcwr is only 23.5k. So if, as has been stated, you tow a trailer in excess of 13.5k, you will be in violation of the published gcwr. And if you max out the trailer at 16.8k, you will be in violation of the 26k rule, or basically driving without a license, as well as being in excess of the gcwr, all the while staying within the manufacturer's published tow ratings.

wandering1 · 01-30-2014, 05:56 AM

Contact the states and ask.

caissiel · 01-31-2014, 06:24 PM

I look at axle ratings.
My truck is under 12 k and the trailer is 14k. So i am under the 26k rating.
So if I get question it's what my rated combined load is.
At least in my Province.

Possum · 01-31-2014, 06:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dbear

The issue I keep talking about is that it is very easy to be in violation of licensing laws within one's home state due to truck and rv manufacturing specs. Case in point, a 2014 F250, when properly equipped, has a gvwr = 10k and a max trailer rating = 16.8k. However, its gcwr is only 23.5k. So if, as has been stated, you tow a trailer in excess of 13.5k, you will be in violation of the published gcwr. And if you max out the trailer at 16.8k, you will be in violation of the 26k rule, or basically driving without a license, as well as being in excess of the gcwr, all the while staying within the manufacturer's published tow ratings.

I can legally tow anything with my standard (nothing special) drivers license here in BC and that has a reciprocal agreement with all 9 provinces, 3 territories and all the states north and south. The only thing I can't do, and neither can anyone else, is to tow double private registered vehicles like you can in most other places. I had to rescue a buddy from Ohio when he got to the border on a north visit when he found out his tow vehicle, 35 foot fifth wheel and 24 foot boat were not legal for him to tow in BC. So not all rules are reciprocal.

Us out West · 01-31-2014, 06:53 PM

We are registered in our home state (NV) for Class A designation, (not a CDL as we are not for hire) and therefore no questions.

dbear · 02-01-2014, 06:52 AM

Yeah, like I said, I gotta move. NY does not offer any non-CDL licenses. So to be "legal" operating a TV with >10k trailer & gcwr >26k as a NY licensed driver, you have to have either a class B (single unit >26k) or class A (semi). Both are CDLs and subject to all the federal-mandated hoops, increased fees, and additional restrictions you'd expect. The stupid thing is, with the RV endorsement on my regular class D, I can legally operate a 33k gvw motorhome & tow 10k behind it, but I can't, again legally, operate any class 4 or greater TV while towing >10k (actually only 9500 if asked to produce gvwr for truck and trailer) without being over the magical 26k limit, despite that the truck is rated from the manufacturer at 30k, or more.