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Old 05-17-2016, 11:17 AM   #1
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Tow Vehicle Recommendations?

My wife and I are looking to buy a 5th wheel later this year. We have got it down to probably a Keystone Fuzion 420 Toy hauler. So now trying to figure out the right truck to go buy!

Looking at the specs on the trailer I see the following:
Shipping weight: 15095lbs
Carrying Capacity: 3905lbs
Fresh Water: 112 Gallons
Waste Water: 88 Gallons
Gray Water: 88 Gallons
Gas Tank (for fueling station and generator): 30 Gallons

Now in the unlikely event that I was fully loaded with all the tanks full, and if my calculations are correct, I am looking at a maximum weight for the trailer of around 21600lbs!

So looking at trucks, I was thinking along the lines of F350, Ram 3500, Chevy 3500HD etc - all dually options

I am looking at buying a relatively old truck, perhaps 10 years old and have seen some apparently good deals. The problem I am having is that all these trucks seem to be at or below the capacity I need.

Do I need to start looking at F450 or similar, or are the above duallys really more than capable of pulling this trailer?

Recommendations on a truck would be appreciated

Thanks
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Old 05-17-2016, 11:28 AM   #2
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Unfortunately, No straight answer to your question.

There are Ram lovers, Ford lovers and, GMC/Chevy lovers. So, you will recommended all three.

You will need to look and find the one that fits your weight/towing requirements and that is good for you.
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Old 05-17-2016, 11:49 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by krsmitty View Post
Unfortunately, No straight answer to your question.

There are Ram lovers, Ford lovers and, GMC/Chevy lovers. So, you will recommended all three.

You will need to look and find the one that fits your weight/towing requirements and that is good for you.
Thanks for the reply - my question is not so much whether I should choose Ford over Dodge over Chevy etc. It is more, can any of these trucks pull the proposed trailer safely and within the capacity?

A quick bit of research and I find a 2016 F350 has a GVWR of 14000 lbs and a GCWR of 32100 lbs implying a maximum trailer weight of 18100 lbs which is less than my proposed 21000 lbs

So what truck would I need to tow the proposed trailer?

Thanks again
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Old 05-17-2016, 12:40 PM   #4
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Sounds like your GVWR will be close to 19,000. If you assume a pin weight of 20%, that's 3,800#, 15% is 2,850#. You won't know for sure until you load it and weigh it. But ideally, any truck your considering must be able to carry the above weights plus additional people, fuel and gear in your truck.

You really need to down load one of the calculators available online, or create your own, plug in the numbers and see the results.

You may also need to upgrade your DL based on your states laws and the gross weight of your TV, trailer and gear.
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Old 05-17-2016, 04:27 PM   #5
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I believe you need to look at F450/550, Chevy 4500/5500 and Ram 4500/5500.

If you look at 2011 when all three were injected with steroids you might be able to look at F-350, Chevy 3500 and Ran 3500.

For example my 2012 F450 has a GVWR of 13,300 and weighs 9,000lbs. That might be enough truck.

In 2011 GM greatly improved their frame from a small flimsy 2010 and old frame to a much thicker and larger frame in 2011.

Not sure when Ram improved their frame but probably around the same time. Ford has not improved their frame until the 2017 trucks come out.

Not 100% sure but look at the cab chassis from 2011. I believe most cab chassis were built tougher than the non cab chassis trucks.

Or possibly look at the midium duty 10 year old trucks like the Freightliner Sport Chassis. I think they may be refered as M106 chassis.

Good luck
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Old 05-17-2016, 08:25 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by usdave1t View Post
So now trying to figure out the right truck to go buy!...

... I am looking at a maximum weight for the trailer of around 21600lbs!...

I am looking at buying a relatively old truck, perhaps 10 years old and have seen some apparently good deals. The problem I am having is that all these trucks seem to be at or below the capacity I need.
Let's assume a 2006 or 2007 model year. I won't try to spec old the GM and Ram trucks, so I'll stick to Ford because I have a lot of specs for the 2006 and 2007 Ford SuperDuty trucks.

21,600 trailer weight requires a tow vehicle (TV) with around 32,000 pounds GCWR. Not even the heaviest-duty 2006 or 2007 F-350 DRW pickup had anywhere near that much GCWR. The best was 23,500. So if 2006 or 2007 is your model year, then look at chassis cab trucks and not pickups.

