Go Back   iRV2 Forums > TRAVEL TRAILER, 5th WHEEL & TRUCK CAMPER FORUMS > Trailer Towing and Tow Vehicles Discussion
Click Here to Login
Join iRV2 Today

Mission Statement: Supporting thoughtful exchange of knowledge, values and experience among RV enthusiasts.
Reply
  This discussion is proudly sponsored by:
Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about their products on iRV2
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 05-28-2014, 09:44 PM   #1
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Dripping Springs, TX
Posts: 162
SwivelWheel 58DW tow system

If you have a Swivelwheel 58DW system, rated per manufacturer at 1200lbs, or have used one. What is your experience/input about purchasing and using it to carry a 2007 Goldwing weighing 950lbs. I see the 8" tires are only rated to 65mph. I'm wondering what happens to it when the back end of a 5ver drops almost to the ground. I see it swivels side to side. I already understand, I think, it can't go to the east coast, basically east of Michigan. My hydralift just isn't going to work and we want to keep our 06 F250 & Excel 30 RSO Limited for a few years to get FT'ing down. Other ideas welcomed.
thanks
__________________

__________________
Brian & Pam Grateful for our travel adventures.
Big B is offline   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 RV Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

iRV2.com RV Community - Are you about to start a new improvement on your RV or need some help with some maintenance? Do you need advice on what products to buy? Or maybe you can give others some advice? No matter where you fit in you'll find that iRV2 is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with other RV owners, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create an RV blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Old 05-29-2014, 07:25 AM   #2
Moderator Emeritus
 
SmokeyWren's Avatar


 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Midland County, Texas
Posts: 3,326
Quote:
Originally Posted by Big B View Post
My hydralift just isn't going to work and we want to keep our 06 F250 & Excel 30 RSO Limited for a few years to get FT'ing down.
What's wrong with the Excel Hydralift? It looks like the perfect solution for hauling a Goldwing on the back of the 5er?

I hope you realize that your poor little F-250 is going to be severely overloaded with that luxury RV 5er. The 30 RSO is no longer in production, but the GVWR of the similar 31IKE is 17,500, and a full-timer will probably have it loaded to the gills when changing campgrounds. The dry hitch weight is 22.8% of dry trailer weight, and you can expect that percentage to remain relatively constant as you load the 5er for full-timing. 22.8% of 17.5k is a pin weight of 3,990 pounds. So if the GVWR of your Excel is 17.5k, then you'll be severely overloaded over the GVWR of your F-250.

Your F-250 has a GVWR of 10,000 pounds and will probably weigh at least 8,000 when wet and loaded for a full-timer move from one location to another. That leaves about 2,000 pounds for max pin weight before you are at the GVWR of your F-250. So you're going to be overloaded by around 2000 pounds over the GVWR of your tow vehicle.

I have towed a 5er that overloaded my F-250 by a few hundred pounds with no problems, but I wouldn't even leave the back yard with a tow vehicle that was overloaded by 2,000 pounds over the GVWR.

If the GVWR of your 5er is only 15.5k as indicated in another of your threads, that's still 3,500 pounds of pin weight. So instead of 2000 pounds overloaded, you'll be overloaded by 1500 pounds over the GVWR of your F-250.
__________________

