Surprised by F 150-250 difference

[DaveTN]

Was having service done on the Expedition and was perusing trucks at our local mega-Ford dealer.

Looking at an "equal" 150 and 250, same axle ratio, heavy duty towing, tire size, etc. there was not a big difference in towing, maybe 2500 pounds. I was surprised by this somewhat small difference, although the price was only about 5,000 different as well. Anyone else surprised by this?

[bgholson]

I have always driven 3/4 ton Chev trucks and have also been surprised to see over the past years how 1/2 ton trucks are now carrying almost the same rating and get better gas mileage. 2 new 1/2 ford trucks at the hunting camp this weekend. Good looking trucks with V6 turbo that will almost match my truck's pulling capabilites. I fugure my next one will be a 1/2 ton....but not sure I can go Ford!!

[tuffr2]

What I never paid attention to was the weight of the trucks. A F-150 weighs 5,700 lbs while the F-250 weighs 7,700 lbs.

Also the new trucks cost a ton of money. Maybe that will be the new nomenclature.
1/2 ton of money vs 3/4 ton of money etc.

I am amazed how nice all trucks are now. They ride good, no rattles or squeaks. Lots of options. The Ram 1500 rides like a car, the Ram 2500 diesel with the Ram Box is my favorite. Now Chevy with the new 2014 1500. Ford's eco-boost, Ram's Hemi, Chevy's new direct injected engines. Yippee !!!

New stiffer frame on the Ram 2014 HD trucks. Chevy's frame new in 2011. I saw the old frame next to the 2011 frame. Wow - looked like the new frame was on steroids. All the diesel engines now more powerful. All the gas engines more powerful...it is a great time for trucks!!!

Not sure if this trend can continue but I sure hope so.

[CD]

Originally Posted by tuffr2

What I never paid attention to was the weight of the trucks. A F-150 weighs 5,700 lbs while the F-250 weighs 7,700 lbs.

Also the new trucks cost a ton of money. Maybe that will be the new nomenclature.
1/2 ton of money vs 3/4 ton of money etc.

I am amazed how nice all trucks are now. They ride good, no rattles or squeaks. Lots of options. The Ram 1500 rides like a car, the Ram 2500 diesel with the Ram Box is my favorite. Now Chevy with the new 2014 1500. Ford's eco-boost, Ram's Hemi, Chevy's new direct injected engines. Yippee !!!

New stiffer frame on the Ram 2014 HD trucks. Chevy's frame new in 2011. I saw the old frame next to the 2011 frame. Wow - looked like the new frame was on steroids. All the diesel engines now more powerful. All the gas engines more powerful...it is a great time for trucks!!!

Not sure if this trend can continue but I sure hope so.

That 2K more weight in the 3/4T goes a long way towards preventing the tail wagging the dog.

[RustyJC]

Personally, I fear that a lot of this is reaction to the Toyota Tundra syndrome. The Tundra (a 1/2 ton truck) came out with some 10K+ trailer tow ratings that, to Toyota's credit, were subsequently rescinded when the SAE J2807 trailer towing standard seemed like it was going to go into effect (that's ANOTHER long story). It seems that put the pressure on the other manufacturers to get competitive with their 1/2 ton towing ratings.

As Cliff alluded to, WHY is there a 2000 lb weight difference between the 1/2 and 3/4 ton trucks? Perhaps much of it is frame size and resulting strength, brake size, the difference between a semi-floating and full-floating rear axle, drivetrain (engine, transmission and driveshaft) size and strength, larger radiators & engine/transmission oil coolers, etc. That being the case, wouldn't the weight differential seem to indicate that the 3/4 ton truck is sized to handle the loads and stresses of towing much more adequately than the 1/2 ton truck?

Rusty

[Cumminsfan]

The big difference between the two is payload. The F150 may say you can tow 11,300lbs but you won't have the payload capacity to handle the tongue weight. The F250 on the other hand will hande it better and also handle the towing better. To me 1/2 tons are over priced. Too many people get caught up in tow ratings when payload is the bigger determining factor in what you can tow. Most F150's have a payload capacity around 14-1500lbs. F250's are in the 23-2700lb range. With a 8-9000lb travel trailer you'll have a tongue weight around 1020lbs. Now factor in 100lbs for a good WD hitch, people at 400lbs and whatever else and your maxed on the payload with the F150, but still have plenty with the F250. It's much easier to tow at the linit with an F250 than an F150.

[DaveTN]

Originally Posted by Cumminsfan

The big difference between the two is payload. The F150 may say you can tow 11,300lbs but you won't have the payload capacity to handle the tongue weight. The F250 on the other hand will hande it better and also handle the towing better. To me 1/2 tons are over priced. Too many people get caught up in tow ratings when payload is the bigger determining factor in what you can tow. Most F150's have a payload capacity around 14-1500lbs. F250's are in the 23-2700lb range. With a 8-9000lb travel trailer you'll have a tongue weight around 1020lbs. Now factor in 100lbs for a good WD hitch, people at 400lbs and whatever else and your maxed on the payload with the F150, but still have plenty with the F250. It's much easier to tow at the linit with an F250 than an F150.