The first F-450 pickup was the 2008 model year, and it was almost 2009 model year before Ford came out with an F-450 pickup with 33,000 GCWR. And the max GCWR on a 2006 or 2007 F-450 chassis cab truck was 30,000 pounds; not enough GCWR for your needs. So your minimum truck in a 2006 or 2007 model year is the F-550. But not just any F-550. Most ordinary 2006 and 2007 F-550s had GCWR pf 26,000 pounds. To get more than that you had to order a very special truck with the high capacity trailer tow package, which required automatic transmission, diesel engine, and 4.88 limited slip rear axle. Those were somewhat rare, so they may be hard to find as a used truck, but if you can find one, the GCWR is 33,000 pounds = just what the doctor ordered for usdave1t.

Quote:
Do I need to start looking at F450 or similar, or are the above duallys really more than capable of pulling this trailer?
For a Ford, you need to look for an F-550 with the high capacity towing package - option code 535. Nothing less will do. They were produced with all three cabs (regular cab, SuperCab and CrewCab), and with trim levels from bare bones XL through XLT and leather-wrapped Lariat. Required diesel engine, automatic transmission, and 4.88 limited-slip rear axle. Good luck finding one with the high capacity towing package.

If you find one that the owner cannot prove to you that is has the high capacity towing package, take the VIN of that truck to any Ford dealer and ask them to verify that VIN includes the optional high capacity towing package (order code 535).

Chassis Cab trucks are assembled without a bed. Upfitters added a bed of the buyer's choice. So you might find F-550s with dump beds, flat beds, stake bodies, service bodies and maybe even what you want - a hauler bed or a Knapheid Westerner Storage body. But if you cannot find one that already has your choice of bed, don't despair. Remove the old bed and replace it with your choice of bed or body.
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Old 05-18-2016, 12:12 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by SmokeyWren View Post
Let's assume a 2006 or 2007 model year. I won't try to spec old the GM and Ram trucks, so I'll stick to Ford because I have a lot of specs for the 2006 and 2007 Ford SuperDuty trucks.

21,600 trailer weight requires a tow vehicle (TV) with around 32,000 pounds GCWR. Not even the heaviest-duty 2006 or 2007 F-350 DRW pickup had anywhere near that much GCWR. The best was 23,500. So if 2006 or 2007 is your model year, then look at chassis cab trucks and not pickups.

The first F-450 pickup was the 2008 model year, and it was almost 2009 model year before Ford came out with an F-450 pickup with 33,000 GCWR. And the max GCWR on a 2006 or 2007 F-450 chassis cab truck was 30,000 pounds; not enough GCWR for your needs. So your minimum truck in a 2006 or 2007 model year is the F-550. But not just any F-550. Most ordinary 2006 and 2007 F-550s had GCWR pf 26,000 pounds. To get more than that you had to order a very special truck with the high capacity trailer tow package, which required automatic transmission, diesel engine, and 4.88 limited slip rear axle. Those were somewhat rare, so they may be hard to find as a used truck, but if you can find one, the GCWR is 33,000 pounds = just what the doctor ordered for usdave1t.



For a Ford, you need to look for an F-550 with the high capacity towing package - option code 535. Nothing less will do. They were produced with all three cabs (regular cab, SuperCab and CrewCab), and with trim levels from bare bones XL through XLT and leather-wrapped Lariat. Required diesel engine, automatic transmission, and 4.88 limited-slip rear axle. Good luck finding one with the high capacity towing package.

If you find one that the owner cannot prove to you that is has the high capacity towing package, take the VIN of that truck to any Ford dealer and ask them to verify that VIN includes the optional high capacity towing package (order code 535).

Chassis Cab trucks are assembled without a bed. Upfitters added a bed of the buyer's choice. So you might find F-550s with dump beds, flat beds, stake bodies, service bodies and maybe even what you want - a hauler bed or a Knapheid Westerner Storage body. But if you cannot find one that already has your choice of bed, don't despair. Remove the old bed and replace it with your choice of bed or body.


