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Old 03-27-2019, 12:16 PM   #1
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Thoughts on TV & TT

Getting ready to road trip again after a looong time away.
Opinions please. Am I safe? Overthinking?
Tow vehicle is a 2019 Ram 1500 with the following spec’s from vin lookup (my actual truck) and FCA.
Crew cab; Short bed; 5.7 liter, 8 speed auto; 3.92 axle ratio.
According to Trailer life I have 11,190 towing capacity. Times 80% for safety leaves 8,952 lbs for towing max.
Per FCA
Truck weight= 5323 Front GAWR =3900 Rear GAWR = 4100 Truck GVWR = 7100
Max payload = 1780 GCWR =17,000 Max Trailer weight (per FCA) 11,250 X 80% = 9,000

Thinking about this TT:

Keystone outback 299URL;

Dry wt=5998 CC=1692 gross = 7690 HW = 695

Truck would loaded with just me (175#), generator (100#) hitch (100#) which leaves me plenty for hitch weight of TT. Thoughts?
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Old 03-27-2019, 12:21 PM   #2
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Remember, terms like "dry" or "shipping" are totally meaningless. With a 7600 GVWR trailer that would be about the mqx I would look at with a 1500 series truck. I realize that mgs are boosting numbers, its a numbers game to determine who has bragging rights this year. So you should be good to go.
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Old 03-27-2019, 12:31 PM   #3
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That 695# tongue weight (hitch) is DRY weight based on the DRY trailer weight (599*#)
Roughly 12% so WET tongue weight will be closer to 900#


Pack up.....load truck and your NEW TT up 'camp ready' (everything in truck ---fuel, everything in trailer---water propane) and go camping
On way to camping take a short side trip and hit a CAT Scales and get weighed.
Truck/Trailer with WDH hooked up.....then unhook bars and reweigh....then drive off/drop trailer in parking lot and weigh just truck


Good combo.....enjoy!!
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Old 03-27-2019, 12:45 PM   #4
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I'd say that combo is about max for the Ram 1500. I would recommend a top line weight distribution hitch with built in sway control.
You'll be near 7,000+/- lbs loaded, 900+ lbs for tongue weight and at 34' long that will be a load for a Ram 1500.

If possible I'd look for a used Hensley Arrow or Pro Pride WDH. Top of the line but it will really mitigate any wiggle issues you may have.
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Old 03-27-2019, 02:08 PM   #5
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Agree with those that say the Ram will be maxxed out. A 34' trailer will not be easy to control in any kind of wind or semis passing.

I can see a 3/4 ton truck in your future and maybe even a diesel.
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Old 03-27-2019, 07:12 PM   #6
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Semi's and windy conditions will wear you out with that truck and trailer in my opinion. You'll be much happier with a 3/4 ton and a diesel. Again, just my opinion.
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Old 03-28-2019, 04:21 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adlereins View Post
Max payload = 1780 … Max Trailer weight (per FCA) 11,250 X 80% = 9,000
Payload is your limiter. If you don't exceed max payload, you need not worry about max trailer weight. GVWR minus weight of the unloaded truck = payload capacity.

Quote:
Thinking about this TT: Keystone outback 299URL;
Dry wt=5998 CC=1692 gross = 7690
When properly loaded to 7,600 pounds, with TT average of 13% TW + 100 pounds for a good WD hitch, the hitch weight will be about 1,100 pounds. That leaves 680 pounds max payload available for people, tools, jacks and jack stands, toys and stuff.

Quote:
Truck would loaded with just me (175#), generator (100#) … which leaves me plenty for hitch weight of TT. Thoughts?
680 minus 275 = 405 pounds for items such as tool box, toys, outdoor patio rug and furniture, and gas for the generator. If you also haul a sooty cast iron Dutch oven in the bed, for cooking up a mess of campfire beans or cowboy stew, then you'll probably be okay but on the borderline of being overloaded.