__________________
Grumpy ole man with over 50 years towing experience. Now my heaviest trailer is a 7,000-pound enclosed cargo trailer, RV is a 5,600 pound Skyline Nomad Joey 196S, and my tow vehicle is a 2012 F-150 3.5L EcoBoost SuperCrew.
SmokeyWren is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2014, 09:40 AM   #3
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Dripping Springs, TX
Posts: 162
The problem with the Excel is the frame, 8", isn't strong enough and axles are only rated to 14K with it loaded to 14.3 for FT'ing with the Hydralift and rear frame reinforcement, 6" tube steel on it. My unloaded pin weight is 2420lbs. I've talked with Excel abt changing axles but they tell me it's likely to have long term negative effects on the rear slides so I'm not willing to put my $ into it. According to my Ford sticker, my GVWR is 9600lbs. I have a 4550 GAWR front axle, a 6100 GAWR rear axle. I'm going to weigh it today fully loaded. My Excel weighs loaded 14,3K. I'm not sure how you came up with you calcs. Perhaps you can enlighten/educate me. This is a steep learning curve. My F250 6.0 super cab short bed with 3.73 gears is rated to tow 15.5K according to Ford. For what's it's worth, I've added K&N cold air intake, 4" MagnaFlow muffler, and SCT programmer with 50 HP programed in. From CA to MI driving the 15, 25, 80, and 90 Hwy's it never heated up dropped below 53 mph getting 11mpg without kicking into overdrive. I'm now looking into removing the Hydralift and attaching a Cruiserlift swivel wheel, dual connectors and tires. We'd like to keep the Excel if at all possible and take my Goldwing.
__________________
Brian & Pam Grateful for our travel adventures.
Big B is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2014, 10:43 AM   #4
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 468
Howdy!

I can't help you with the Swivelwheel but we used a Idaho Tote. It is built strong enough and has 14" or 15" wheels. We carried a Yamaha Rhino side by side on it for years and the last two years we carried a Smart Car. They are more expensive than the Swivelwheels but you get what you pay for. Check the link below.

Idaho Tote

"Happy Trails"
Chiefneon
__________________
chiefneon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2014, 06:59 PM   #5
Moderator Emeritus
 
SmokeyWren's Avatar


 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Midland County, Texas
Posts: 3,326
Quote:
Originally Posted by Big B View Post
... My Excel weighs loaded 14,3K.
But you're not full-timing yet. When full-timing, you have to haul everything you own in either the trailer or the tow vehicle. So you'll probably have the trailer loaded right up against the combined GAWR of 14,000. If the GVWR is 15,500, that's a good max load for 14k axle capacity. 14k axle capacity can easily handle a gross trailer weight of more than 15.5k because the hitch weight of the wet and loaded 5er will be a lot more than the 1,500 pounds difference. And the hitch weight is on the tow vehicle axles, not the trailer axles.

(I'm assuming you have enough smarts to not exceed the trailer's combined GAWR. The CAT scale will tell you the weight on the trailer axles, so spend the money on CAT scale tickets so you'll know where you stand.)

Quote:
I'm not sure how you came up with you calcs. Perhaps you can enlighten/educate me.
Your model 30RSO is not on the Excel website, so I had to do some guessing. A current-model Excel of similar size is the model 31IKE, which has a hitch weight of 22.8% of trailer weight. So if your trailer has a GVWR of 15,500 with a hitch weight of 22.8%, and you load it to the max for a full-timer's move, your hitch weight will probably be about 22.8% of 15,500, or 3,534 pounds.

A hitch weight of 3,500 pounds subtracted from a tow vehicle GVWR of 9,600 pounds leaves 6,100 pounds for the weight of the wet and loaded F-250, including driver, passenger, 5er hitch, tools and jacks, full tank of fuel and anything else that might be in the truck when towing. But the CAT scale will show you that your truck is going to weigh a lot more than 6,100 pounds before you tie onto the 5er. Therefore you're going to be overloaded.

Quote:
My F250 6.0 super cab short bed with 3.73 gears is rated to tow 15.5K according to Ford.
The Ford tow rating tells you the combined weight your drivetrain can handle when there's absolutely nothing in the truck but a skinny driver, and the truck has no options other than the engine, tranny, and axle ratio indicated. But it ignores the hitch weight your tow vehicle can haul without exceeding the GVWR of the tow vehicle.

Your GCWR is 23,000 and your tow rating is 15,700 for a 2006 SuperCab 4x4 diesel. (Tow rating of 15,500 is for a CrewCab.) Tow rating = GCWR minus the weight of the tow vehicle. So your tow rating is 15,700 only when your wet and loaded tow vehicle weighs 7,300 pounds or less. Your tow rating decreases for every pound your tow vehicle weighs more than 7,300. But it doesn't matter, because your GCWR and tow ratings are not your limiter on an F-250.