At this point having to go to an F550 in a bit older truck doesn't it make sense to just buy a newer model Ram/Ford 3500/350 DRW that can handle the weight. I for one would rather spend $55-$60k on a couple year old Ram 3500 drw with Cummins and Aisin that can handle the weight over an 8-10 year old F550 XL/XLT model that still costs $30K+. Or I'd step down in trailer size a bit. Just my opinion.
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Old 05-18-2016, 12:43 AM   #8
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1st off......
Shipping weight: 15095lbs PLUS Carrying Capacity: 3905lbs EQUALS the trailers GVWR (19,000#)

All of the other items/weights you listed would be subtract from 'Carrying Capacity'. They do NOT add to trailers GVWR.
GVWR is the MAX trailer can weigh FULL w/o being 'over loaded'

2nd.........
10 yr old 350/3500 dually truck (actually 2009 and previous years) would be 'maxing it out'

Now a newer model 350/3550 dually would be capable of that size trailer (pin weight/trailer GVWR etc)-----2013 and newer
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Old 05-18-2016, 10:32 PM   #9
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The trucks are rated to protect the drive train for the manufacturer. Been towing over 15000 lbs with my 2005 Ford for 9 years and never once saw any drastic loads on the powertrain. Most hiway towing is done at 50% load and the hills at 80% keeping the same speeds.
I doubt that a bit more load would bring the truck to destruction if allowed to slow down while climbing. Most experienced driver will observe the temperatures and protect their truck with full load.
My 98 GM 6.5L Diesel engine was rated at 8600 lbs trailer and I towed a 12800 lbs trailer and a 2000 lbs car towed behind for 9 years. The hiway load was 85 % to 100% all day long and the temperatures never were alarming.
The driver is what makes the difference. And the manufacturers size their trucks for the crazy driver.
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Old 05-19-2016, 01:09 AM   #10
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The trucks are rated to protect the drive train for the manufacturer. Been towing over 15000 lbs with my 2005 Ford for 9 years and never once saw any drastic loads on the powertrain. Most hiway towing is done at 50% load and the hills at 80% keeping the same speeds.
I doubt that a bit more load would bring the truck to destruction if allowed to slow down while climbing. Most experienced driver will observe the temperatures and protect their truck with full load.
My 98 GM 6.5L Diesel engine was rated at 8600 lbs trailer and I towed a 12800 lbs trailer and a 2000 lbs car towed behind for 9 years. The hiway load was 85 % to 100% all day long and the temperatures never were alarming.
The driver is what makes the difference. And the manufacturers size their trucks for the crazy driver.
MFG.Ratings........
One tows within the ratings or justifies not doing so.

Have you ever scaled your 2005 F250 & 5th wheel ?

Based on my scaled weights of 2007 3500 Dodge and 14K 5th wheel:
You are OVER weight when towing
Over trucks GVWR
Over trucks RAWR
Close/Over Rear Tire MAX LOAD Rating (if OEM size tires)
Over payload capacity
Over GCVWR

Only thing you are under is FAWR

Just saying...........
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Old 05-19-2016, 04:32 AM   #11
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I am saying that with 15000 lbs tire capacity on my truck and 12000 lbs registration The truck is far from being overloaded. I can pass any Truck pulling same unit as mine that will overheat and black smoke up a hill while still gaining speed and him loosing speed.
Did it last year while loosing a new Ram behind me and him passing me on the downhill with smoke roling off the exhaust pipe..
The Ford was king that day.
Nothing beats a Hypertext programme for towing, and I can prove it after 9 years and no black smoke neither.
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Old 05-19-2016, 07:27 AM   #12
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Thanks to everyone for there replies and input!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Old-Biscuit View Post
1st off......
Shipping weight: 15095lbs PLUS Carrying Capacity: 3905lbs EQUALS the trailers GVWR (19,000#)

All of the other items/weights you listed would be subtract from 'Carrying Capacity'. They do NOT add to trailers GVWR.
GVWR is the MAX trailer can weigh FULL w/o being 'over loaded'

2nd.........
10 yr old 350/3500 dually truck (actually 2009 and previous years) would be 'maxing it out'

Now a newer model 350/3550 dually would be capable of that size trailer (pin weight/trailer GVWR etc)-----2013 and newer
Not sure what I read that gave me the impression that the contents of the tanks added to the weight over and above the carrying capacity. It is refreshing to see that I was wrong and my GVWR on the trailer is actually 19,000lbs. Now all I have to do is convince the DW to bring less 'stuff'

Thanks again
Dave
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Old 05-19-2016, 08:31 AM   #13
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Now all I have to do is convince the DW to bring less 'stuff'
That is a losing battle!
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Old 05-19-2016, 11:12 AM   #14
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Now all I have to do is convince the DW to bring less 'stuff'

Thanks again
Dave
Quote:
Originally Posted by krsmitty View Post
That is a losing battle!


1 bag IN=======2 bags OUT!

LESS is More
Worked for 7 yrs of FT travel
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