Be sure to weigh the wet and loaded rig (with a full tank of gas) on a CAT scale when on the road. Add weights on front and rear axles of the tow vehicle to get GVW, and compare GVW to the GVWR of your tow vehicle.
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Old 03-29-2019, 09:15 AM   #8
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Thanks everybody! SmokeyWren, I don't plan on loading to 7600 max. Probably more like 6200 - 6500. I travel light weight; 1/4 tank of fresh, waste tanks empty, Levi's and a t-shirt <Grin>, paper plates - - -you get the idea. As far as loading the truck, maybe another 100 pounds, so I still have wiggle room. All that being said, I am lucky enough to have several dealers within 20 miles of me (Loveland,CO) so I can look at the "Yellow" stickers that show "actual", as equipped, with full water, weights. As we know, there is quite a difference between brochure and actual. Even though I might not exceed my limits, I am thinking about dropping down to the Outback 260UML. Dealer doesn't have one yet but should have some this week so I can look at actual weight. I'll keep everybody updated. One more thing. I'll post in the trailer forum but any opinions on wood or aluminum frame? Thanks again.
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Old 03-29-2019, 08:31 PM   #9
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Travel trailers are NEVER as light as one thinks they are. Plus we campers end up putting FAR MORE stuff into them than we ever thought we would. In this researching phase, it is best that you use Gross weight; not “dry” weight plus what you think cargo weight will optimistically be. Finally, leave yourself plenty of margin. You don’t want to be towing up and down mountains during a storm or heavy traffic and be “at the limits”. Slow down and enjoy the scenery. Enjoy the drive and arrive happy and safe.
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Old 04-08-2019, 11:44 AM   #10
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Update: Dropped down to an Outback 260 UML. Yellow sticker is 5860 dry with 1680 CCC. That includes full propane, empty tanks. 7600 GVWR. With 1/2 tank of water (250#) 500# of misc stuff. 5860 + 750= 6610. Times 12.5% for hitch gives me ~ 850 for TW. Payload is 1780. So lets say 900 TW, 100# WD hitch, me and 300# stuff comes to 1200 which gives me 580 wiggle room. Anybody see any problems? Thanks for the feedback!
Whoops forgot batts. Two at 65 each for 130 pounds. Still OK.
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Old 04-08-2019, 05:53 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adlereins View Post
Update: Dropped down to an Outback 260 UML. Yellow sticker is 5860 dry with 1680 CCC. That includes full propane, empty tanks. 7600 GVWR. With 1/2 tank of water (250#) 500# of misc stuff. 5860 + 750= 6610. Times 12.5% for hitch gives me ~ 850 for TW. Payload is 1780. So lets say 900 TW, 100# WD hitch, me and 300# stuff comes to 1200 which gives me 580 wiggle room. Anybody see any problems? Thanks for the feedback!
Whoops forgot batts. Two at 65 each for 130 pounds. Still OK.
Depends on your truck configuration. Axle placement on long beds are generally more tolerant to higher loads. Shirt beds have axles pushed forward and that makes each additional lb at the hitch more than 1lb at the axle.

There is a thread below where the guy is blown away at his rear axle weight hitched.

My opinion? Ram 1500 in crew cab short bed is not made for hauling much. You will be at or over limits when loaded. Only way to know for sure is hitch it, fill all the tanks and get on scales including only weighing truck's rear axles loaded up. Rear suspension on them is pretty mushy.
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Old 04-09-2019, 03:59 AM   #12
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The 2019 Ram 1500 is the most capable Ram ever. 1,780 cargo capacity is good for a 1500 truck. You have the 3.92 gears and 8 speed tranny. Get a good WD hitch and I think you will be ok. You will know you are towing and will probably be towing below the posted speed limit on the highway.

My cut off for the last generation of 150/1500 trucks was 6,500lbs. The new generation of 150/1500 trucks with a longer wheelbase are probably good for 7,500lbs if the trailer in not too long.

