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07-23-2017, 07:48 AM
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#1
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Junior Member
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 29
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Tongue weight and towing?
Can someone explain the significance of heavy or light on towing. If under the towing capacity is a little closer to tongue capacity a bad thing? Looking at a Coleman 16rbs. Tongue weight around 400. Trailer 3140# prob 4000 loaded. Capacity of the smallest tow vehicle is 5000# and 500# tongue weight. Nissan desert runner crew. Other is a Chevy 1500. Z71. Also does anyone on here own a Coleman and do you like it? I will store covered. We plan on only staying in state parks. So we plan on not using the shower or toilet unless have too. Heard so many water related horror stories. Thanks
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07-23-2017, 09:02 AM
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#2
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Senior Member
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Ontario, California
Posts: 2,429
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Everything is dependent on how much it weights and how much your tow vehicle can handle. Remember that when you load the trailer, the weight of the trailer increases as does the tongue weight. You want more weight forward that rear of the axles to prevent the trailer from swaying back and forth.
So long as the weights are compatible with the tongue and total weight capacity of the hitch and recommended weights from the tow vehicle manufacturer then you should be Okay.
__________________
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]2016 Newmar Dutch Star 4369
Newmar Owners Club
USAF 1966-1969,- Law Enforcement 1969 - 2003, Retired since March 2003
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07-23-2017, 09:19 AM
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#3
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Moderator Emeritus
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: HillBilly country, Smokey Mtns
Posts: 4,171
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hit-n-Miss
Can someone explain the significance of heavy or light on towing. If well under the towing capacity is a little closer to tongue capacity a bad thing?
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Exceeding any weight rating is a bad thing. But you will exceed some weight capacities a long time before you get close to others.
"Towing capacity" or tow rating is a sham. Ignore it and compute the real-world towing capacity.
Usually, the limiter as to max trailer weight is either the tow vehicle's (TV) payload capacity available for hitch weight, or the tongue weight (TW) capacity of the receiver hitch.
Payload capacity available for hitch weight is the weight of the wet and loaded TV including everything and everybody that will be in it when towing , subtracted from the GVWR of the TV. Divide the payload capacity available for hitch weigh by 13% (0.13) and the answer is the max weight of a travel trailer (TT) you can tow without being overloaded.
The TW weight capacity of the receiver for most smaller tow vehicles is 500 pounds without a WD hitch. That's a wet and loaded gross trailer weight of only 3,850 pounds.
So if your trailer actually grosses only 4,000 pounds when wet and loaded for camping, you'll overload the receiver hitch unless you have a WD hitch.
Quote:
Looking at a Coleman 16rbs. Tongue weight around 400. Trailer 3140# prob 4000 loaded.
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I don't see a 16RBS on the Coleman website, so it must be an older model. I assume the model number means rear bedroom with a slide. The new Coleman 1605FB (front bedroom?) has a slide with shipping weight of 3,554 plus CCC of 1276 for a GVWR of 4,840. So your estimate of actual gross weight of about 4,000 pounds is reasonable if you pack extremely light. With gross trailer weight of 4,000 pounds your tongue weight will be about 520 pounds, plus 100 pounds for a good weight-distributing hitch for a total hitch weight of about 620 pounds.
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Capacity of the smallest tow vehicle is 6000# ...
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That's the tow rating, which is overstated. Your real world tow rating is
GVWR of the TV
minus
wet and loaded weight of the TV
=
payload capacity available for hitch weight
divided by 0.13.
"Wet and loaded" TV means a full tank of gas plus all the people, pets, options and any other weight in the TV. Toolbox, campfire wood, toys, coolers, camper shell or tonneau cover, everything that weighs more than a handkerchef.
Your real world towing capacity will probably be a lot less than 6,000 pounds. And that assumes your receiver hitch TW is more than the actual hitch weight of your trailer.
The Ford tow rating of my F-150 is 8,400 pounds, but the real-world tow rating is less than 5,000 pounds. So I'll bet the real world tow rating of the Nissan or Chevy 1500 will be a less than 5,000 pounds too. The Chevy probably has enough payload capacity to tow that trailer without exceeding the GVWR of the TV. And even the little Nissan may have enough. But weigh the thing so you'll know without guessing.
