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Old 01-22-2016, 12:29 PM   #15
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"thats how they build them to stay in business" :-)
because the vast majority of RV'ers buy on lowest price.
my trailer has 8000# axles and a 4000# pin 17.5 commercial tires.
overkill is 'peace of mind'
I did have to buy used ,could never afford a new one.
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Old 01-22-2016, 06:02 PM   #16
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I've pulled our Montana High Country 340BH with a 2009 2500 and a 2014 3500 DRW. The DRW makes a big difference in the curves, especially when going downhill. Granted, the frames and suspensions are completely different from 2009 to 2014. Still, that wider track feels a lot more stable. I vote dually.

As for the daily driver dilemma, I drive mine every day. It's our only vehicle right now, so my wife even drives it a few times per week for groceries and such. We both park away from the crowds, but then I did that with my SRW as well.

My wife also loves the fact that it feels big and safe when driving down the road, compared to the small SUV she used to have. I'd have to agree.

Now, the 4x4 is something that nobody really needs until they need it. It's been snowing the last few days here in TN, and I can pretty much go everywhere with a little care. In fact, I can easily crawl up the steep road out of the RV park that has had three 2WD trucks in the ditches during this storm.
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Old 01-22-2016, 10:33 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbenoit28 View Post
This is a little off topic, but I noticed several of the Bunkhouse 5th wheels we liked had twin axles rated at 7K each. The trailer had a GVWR of 16K. So they don't give you any extra on this?
Trailer tires don't carry the hitch weight of the trailer.

A TT has a minimum of 10% tongue weight, so a TT with GVWR of 10,000 pounds shpuld never have more than 9,000 pounds on the tires.

Medium weight 5ers have a minimum of 15% pin weight, so a 16k 5er should never have more than 13,600 on the tires.

Quote:
Doing the math, the trailer depends on the truck carrying the extra weight.
Yep. And it's logical. Hitch weight is a fact of life. Why should Keystone or Holiday Rambler specify tires with more weight capacity than required for the max expected GAWR? They don't allow for idgets who overload their trailers. So don't overload your trailer and you shouldn't have any problem with overloaded tires.

Quote:
That seems like a bad situation if you find a few compression dips in the road that will overstress the axles for an instant.
The engineers consider such factors when they specify the max load for a tire or axle or spring pack. If they rate it at 3,000 pounds, it can handle the extra weight caused by a chug hole or bump in the road.

Quote:
I have a feeling someone is going to reply with "that's how they build them to save money" or similar.
Yep, including me. I'm a manager, not an engineer. As a manager part of my job is to have the engineers design and build the best product with the best specs that are cost effective. Cost effective means the cost must be minimized so the product will sell without sacrificing quality, durability and safety. That's like walking a tightrope - squeeze every penny of waste out of a product while maintaining the required level of quality, durability and safety.

So if a GAWR is 6,000 pounds, I want the best tire available that has a weight capacity of 3,000 pounds per tire. If the engineer specifies tires that have weight capacity more than 3,000 pounds per tire, and those tires cost more, then that engineer gets fired.
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Old 01-22-2016, 11:57 PM   #18
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Get the long bed dually F450 and you shouod have a truck that should tow most anything around the specs you noted. I may take a little time to get used to the size but you will be comfortable in no time.
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Old 01-23-2016, 12:42 PM   #19
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FACT, the F450 is SAE J2807 compliant with it's ratings the F250 and 350's are NOT. ALL RAM trucks are SAE compliant.

FACT the RAM 3500 Dually has a rear axle weight rating of 9,750# the F450 only has a rating of 9,100#.

My MobileSuites weighs 23K the combined weight is 32,500# the combined truck rating is 37,800#, my front axle is 5,460 the rating is 6,000#, the rear axle is 9,580# the rating is 9,750#. I am under on axle and combined ratings the f450 would be over on the rear axle ratings pulling my RV.

IMHO these two trucks are the ONLY choice when towing this heavy. I have factory rear air ride. With the F450 you WILL need air bags.

Pic is with 5,500# pin sitting on the truck. Truck looks the same loaded or unloaded.

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Old 01-23-2016, 02:13 PM   #20
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But it's still a Dodge... Ha, joking. All good points Cummins, but I'll never be able to afford a mobile suites. I'm also not looking at trailers that weigh that much. The F450 may not tow everything, but it would certainly tow anything I'd need or could afford.

Sweet rig you have by the way.
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Old 01-23-2016, 06:00 PM   #21
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But it's still a Dodge... Ha, joking. All good points Cummins, but I'll never be able to afford a mobile suites. I'm also not looking at trailers that weigh that much. The F450 may not tow everything, but it would certainly tow anything I'd need or could afford.

Sweet rig you have by the way.
Thank you!

The reality is there is more than enough rear axle capacity to tow my RV with a F450. No doubt would need air bags as my truck without factory rear air ride would.

No different than the 14K truck rating, it's just a number created to keep people from paying for commercial tabs and insurance. My truck weighs 15K loaded but is under both front and rear load ratings.
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Old 01-24-2016, 06:58 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by Cummins12V98 View Post
... my front axle is 5,460... the rear axle is 9,580# ...
5460 + 9580 = 15,040 GVW. Is the GVWR of the Ram more than 15,040? No it's 14,000. You're overloaded.

