Tow Rating Upgrade?

[Greytraveler]

Our current truck has a tow rating of 12,500 and pin rating of, if I remember correctly, 1,600. Is there any way to upgrade the tow ratings.

All of the new fifth wheels we have looked at push the limits of our ratings and I want to stay safe.

GT

[Mr_D]

Not legally, only the original vehicle manufacturer can change the original rating on the Federal sticker. Newmar had Spartan issue us a new, modified vehicle sticker after they installed the new front axle on the '02 Dutch Star.

[Demiles]

I thought vehicle up fitters could upgrade and replace those stickers.

[JohnBoyToo]

I registered my f-350 for 1000 lbs more... I had done some upgrades and could handle the load better.

would it have made a difference legally, probably not, but the lady @ the dmv says a lot of people do it, it's so cheap...

get a larger truck or get a smaller rv :(

[Greytraveler]

When I purchased my RAM 2500 the sales person told me the only difference between it and the 3500 was an extra leaf in the rear springs, lights on the cab and 700 dollars. My next step will be to talk to the local Dodge service guys.

Maybe the DMV has some info so will check with them too. And another idea is a place that makes custom rigs. Never say never.

[Wileykid]

Unfortunately, you will find that no one will "give" you a new federal sticker. I wish I had purchased a Chevy 3500 SRW instead of the 2500 that I did. $700 - 1000 is really nothing in the long term and hassle. Plus really no difference in size/mileage. And I think most of the brands the only difference is an additional leaf spring and different frame stops, at least on the diesels. But no manufacturer is going to going to give you a new sticker even with the mods as it cuts into the next larger size truck sales.

Do the mods you want, and load it the same as the next size up, and you will be no different from that next size up. But from a legal standpoint, you will not be. Your choice.

Mark

[Greytraveler]

Mark,

No doubt you are correct. My question was more from curiosity than need.

GT

[bobbin]

Originally Posted by Greytraveler

Our current truck has a tow rating of 12,500 and pin rating of, if I remember correctly, 1,600. Is there any way to upgrade the tow ratings.

All of the new fifth wheels we have looked at push the limits of our ratings and I want to stay safe.

GT

assuming you have a 2500 class. 1/ increase payload. adding air bags can increase your effective payload. but your insurer will void if you are over the sticker weights and have a collision. and, you might encounter a grumpy cop and be ticketed. 2/ increase towing. depends on the strength of your tranny, so maybe? if the tranny can handle, the TCM might not be able to handle the shifting required? imho you'll need to trial and error this. hope you err on the side of caution. :-)

[mtofell]

Originally Posted by bobbin

but your insurer will void if you are over the sticker weights and have a collision.

Wrong, wrong and wrong. Can you cite some source for this BS you're peddling? The truth is insurance is for people doing dumb things. If not for that we wouldn't need insurance most of the time. The best you could ever come up with is some vague threat filled with words like, "may" or "could" void insurance. I doubt you'll even find that in most policies.

[xrated]

Originally Posted by mtofell

Wrong, wrong and wrong. Can you cite some source for this BS you're peddling? The truth is insurance is for people doing dumb things. If not for that we wouldn't need insurance most of the time. The best you could ever come up with is some vague threat filled with words like, "may" or "could" void insurance. I doubt you'll even find that in most policies.

Try being overloaded and have a serious accident or a fatality accident and see where that ends up. The lawyers will start circling like sharks and unfortunately, you will be the "victim". I can visualize someone being sued and losing everything they own as a partial settlement....and don't count on your insurance to bail you out if you willingly and knowingly drove the vehicle overloaded. To me, it would be no different than knowingly letting an unlicensed driver take your car/truck/whatever out for a drive and wrecking it....only with way more serious consequences!

[Oldelevatorman]

Agree with xrated, not worth it but some will do it anyway!