__________________
Grumpy ole man with over 60 years towing experience. Now my heaviest trailer is a 7'x16' 5,000-pound flatbed utility trailer, my tow vehicle is a 2019 F-150 Lariat 3.5L EcoBoost SuperCab with Max Tow (1,904 pounds payload capacity).
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07-23-2017, 10:21 AM
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#4
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Junior Member
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SmokeyWren
Exceeding any weight rating is a bad thing. But you will exceed some weight capacities a long time before you get close to others.
"Towing capacity" or tow rating is a sham. Ignore it and compute the real-world towing capacity.
Usually, the limiter as to max trailer weight is either the tow vehicle's (TV) payload capacity available for hitch weight, or the tongue weight (TW) capacity of the receiver hitch.
Payload capacity available for hitch weight is the weight of the wet and loaded TV including everything and everybody that will be in it when towing , subtracted from the GVWR of the TV. Divide the payload capacity available for hitch weigh by 13% (0.13) and the answer is the max weight of a travel trailer (TT) you can tow without being overloaded.
The TW weight capacity of the receiver for most smaller tow vehicles is 500 pounds without a WD hitch. That's a wet and loaded gross trailer weight of only 3,850 pounds.
So if your trailer actually grosses only 4,000 pounds when wet and loaded for camping, you'll overload the receiver hitch unless you have a WD hitch.
I don't see a 16RBS on the Coleman website, so it must be an older model. I assume the model number means rear bedroom with a slide. The new Coleman 1605FB (front bedroom?) has a slide with shipping weight of 3,554 plus CCC of 1276 for a GVWR of 4,840. So your estimate of actual gross weight of about 4,000 pounds is reasonable if you pack extremely light. With gross trailer weight of 4,000 pounds your tongue weight will be about 520 pounds, plus 100 pounds for a good weight-distributing hitch for a total hitch weight of about 620 pounds.
That's the tow rating, which is overstated. Your real world tow rating is
GVWR of the TV
minus
wet and loaded weight of the TV
=
payload capacity available for hitch weight
divided by 0.13.
"Wet and loaded" TV means a full tank of gas plus all the people, pets, options and any other weight in the TV. Toolbox, campfire wood, toys, coolers, camper shell or tonneau cover, everything that weighs more than a handkerchef.
Your real world towing capacity will probably be a lot less than 6,000 pounds. And that assumes your receiver hitch TW is more than the actual hitch weight of your trailer.
The Ford tow rating of my F-150 is 8,400 pounds, but the real-world tow rating is less than 5,000 pounds. So I'll bet the real world tow rating of the Nissan or Chevy 1500 will be a less than 5,000 pounds too. The Chevy probably has enough payload capacity to tow that trailer without exceeding the GVWR of the TV. And even the little Nissan may have enough. But weigh the thing so you'll know without guessing.
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It's a rear bathroom. The unit was an 2018 but have found them dated back to 2014. Maybe under 16rb. How is a WD hitch differ from a 2" receiver hitch?
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07-23-2017, 10:46 AM
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#5
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2017
Posts: 2,807
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10% of the weight of your trailer should be on the tongue. To little and you tend to get sway, too much and you might overload your hitch/tow vehicle.
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07-23-2017, 11:12 AM
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#6
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: "Murvul", TN
Posts: 1,653
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tfryman
10% of the weight of your trailer should be on the tongue. To little and you tend to get sway, too much and you might overload your hitch/tow vehicle.
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10% is the very minimum and you should be somewhere between 10%-15%. My 34 1/2' Toy Hauler didn't tow well at 10% tongue weight, and the trailer looked like a herd of snakes going down the road (swaying back and forth). The problem I had at the time, was that in order to add more weight to the tongue to increase the tongue weight, I was then going to be overloading the payload capacity of my 3/4T truck (I had other contributing factors affecting payload), so I went to a bigger truck.....a much bigger truck. I now tow it with a 2016 F350 CC 4x4 DRW with a payload capacity of 5270 lbs......I think I'm covered now!
__________________
2016 F350 Crew Cab Dually Diesel King Ranch 4x4
2018 Grand Design Momentum 394M Toy Hauler
Excessive Payload Capacity is a Wonderful Thing!
