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Old 06-11-2014, 07:43 AM   #1
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Suggestions for TV with New 5th Wheel

Well we pulled the trigger and ordered our new fifth wheel, a Heartland Gateway 3650BH. Here are the specs, GVWR 15500, Dry Weight 12999, Hitch Weight 2020 and Carrying Capacity 2501. Here's my question, my budget ($30000) puts me in a used truck 2008 to 2011. I would appreciate any and all suggestions on what to look for and also what to avoid.

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Old 06-11-2014, 08:42 AM   #2
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Look for a truck that is capable of towing your trailer. Refer to the towing specs for the truck to pick the one you need. Contact the truck manufacturer for the towing specs. Get the facts, do not rely on personal opinions. You are legally responsible for having an adequate tow vehicle.
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Old 06-11-2014, 09:51 AM   #3
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Look for a truck that is capable of towing your trailer. Refer to the towing specs for the truck to pick the one you need. Contact the truck manufacturer for the towing specs. Get the facts, do not rely on personal opinions. You are legally responsible for having an adequate tow vehicle.
Understood. I am planning on getting a one ton, DRW diesel. Guess what I was looking for was recommendations, models or years to avoid, etc.
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Old 06-11-2014, 11:39 AM   #4
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Well we pulled the trigger and ordered our new fifth wheel, a Heartland Gateway 3650BH. Here are the specs, GVWR 15500, Dry Weight 12999, Hitch Weight 2020 and Carrying Capacity 2501.
You will be overloaded with any pickup with single rear wheels (SRW). So don't even think about trying to tow that trailer without a dually. And even some duallies will be overloaded with that trailer. So pay attention to the specs of the truck.

Assume your trailer will be loaded to the gills by the third RV trip. So the max trailer weight will be 15,500. The wet and loaded dually will gross at least 9,000 pounds before you tie onto the trailer, so 9,000 plus 15,500 means you need a dually with a minimum of 24,500 pounds GCWR,

The dry hitch weight of that trailer is only 15.5% of the dry trailer weight, so you can probably use 17% as the estimate for the wet and loaded hitch weight. 15,500 times 0.17 = 2,635 estimated hitch weight. But most 5ers that size have almost 20% wet and loaded hitch weight, so I would round that 2,635 up to at least 2,750 for your estimated hitch weight.

A wet and loaded dually is probably going to weigh at least 9,000 pounds, plus 2,750 hitch weight = 11,750 minimum GVW. But if you opt for a CrewCab 4x4 diesel, then plan on closer to 10,000 pounds truck weight. So your truck needs a minimum GVWR of 12,750 pounds GVWR.

I prefer Fords, and preferably with a diesel engine and 2011-up model years. Per KBB.com, you probably cannot find a 2011 Ford F-350 DRW CrewCab with XLT or better trim and 4x2 drivetrain for $30k. Back off to a SuperCab with XL trim and that's a bit less than $30k - you might even be able to find a 4x4 for $30k. But a SuperCab XL means you'll probably be looking at fleet work vehicles and not privately-owned vehicles. So you may have to raise your $30k max a few thou to get a nice 2011 F-350 DRW CrewCab with XLT or better trim and 4x2 drivetrain, or even more if you want a 4x4.

2011 F-350 DRW CrewCab diesel has GCWR 0f 13,000 pounds and GCWR of 29,000 pounds, so that's plenty for your requirements.

2008 thru 2010 F-350 diesel engines were the 6.4L diesel designed and built by International (Navistar), and tweaked by Ford engineers. Those are fine, but not as good as the 2011 up Ford 6.7L diesels. KBB says you can buy a 2009 F-350 DRW Lariat CrewCab 4x4 with 75,000 miles on it from a dealer for less than $30k. So I would look hard for a 2011, but would settle on a 2009 or 2010 if necessary.

The 2008 thru 2010 F-350 DRW diesels with the optional TowBoss pkg had GCWR of 26,000 pounds and GVWR of 13,000 pounds. Plenty for your requirements. However, without the TowBoss pkg, the GCWR was only 23,500 = not quite enough pulling power for your wet and loaded trailer. So if you decide on a 2008 thru 2010 F-350 DRW, then be certain it has the TowBoss pkg.

The Tow Boss pkg required F-350 DRW diesel, automagic tranny and the integrated trailer brake controller (ITBC). It included increased GCWR to 26k and 4.10 limited slip axle. There were a lot of them produced, but most duallies did NOT have that option, so pay attention if you get a 2008 thru 2010 Ford dually.

I don't know much about Rams and GMs, so I'll not comment on those.
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Old 06-11-2014, 01:16 PM   #5
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It is not what you can tow but what you can carry. SRW trucks get maxed out or overloaded fast once you put 2 to 3k pounds in the bed of the truck. Especially small 3/4 ton trucks.

A typical 5th wheel plus hitch will put at least 2500 lbs in the bed. So a truck that weighs 7,800 lbs empty will weigh 11,500 pounds when you drop a 5th wheel onto it.
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Old 06-11-2014, 03:08 PM   #6
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Understood. I am planning on getting a one ton, DRW diesel. Guess what I was looking for was recommendations, models or years to avoid, etc.
Sounds like you have the right idea already as to size.

As far as make and model, I would recommend that you stay away from any make/model that is it's first year of a remodel or new engine design. Not all are going to be a problem, but generally, they need to work out the bugs in the first year.
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Old 06-11-2014, 03:37 PM   #7
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SmokeyWren,

I want to compliment you on your outstanding, factual, well researched reply!
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Old 06-11-2014, 03:49 PM   #8
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Any of the late model big 3 trucks will do the job. I perfer the Dodge Cummins turb combo. Best torque and fuel economy. They all will have lovers and haters. .go drive them all several times.
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Old 06-11-2014, 05:39 PM   #9
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SmokeyWren,

I want to compliment you on your outstanding, factual, well researched reply!
Thanx for the flowers, Loraura. I try. Just trying to pass on some of the knowledge I've gained since I bought my first camper in 1968.
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Old 06-11-2014, 05:51 PM   #10
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Don't forget to weigh the DW, dog, tools, firewood, bikes, water, food or anything else you add to the weight of the truck. That stuff can add up to 200lbs. easy.