Quote:
no different than the 14K truck rating, it's just a number created to keep people from paying for commercial tabs and insurance. My truck weighs 15K loaded but is under both front and rear load ratings.
Rationalizaton. To dodge the fact that you're overloaded. There's more involved with computing GVWR than axle ratings. Brakes for one, frame for another. You cannot ignore the fact that you're overloaded over the GVWR and payload capacity of your tow vehicle.
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Old 01-24-2016, 11:23 AM   #23
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The FACT is with the F450 and the RAM 3500 they have a weight rating of 14K for only one reason, licensing and insurance pure and simple.

So explain why they have a 9,750 rear axle rating if you can't load it to that number? 9,750# plus my delivered front axle weight with my wife and I in the truck was 5,380#. So add those numbers together and you have 15,130#.

FACT these is no where in this country I will be given a ticket for being overloaded because I am under my front and rear axle weight ratings and also well below my tires load carrying capacity.
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Old 01-24-2016, 08:09 PM   #24
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The FACT is with the F450 and the RAM 3500 they have a weight rating of 14K for only one reason, licensing and insurance pure and simple.
That's not a FACT, that's your opinion.

Quote:
So explain why they have a 9,750 rear axle rating if you can't load it to that number?
You can load the rear axle to the rear GAWR if you don't load the front axle enough to cause you to exceed the GVWR of the tow vehicle.

Quote:
FACT these is no where in this country I will be given a ticket for being overloaded because I am under my front and rear axle weight ratings and also well below my tires load carrying capacity.
Again, that's you opinion, not a fact. Read your Ram towing guide, and do not ignore the part that says "Never exceed the GVWR of your tow vehicle".

http://www.ramtrucks.com/assets/towi...ing_charts.pdf

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ram Towing Guide
6. GAWRs, GVWRs and GCWRs should never be exceeded.
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Old 01-24-2016, 09:47 PM   #25
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Cummins says;
Quote:
FACT these is no where in this country I will be given a ticket for being overloaded because I am under my front and rear axle weight ratings and also well below my tires load carrying capacity.
smoky says;
Quote:
Again, that's you opinion, not a fact. Read your Ram towing guide, and do not ignore the part that says "Never exceed the GVWR of your tow vehicle".
Cummins is correct.
Trucks/trailers can legally/safely carry weight determined by the lessor of the vehicles axle/tire/wheels load rating (GAWRs).
.................................................. ...............................................
smoky says;
Quote:
Rationalizaton. To dodge the fact that you're overloaded. There's more involved with computing GVWR than axle ratings. Brakes for one, frame for another. You cannot ignore the fact that you're overloaded over the GVWR and payload capacity of your tow vehicle.
I see the part about brakes posted a lot which isn't correct. Brakes on a truck or trailer is a function of each axle system.

(paste and copy from a prior FMCSA homepage)
NHTSA says this about components of the GAWR:
"Gross Axle Weight Rating is the rated load-carrying capacity of an individual axle and wheel assembly. (It represents the load that may be steadily sustained by the components in the system; i.e., tires, rims, hubs, bearing, axles, brakes, suspension, sub frame, etc. with the GAWR limited by the components with the lowest working rating".

Even Ford says; (fleet ford body service spec pages)
4) Gross Axle Weight Rating is determined by the rated capacity of the minimum component of the axle system (axle, computer-selected springs, wheels, tires) of a specific vehicle. Front and rear GAWRs will, in all cases, sum to a number equal to or greater than the GVWR for the particular vehicle. (snip)

So a trucks GVWR may be the sum of the GAWRs.
Now why does the truck makers choose a lower number for a GVWR when the truck can safely/legally handle the sum of the GAWRs ??
Lots of factors "why" but its not because the trucks frame or brakes isn't up to the job.
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Old 01-25-2016, 06:08 AM   #26
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"You can load the rear axle to the rear GAWR if you don't load the front axle enough to cause you to exceed the GVWR of the tow vehicle."

I physically can not get down to 14K by having my rear axle weigh it's rated 9,750#. As I said my front axle with my wife and I with 7/8 tank of fuel weighed 5,380#. Even if you removed 380# off the front axle and added 5K to the 9,750# That still puts the truck to 14,750#. Reality is about 1/2 our weights split between the front and rear axles.

So please show me where I am wrong.
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Old 01-25-2016, 04:04 PM   #27
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We were slightly overloaded with ours, 10k. It towed fine, plenty of power, rode like a sled. Added air bags, still sled. Considered a new Dodge with air suspension but they over $60k. Bought Frieightliner for 21,500 and spent 10kish for mods. Sweet.
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Old 01-25-2016, 05:45 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by Cummins12V98 View Post
FACT, the F450 is SAE J2807 compliant with it's ratings the F250 and 350's are NOT. ALL RAM trucks are SAE compliant.

FACT the RAM 3500 Dually has a rear axle weight rating of 9,750# the F450 only has a rating of 9,100#.

My MobileSuites weighs 23K the combined weight is 32,500# the combined truck rating is 37,800#, my front axle is 5,460 the rating is 6,000#, the rear axle is 9,580# the rating is 9,750#. I am under on axle and combined ratings the f450 would be over on the rear axle ratings pulling my RV.

IMHO these two trucks are the ONLY choice when towing this heavy. I have factory rear air ride. With the F450 you WILL need air bags.

Pic is with 5,500# pin sitting on the truck. Truck looks the same loaded or unloaded.

What is the total weight your tires and rims can carry
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