How does this relate to 5th wheels? Just interested.

[RustyJC]

It's a more significant factor with 5th wheels since they carry (and transfer to the truck as payload) around 20% of their loaded weight as pin weight compared to 12% or so tongue weight of a TT.

Rusty

[myredracer]

We recently upgraded from an older 2000 F150 to a newer 2009 F250. Amazing improvement. Would not go back to an F150. The 250s have better brakes, beefier chassis and stronger suspension. I find the F250 is a lot more stable on the road and stops better.

You need to consider the payload capacity, max. tongue weight, axle ratings, tire ratings and GVWR between the two. You can't just go by the max. towing capacity alone. A lot of folks have bought flashy new F150s on the basis of the towing capacity alone only to find that their truck is not capable of towing their trailers without overloading them.

As a side note, I don't like the "1/2 ton towable" label some trailer manufacturers are putting on their units. Too many dealers will sell you trailers much too big for their 1/2 tons.

[tuffr2]

I should have mentioned I agree that the 2,000 additional pounds of a 3/4 ton truck over a 1/2 ton truck is very well used. I was not knocking it at all.

[myredracer]

Not trying to knock anything. It's just nice to see folks trying to be educated consumers and not be sucked in by vehicle and trailer manufacturers. I know I've learned a lot about towing and payload capacities in the past year from reading forums like this one. The ballpark increase in payload capacity of a 3/4 vs 1/2 would another 500 lbs (1/4 of 2,000 lbs). Not a humongous amount in itself, but it can make all the difference in what you can tow or put in the truck.

It's interesting to look at the payload capacity penalties when you factor in the weights of supercab or crewcab, long box, 4WD, canopy, bed liner, hitch shank, etc. A 3/4 ton may not have the extra payload capacity you'd think it would. I can't wait to get our "new" F250 and new trailer to a CAT scale to see how it really weighs out and what the true payload capacity is.

[Cumminsfan]

Originally Posted by DaveTN

How does this relate to 5th wheels? Just interested.

Same way. Go buy an 8,000lb 5th wheel and see which one has the better payload for pin weight. Maxtow F150 with 3.73's has the tow rating but not enough for pin.

[Cumminsfan]

Originally Posted by myredracer

Not trying to knock anything. It's just nice to see folks trying to be educated consumers and not be sucked in by vehicle and trailer manufacturers. I know I've learned a lot about towing and payload capacities in the past year from reading forums like this one. The ballpark increase in payload capacity of a 3/4 vs 1/2 would another 500 lbs (1/4 of 2,000 lbs). Not a humongous amount in itself, but it can make all the difference in what you can tow or put in the truck.

It's interesting to look at the payload capacity penalties when you factor in the weights of supercab or crewcab, long box, 4WD, canopy, bed liner, hitch shank, etc. A 3/4 ton may not have the extra payload capacity you'd think it would. I can't wait to get our "new" F250 and new trailer to a CAT scale to see how it really weighs out and what the true payload capacity is.

Very true, all 250's aren't created equal. I read a road test of a 2011 F250 Lariat with the 6.7 diesel and it only had a payload of 1970lbs. May be due to the weight of the 6.7 and the 20" tires. My Ram 2500 is on the low side at 2176lbs but at least I can work with the 6000lb RAWR. F150's are only rated at 4050 RAWR maxtow. Even If I meet payload I still could fudge somewhat with the RAWR. Can't do that in the F150.

[SmokeyWren]

2013 F-150 with EcoBoost engine, HD Payload pkg, Max tow pkg, Lariat trim, SuperCrew, 4x4, 6.5' bed
Tire size LT245/75R17E on 17" 7-lug wheels
Axle ratio 3.73
GVWR 8,200 pounds.
GCWR 17,100 pounds
Tow rating of CrewCab 4x4 with 6.5' bed 11,100 (so that assumes the truck weighs 6,000 pounds)

(2013 F-150 was also available with 6.2L V8 engine, but the HD payload pkg was not available with the 6.2L engine so GVWR is way down.)

(I don't have the 2013 F-250 order guide handy, so I'll use 2012.)

2012 F-250 6.2L V8 CrewCab 4x4 with 6.5' bed and Lariat trim
Tire size LR275/65R18E on 8-lug 18" wheels
Axle ratio = 3.73
GVWR 10,000 pounds.
GCWR 19,000 pounds
Tow rating 12,100 (so that assumes the truck weighs 6,900 pounds)