[mtofell]

Originally Posted by xrated

Try being overloaded and have a serious accident or a fatality accident and see where that ends up. The lawyers will start circling like sharks and unfortunately, you will be the "victim". I can visualize someone being sued and losing everything they own as a partial settlement....and don't count on your insurance to bail you out if you willingly and knowingly drove the vehicle overloaded. To me, it would be no different than knowingly letting an unlicensed driver take your car/truck/whatever out for a drive and wrecking it....only with way more serious consequences!

I get it and know what "can" happen. I'm just pointing out misinformation. The use of the word "will" infers some concrete rule or absolute. I'm looking for a source of that. Internet forums are too full of people spouting things they "think" and passing them off as absolutes.

This topic is just beat to death and no one has EVER produced a concrete piece of case law. If there were any actual instances they would be posted and cited constantly.... like the Magnuson/Moss act with respect to warranty coverage and chips. The sad reality is there are seldom consequences to people doing dumb things. I'd be the first to vote for such a law. It just annoys me when keyboard jockeys spout misinformation.

[bobbin]

Originally Posted by mtofell

I get it and know what "can" happen. I'm just pointing out misinformation. The use of the word "will" infers some concrete rule or absolute. I'm looking for a source of that. Internet forums are too full of people spouting things they "think" and passing them off as absolutes.

This topic is just beat to death and no one has EVER produced a concrete piece of case law. If there were any actual instances they would be posted and cited constantly.... like the Magnuson/Moss act with respect to warranty coverage and chips. The sad reality is there are seldom consequences to people doing dumb things. I'd be the first to vote for such a law. It just annoys me when keyboard jockeys spout misinformation.

@mtofell..... Kindly note: the discussion centers upon weights, not chips.

You raise a good point. Please instruct how to edits posts, so I can change "will" to "may".

"May" is entirely relevant, notwithstanding the text of your insurance policy. No policy is absolute, and all can be challenged for basic precepts. One precept is negligence or neglect, meaning lack of due care. Another precept is duty of care: as risks increase, so increases the driver's duty of care to avoid risks. An overloaded truck is the result of the driver neglecting the safety limit established by state law [people think the boilerplate is established by the manufacturer, but this is incorrect]. Example: a 2500 truck has a GVW limit of 10,000#. IF you exceed this limit you are not merely exceeding boilerplate, you are violating law. In the event you cause damage while operating a licensed vehicle beyond licensed limits, you can and WILL be charged for this, on the basis you are negligent and have wilfully disregarded state law.

Thus, very few policies will contain text reflecting the above points, because insurers have no need. The law itself serves to protect insurers. You can claim you had no knowledge prior, or were not wilfull, but you will always have a duty of care and ignorance of law in the USA is no excuse. Thus if proven guilty of negligence, I dare to say your insurer will seek to void your policy.

So you can try to defend yourself, with the aid of a very expensive lawyer, and see what may be the result. I think most of us would rather avoid this, and so we cordially remind other members not to exceed maximum weights.

I value open discussion. You may choose to argue and decline, and that is fine and dandy. But the use of labels, such as BS, are not warranted in any case, and particularly when you are addressing those with experience and knowledge.

So the onus is on you now to find a case to prove wilfull neglect of licensed limits is excusable in a collision.

respectfully,

[bobbin]

Originally Posted by xrated

Try being overloaded and have a serious accident or a fatality accident and see where that ends up. The lawyers will start circling like sharks and unfortunately, you will be the "victim". I can visualize someone being sued and losing everything they own as a partial settlement....and don't count on your insurance to bail you out if you willingly and knowingly drove the vehicle overloaded. To me, it would be no different than knowingly letting an unlicensed driver take your car/truck/whatever out for a drive and wrecking it....only with way more serious consequences!

@xrated.... another analogy is DUI. If you drink beyond the DUI limit and are charged, and have caused damage, I dare to say insurers will seek to void all or parts of your policy on the basis you have operated a vehicle in violation of law.