Payload capacity for hitch weight is your limiter. Payload capacity available for hitch weight = GVWR of the truck minus the wet and loaded weight of the truck that's ready to back up to the 5er. As indicated earlier, your wet and loaded truck is probably going to be close to 8,000 pounds before you tie onto the 5er. 9,600 GVWR minus 8,000 wet and loaded truck weight leaves only 1,600 pounds of payload capacity available for hitch weight.

Quote:
For what's it's worth, I've added K&N cold air intake, 4" MagnaFlow muffler, and SCT programmer with 50 HP programed in.
Those all help with power and torque, but do nothing to increase your payload capacity. Your stock power and torque are fine for towing a GCW of up to 23,000 pounds. But your suspension and brakes will be overloaded long before you get close to a GCW of 23,000 pounds.

And the bad news that there is nothing you can do to increase payload capacity other than trading the old truck for a heavier-duty truck.

Quote:
From CA to MI driving the 15, 25, 80, and 90 Hwy's it never heated up dropped below 53 mph getting 11mpg without kicking into overdrive.
With a 14.4k trailer and an 8k truck, that's a rig grossing about 22,400, so you were a little below the 23,000 GCWR. So you should have had no problem with towing power and torque, or overheating anything in the drivetrain, or being the slowpoke over the two Continental Divide passes on I-80. That's what the GCWR tells you. But you were probably well over the GVWR of the truck.

For your next towing tip: Use the CAT scales.

1] Compare the trailer axle weight to the combined GAWR of the trailer axles

2] Add the front and rear axle weights of the tow vehicle and compare to the GVWR of the tow vehicle

3] Compare the weight on the rear axle of the tow vehicle to the rGAWR of the tow vehicle

4] Compare the gross weight of the rig to the GCWR of the tow vehicle.

What to do?

I would never suggest that you trade that beautiful luxurious Excel for a lesser trailer. But if you were my kid I would strongly advise you to trade for more truck before you tow that trailer again.
__________________
SmokeyWren is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2014, 08:54 PM   #6
Senior Member
 
wingnut60's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Wherever the Suites is
Posts: 2,982
Big B,
Tons of excellent advice from Smokey. As to your 250, sincerely advise you to weigh everything when hitched and compare your rear axle weight to the rear tire capacity.
That is where I really think you should be concerned.
Joe
__________________
'15 38RSSA Mobile Suites
'05 36TK3 Mobile Suites--retired but not forgotten
'17 F450--trying one more Ford
'09 F450--died, replaced with '10--retired
wingnut60 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2014, 10:02 PM   #7
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Dripping Springs, TX
Posts: 162
Thanks. I never heard of this before. I just looked at their site. It looks significantly more sturdy than the swivel wheel. Have you towed throughout the east coast, Oregon and Washington? Have you been stopped and challenged about it being a trailer? If so what was the outcome. Anything else you can tell me is greatly appreciated.
__________________
Brian & Pam Grateful for our travel adventures.
Big B is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2014, 10:30 PM   #8
Senior Member
 
Highway 4x4's Avatar
 
Outdoors RV Owners Club
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: La Verne, Calif
Posts: 2,171
Big B, you have a Boykin? Nice, don't see many of those.
__________________
2014 Wind River 250RDSW
2014 Ram 2500 Diesel Laramie 4x4, Snugtop shell,
One big spoiled Bernese Mtn Dog
Highway 4x4 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2014, 10:35 PM   #9
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 468
Quote:
Originally Posted by Big B View Post
Thanks. I never heard of this before. I just looked at their site. It looks significantly more sturdy than the swivel wheel. Have you towed throughout the east coast, Oregon and Washington? Have you been stopped and challenged about it being a trailer? If so what was the outcome. Anything else you can tell me is greatly appreciated.
Howdy!