Get a good WD hitch and enjoy.
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Old 04-09-2019, 06:39 AM   #13
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Depends on your truck configuration. Axle placement on long beds are generally more tolerant to higher loads. Shirt beds have axles pushed forward and that makes each additional lb at the hitch more than 1lb at the axle.
Hello? I must be hard of understanding. Most pickup beds, the rear axle is near center of the bed. The hitch ball is mounted about the same distance behind the tailgate, no matter how long the bed. So the longer the bed, the more distance axle/hitch. The wheelbase should always be longer than axle/ball, so if you add the same distance to both, the axle/ball will be a smaller percentage of wheelbase. (Given same cab size, same front axle to back of cab) All TW goes on the truck at the ball, so the rule of teeter-totter means that the amount of weight pulled of front axle will be less with the short overhang (axle/ball).
From what I see the WDH would need to be tighter to transfer weight back to steer of the long bed truck.
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Old 04-09-2019, 08:26 AM   #14
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adlereins You could never tell or feel the difference in the stability or stopping power of how your truck & trailer tows or handles whether you were say 3% over or 3% under your 7,100 pound GVWR. Its WAY over prioritized on this and other TT forums. Not that you don't want to stay inside that you do but steer axle weight and TW percentage have a much more profound and immediately noticeable affect on the safety & stability of your tow rig. As such they should be the first priority and focus.

People don't understand what affects the stability of the combination truck & TT very well so they pass on what they've heard from places like here and unfortunately that includes bad ideas home brew math etc as well as the proper math science and testing proven specs from the Mfgs actually building selling and warrantying our trucks & trailers. Safe stable towing setup is not assured in staying well below GVWR or other home brew ideas. The SAE society of automotive engineers, the auto manufacturers, and the RV manufacturers give you specific numbers or specification maximums of what you need to stay inside of in order to assure you of a safe stable tow set up. Naturally you have to roll over a CAT or triple scale that measures steer, drive, and TT axles separately at the same time in order to know or prove you are within spec. If you know you are not approaching the spec limits of your truck & trailer by the light weight of what you tow and carry then by all means a simple eye ball, level, and measurements will get you in the ball park and work fine. In fact Ram only recommends a WDH after the trailer exceeds 5,000 pounds.

Ram and everyone else that sells a vehicle to tow are required to provide max tow, max steer axle, drive axle, and receiver weight, as well as CVWR & GVWR. (Combined vehicle weight rating and gross vehicle weight rating.) These along with the the TW (tongue weight) percentage (10 to 15%) give you everything you need to assure a safe stable tow. With them there is no reason for home made funky math or other home made rules of thumb repeated on this site daily. The good news is that CAT has a free app that you can download to your smartphone that has GPS directions etc to scales that are all over at minimum the continental 48 states. There will either be one relatively close to you or on your next trip. Cost is normally only $10 & $2 per additional weigh. You can read about the three pass method.

I have 540,000 miles on my 14 Ram Ecodiesel transporting TT/THs for Airstream & Forrest River from their plants to dealerships. Mostly Ohio plant to west coast dealerships then west coast plants to eastern dealerships. Scaled and towed lots of trailers lots of miles over the passes all weather etc. Here is my suggestion for maximum safety & stability for your family. Adjust your WDH and loading to largely replace your unloaded trucks steer axle weight when loaded. Also subtract your unloaded combined steer & drive axle weight from your loaded combined steer & drive axle weight to find your tongue weight. (proper method assuming your are using a WDH) Add this tongue weight to the TT axle weight off your weight slip for your gross trailer weight. Then take your TW and divide it into your gross trailer weight for the TW percentage. I work toward (adjusting WDH & loading) 12 percent as I know it provides plenty of stability as to keeping your trailer from being pushed by semi bow wave, wind gusts and sway without putting more weight than necessary on your drive axle (max 4,100) and towards your trucks GVWR.(7,100)

With batteries propane water & supplies people average nearly 1,000 pounds over the dry weight. So with your Outback you could end up near 7k camp ready. Generally with decent loading and a well set WDH with built in sway control the 4th & 5th gen Ram 1500 will comfortably confidently and by the numbers (Mfg specs) do to an 8k wet TT. (proper motor gearing etc) Thats semi bow wave, mountains, in-climate weather etc. Conversely a poorly loaded blindly hitched no sway control/WDH can be the proverbial white knuckle ride at as light as 7k. That would be heavy TW with no weight transfer IE light steer weight skittish handling or light TW where the rear of the truck is light with little traction and the trailer is easily pushed to a wiggle & sway by a semi bow wave wind gust or speed.

So if safety & stability is your top concern scale it and adjust accordingly. At only 7k you could probably get away with just setting your WDH via measurements but for less than $20 and an hour one time to get it set up for maximum stability, you might consider scaling it instead of thinking your familys safety is somehow tied to stacking up weight estimates towards a payload sticker.
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