So in my previous math I add 200lbs w/o mentioning it but this is the other kind of stuff you need to add.
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Old 06-11-2014, 06:36 PM   #11
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Dodge cummins engine is great. Not sure of the trans.!
The early ones had front end problems. Not heavy enough to Carry the cummins!
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Old 06-11-2014, 06:57 PM   #12
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Yes the 48re up to 2007 transmission is junk. The new (Asin?) Is suposed to be great. Ball joints in earlier trucks were a problem also. I love my dodge and would buy another
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Old 06-11-2014, 07:41 PM   #13
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You will be overloaded with any pickup with single rear wheels (SRW). So don't even think about trying to tow that trailer without a dually. And even some duallies will be overloaded with that trailer. So pay attention to the specs of the truck.

Assume your trailer will be loaded to the gills by the third RV trip. So the max trailer weight will be 15,500. The wet and loaded dually will gross at least 9,000 pounds before you tie onto the trailer, so 9,000 plus 15,500 means you need a dually with a minimum of 24,500 pounds GCWR,

The dry hitch weight of that trailer is only 15.5% of the dry trailer weight, so you can probably use 17% as the estimate for the wet and loaded hitch weight. 15,500 times 0.17 = 2,635 estimated hitch weight. But most 5ers that size have almost 20% wet and loaded hitch weight, so I would round that 2,635 up to at least 2,750 for your estimated hitch weight.

A wet and loaded dually is probably going to weigh at least 9,000 pounds, plus 2,750 hitch weight = 11,750 minimum GVW. But if you opt for a CrewCab 4x4 diesel, then plan on closer to 10,000 pounds truck weight. So your truck needs a minimum GVWR of 12,750 pounds GVWR.

I prefer Fords, and preferably with a diesel engine and 2011-up model years. Per KBB.com, you probably cannot find a 2011 Ford F-350 DRW CrewCab with XLT or better trim and 4x2 drivetrain for $30k. Back off to a SuperCab with XL trim and that's a bit less than $30k - you might even be able to find a 4x4 for $30k. But a SuperCab XL means you'll probably be looking at fleet work vehicles and not privately-owned vehicles. So you may have to raise your $30k max a few thou to get a nice 2011 F-350 DRW CrewCab with XLT or better trim and 4x2 drivetrain, or even more if you want a 4x4.

2011 F-350 DRW CrewCab diesel has GCWR 0f 13,000 pounds and GCWR of 29,000 pounds, so that's plenty for your requirements.

2008 thru 2010 F-350 diesel engines were the 6.4L diesel designed and built by International (Navistar), and tweaked by Ford engineers. Those are fine, but not as good as the 2011 up Ford 6.7L diesels. KBB says you can buy a 2009 F-350 DRW Lariat CrewCab 4x4 with 75,000 miles on it from a dealer for less than $30k. So I would look hard for a 2011, but would settle on a 2009 or 2010 if necessary.

The 2008 thru 2010 F-350 DRW diesels with the optional TowBoss pkg had GCWR of 26,000 pounds and GVWR of 13,000 pounds. Plenty for your requirements. However, without the TowBoss pkg, the GCWR was only 23,500 = not quite enough pulling power for your wet and loaded trailer. So if you decide on a 2008 thru 2010 F-350 DRW, then be certain it has the TowBoss pkg.

The Tow Boss pkg required F-350 DRW diesel, automagic tranny and the integrated trailer brake controller (ITBC). It included increased GCWR to 26k and 4.10 limited slip axle. There were a lot of them produced, but most duallies did NOT have that option, so pay attention if you get a 2008 thru 2010 Ford dually.

I don't know much about Rams and GMs, so I'll not comment on those.

100% exaggerated and wrong. A SRW F350 diesel weighs in at less than 8500 fueled up, loaded up, and ready to tow. So you easily have 3k for pin weight. We tow our 30C that has a touch over 3k on the pin and GVWR of 16k with the truck in my sig. Handles it 100% like it's not back there and we've towed it a lot. Heading to 10k miles now through all kinds of hills, crosswinds, etc. Sits level when hooked up and never sways. A 350/3500 SRW is a perfect match for the trailer in question without following the fear mongering that people on this site spread. So, don't even think about NEEDING a dually because you don't. If you want one, that's your decision. As to a recommendation, go for a 2011 6.7 F350, go camping, and enjoy...
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Old 06-11-2014, 08:41 PM   #14
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100% exaggerated and wrong. A SRW F350 diesel weighs in at less than 8500 fueled up, loaded up, and ready to tow. So you easily have 3k for pin weight. We tow our 30C that has a touch over 3k on the pin and GVWR of 16k with the truck in my sig. Handles it 100% like it's not back there and we've towed it a lot. Heading to 10k miles now through all kinds of hills, crosswinds, etc. Sits level when hooked up and never sways. A 350/3500 SRW is a perfect match for the trailer in question without following the fear mongering that people on this site spread. So, don't even think about NEEDING a dually because you don't. If you want one, that's your decision. As to a recommendation, go for a 2011 6.7 F350, go camping, and enjoy...
Fully agree
I have a similar Heartland trailer and have been towing it 40k miles with my 2005 F250.
Its about the max for SRW but very solid performer.
The towing of Heartland trailer has been easier then the previous 12600 lbs unit.
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