If your asking about the Idaho Tote the answer to all the questions are no we never been challenged, stopped even looked at. Its an extention of our 5er not a trailer we even moved the license plate on the 5er to the rear of the tote. We've towed all of the west coast California, Oregon Washington all the way up to Alaska. We also been on the east side Florida up to Maine and last year we went into the Canidian Maritimes (New Brunswick, Nova Scotia and Newfoundland) we're fulltimers so not to many of the lower 48 we have not been and as stated even Alaska.

"Happy Trails"
Chiefneon
__________________
chiefneon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-30-2014, 06:00 AM   #10
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Dripping Springs, TX
Posts: 162
Thanks chief
__________________
Brian & Pam Grateful for our travel adventures.
Big B is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2014, 08:37 PM   #11
Senior Member
 
wingedone's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 187
I have and use a Swivelwheel 58DW.

Last summer we went from MI to Montana and back hauling our 1993 GL1500SE Goldwing. I had purchased the Swivelwheel off craigslist. The previous owner had replaced the tires to sell it. But he put on B rated tires. I replaced with D rated (highest I could find, 1000lb each). I also had the bearings repacked. I also added 2 sensors for my TireMinder (TPMS) system.

I had a custom hitch made up at Bannasch Welding in Lansing, and they put in several cross members and went about 6 ft up the 12 inch I-beam on my 2011 Brookstone.

As mentioned, we went about 4800 miles. No issues mechanically. Had a few times where the two trailers angled toward "V" each other coming out of a gas station. No problems, it is designed to flex that way. Backed into one site and the site when sharply up at the back. Bike sat there at a good 25 degree angle with no issues (3 straps on each side help allay my fears).

Easy backing. Got me out of a couple of mistaken routes with an easy backup and turn.

I only drive 63 mph anyway. Not an issue for me.

You must account for the additional swing of the rear end. Just think of it as you added 6 foot to the back of your trailer.

Finally, we added a camera and monitor to keep an eye on things (wife's job, too distracting for me).

I would have liked an Idaho totes too, but at 4 times the price, I couldn't afford it. You may be different.



__________________
2013 F350 6.7 DRW SC Lariat
2011 Brookstone 354TS
Swivelwheel 58DW w/1993 GL1500SE
wingedone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-10-2014, 08:37 PM   #12
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Dripping Springs, TX
Posts: 162
Thanks for your your reply Wingedone. After a lot of thought I've decided to work with Eibling & Son in Kentwood to change out my Hydralift for a Cruiserlift Swivelwheel DW58. They will sell my Hydralift also.
__________________
Brian & Pam Grateful for our travel adventures.
Big B is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2014, 03:55 PM   #13
Senior Member
 
wingedone's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 187
Quote:
Originally Posted by Big B View Post
Thanks for your your reply Wingedone. After a lot of thought I've decided to work with Eibling & Son in Kentwood to change out my Hydralift for a Cruiserlift Swivelwheel DW58. They will sell my Hydralift also.
Cool. Good luck with it. Please post pictures when you finalize it.

One thing I haven't done and keep planning too. Replace the front droppable wheels with crank up/down trailer jacks. Friend told me about it on his (not seen it yet). Would make it much easier to hook up.
__________________

__________________
2013 F350 6.7 DRW SC Lariat
2011 Brookstone 354TS
Swivelwheel 58DW w/1993 GL1500SE
wingedone is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Slide toppers, Carefree Summit System smlranger MH-General Discussions & Problems 1 04-27-2014 02:43 PM
Tow bar installation BlueGekko Toads and Motorhome Related Towing 21 04-23-2014 10:03 AM
Flat Tow lowtiderider Toads and Motorhome Related Towing 9 03-02-2014 06:25 PM
Demco Tow Bar wil01 Toads and Motorhome Related Towing 0 11-10-2013 09:21 PM

» Virginia Campgrounds

Reviews provided by


Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 03:11 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.