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07-23-2017, 08:05 PM
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#7
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Moderator Emeritus
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: HillBilly country, Smokey Mtns
Posts: 4,171
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tfryman
10% of the weight of your trailer should be on the tongue. To little and you tend to get sway, too much and you might overload your hitch/tow vehicle.
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True, but misleading. Actual wet and loaded tongue weight is usually 12% to 14% of gross trailer weight, with 13% being average.
If your tow vehicle is overloaded, you need a heavier-duty tow vehicle. If your receiver hitch is overloaded, you need a higher capacity receiver hitch.
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07-24-2017, 07:07 AM
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#8
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: "Murvul", TN
Posts: 1,653
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SmokeyWren
True, but misleading. Actual wet and loaded tongue weight is usually 12% to 14% of gross trailer weight, with 13% being average.
If your tow vehicle is overloaded, you need a heavier-duty tow vehicle. If your receiver hitch is overloaded, you need a higher capacity receiver hitch.
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All true ^^^^^^^ Thus the reason that I ditched the 3/4Ton truck and moved way up to the Dually....plenty of truck(maybe a bit of overkill), but also plenty of truck if i ever decide to go with a large 5far.
__________________
2016 F350 Crew Cab Dually Diesel King Ranch 4x4
2018 Grand Design Momentum 394M Toy Hauler
Excessive Payload Capacity is a Wonderful Thing!
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07-25-2017, 07:32 PM
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#9
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 201
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I've never had a problem with sway but I had problems with wind with both campers. (28 ft and 32 ft) The best thing I did is broke down and bought an equilizer 4 pt hitch with 1200 lb bars. No more bouncing or squatting and a better solid feel.i used to drive with two hands to keep it straight now three fingers will do it.
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07-25-2017, 08:31 PM
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#10
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Junior Member
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 1
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lcboy
I've never had a problem with sway but I had problems with wind with both campers. (28 ft and 32 ft) The best thing I did is broke down and bought an equilizer 4 pt hitch with 1200 lb bars. No more bouncing or squatting and a better solid feel.i used to drive with two hands to keep it straight now three fingers will do it.
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I run a 34ft rig was thinking of doing the same thing what did you end up purchasing for equalizer hitch and bars? Thank you In advance .
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07-25-2017, 09:16 PM
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#11
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Senior Member
Forest River Owners Club
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Albuquerque, NM
Posts: 379
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hit-n-Miss
It's a rear bathroom. The unit was an 2018 but have found them dated back to 2014. Maybe under 16rb. How is a WD hitch differ from a 2" receiver hitch?
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The receiver is the part that you connect your hitch to. A WDH is a hitch system that evenly distributes the weight of the tongue evenly over the front and rear axles of your tow vehicle. Essentially this keeps the rear from sagging and offers better driving stability for your vehicle. Some WDH also come with anti-sway kits to help keep your trailer from swaying due to improper loadings, crosswinds, etc.
In reference two your two tow vehicles you want to try to keep the tow weight to less than 80% of your tow capacity and try to keep the loaded tongue weight to about half your payload in an ideal world. And even if you can meet those conditions you are going to have to have a way of monitoring your transmission fluid temperature else you might find yourself stranded on a slope with a fried transmission. On full sized trucks with tow packages these usually come standard. Most compact trucks and SUVs usually don't. My V8 4Runner comes with the tow package but not a transmission temp gauge which I find highly annoying considering it is the same engine in the 1st gen Tundra. I will rectify that problem shortly before taking my TT on its maiden voyage.
Don't forget to look into a brake controller which is a must for any trailer over 1k# to be safe. Sure, big trucks can handle most trailers but I prefer to let the trailer brakes due the stopping power for the trailer so it feels like a neutral load. Over heated brakes on slopes is not an experience I wish to deal with. And don't use your trailer brakes to stop your vehicle either for the same reason. If they over heat then it's even harder to control your vehicle. I know that seems like common sense but I have smelt the burnt brakes on a truck and trailer before on a steep down grade and knew to stay behind that guy.
__________________
2009 Ford F150 FX4 5.4L, 3.73 Axles
2018 Prime Time Tracer 215Air
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07-26-2017, 05:50 PM
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#12
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 201
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I ordered it on etrailor and it was right under $500. I looked on Equilizer website and read the reviews,watched the videos,and put in my weight to select the right hitch. No more porpusing down the road either. I opted for the 1200 lb bars for a firmer ride.
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