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Old 09-06-2011, 06:25 AM   #1
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Tow vehicle upgrade

In Need of some help.
Recently went to a 5th wheel Gulf Stream Endura Max 40ft. Dry weight 14,300 and max weight 18,000lbs on trailer.
I am aware that my tow vehicle is overloaded, 2003 F350 DRW.
My question is do I upgrade to 2011/12 F350 which has a GCVW of 30,000 of go larger maybe F650. Why im asking is, I have herd you need weight to stop weight.
The F350's are all within the same weight range which does not seem as if stopping ability will be all that great.
F450 and F550 the same.
Any info would be greatly appreciated!!!!!!!!!!!
In need of some help??????
BTW Been to 2 dealers they couldn't provide any help. I do believe I knew more than them and there main concern is SALES and not much else.
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Old 09-06-2011, 03:29 PM   #2
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2011 Heavy-Duty Hurt Locker: Truck and Trailer Specs - PickupTrucks.com Special Reports

Read the above link (came from another thread in this section) for comprehensive report of 2011-12 model testing. A DRW 350 should be ok if your pin weight isn't too much.

If you want a REAL 450, look for a good 2010 model.

Joe
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Old 09-07-2011, 05:53 AM   #3
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Thanks Joe thats some great info. I didn't like the brake performance on the F350 for the hill decent. I haven't done any hills yet but I plan to in the future. I will hit the dealer up today and see if I can add the MASSIVE brakes from the F450 to the F350 or may consider a F650.

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Old 09-07-2011, 08:04 AM   #4
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Average dealer won't have a clue on that subject, but can tell you anything can be done with enough money...
Bigger brakes require bigger wheels, that's why the 8/9/10 450s have the 19.5" wheels.
I CAN tell you I made it down McClure and Monarch passes in Colorado this year WITHOUT trailer brakes--trailer weighs 17400lbs--so the 450 brakes can do it. I don't mean to minimize the safety aspect, but also think you are worried more than need be about it. If you really want the max stopping ability, find a good semi and have it singled to use as a tow vehicle. In the long run, cheaper to begin with, you'll never wear it out, and it will tow anything you can find to pull--and, you'll never lose it in a parking lot.

All the new pickups are good vehicles.

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Old 09-08-2011, 07:56 PM   #5
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Thanks. I did speak to the dealer yesterday. I told him I wanted to do some upgrades to the F350 ie the brakes from the F450, the 19.5 wheels and a set of 4.10 gears. I told him he would have to special order from the factory. He didn't know and told me he would look into it. He told me he would look into it for me. Bottom line I told him is if I'm going to pay over 60 ggggs They will give me what I want. So now I'm playing the waiting game.
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Old 09-08-2011, 08:17 PM   #6
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To my knowledge, you cannot get the factory to do what you want. However, you could order an F450 cab/chassis and put a pickup body on it--that would get you the bigger brakes. Minor downside to this deal is lack of some nice options on the 450 C/C--no King Ranch, no navigation, no moonroof.
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Old 09-09-2011, 05:11 AM   #7
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I will also consider the F450. Not to keen on the 4.30 gears. What kind of milage you looking at towing. Also I wander if I have the dealer put the 4.10 in if it will void any warranty.
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Old 09-09-2011, 07:53 AM   #8
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I get 12.5-13.5 driving solo; 7.5-9.5 towing 17k weight. I do not think the potential for better mpg with just going from 4.3 to 4.1 (5%) is going to make a noticeable difference. In my case, keeping the rpms under 2000 is where the best mileage lies.
2011s have better mileage figures, but also use the DEF additive--but so far, no one seems to have an issue with that. They also use a 6-speed auto instead of the 5-speed I have.
It would be nice to get 20mpg (or 12, towing) but not gonna happen for me.
Changing gear ratios, especially by the dealer, shouldn't be a warranty problem, but then Ford is getting VERY picky about what comes under the warranty after the 3/36 runs out.
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Old 09-09-2011, 08:07 PM   #9
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Thanks I think i'll go with the 350 to stay out the comercial vehicle arena.
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Old 09-12-2011, 06:17 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by warrstang331 View Post
My question is do I upgrade to 2011/12 F350 which has a GCVW of 30,000 of go larger maybe F650.
30,000 GVWR minus 18,000 max trailer weight = 12,000 max weight of the tow vehicle. The wet and loaded 2012 F-350 DRW shouldn't weigh anywhere close to 12,000 pounds, so the GCWR is all you need.

2012 F-350 DRW diesel pickup has a GVWR of 13,000 pounds. Probably wet and loaded weight of 9,000 to 9,500, leaving a max kingpin weight of at least 3,500 pounds, or 19.44 percent of the trailer's max weight. Very few RV 5ers have a pin weight over 19.44 percent, so it sounds like the F-350 DRW diesel is made for your use.

Quote:
Why im asking is, I have herd you need weight to stop weight.
Old wife's tale. The tow vehicle is engineered to stop itself when loaded to the GVWR of the tow vehicle. The trailer brakes are engineered to stop the weight of the wet an loaded trailer up to the GVWR of the trailer. The braking power of both the tow vehicle brakes and the trailer brakes have a fudge factor, so if you are not overloaded, the 2012 F-350 DRW is all the truck you need to tow and stop that trailer.

Personally, I prefer a little more fudge factor than the factories build into their vehicles. So if I needed to tow an 18,000 pound 5er, I'd want an F-450, or preferably an F-450 chassis cab with a tow body. The F-450 chassis cabs have 3,000 pounds more GVWR than the pickups, 19.5" "real truck" tires, and much bigger brakes than the F-450 pickup. If you want fancy, you can get it with the Lariat trim and the optional Lariat Interior pkg, which includes:


Memory Power Heated/Cooled Driver Seat
Power Heated/Cooled Passenger Seat
Memory PowerScope™ Trailer-Tow Mirrors
Remote Start System
Memory Power Adjustable Pedals

No, you can't order King Ranch trim in a chassis cab. And they don't come with a bed from the factory. But your Ford dealer can order your new truck shipped through an upfitter than can add any sort of aftermarket bed you want - even a dually pickup bed if you have no imagination. Click on the following link which gives all sorts of sources for towing beds and bodies for Ford chassis cab pickups. I'm a fan of the Knapheid Westerner Storage Body.
Beds and Tow Bodies for Chassis Cab Trucks - Diesel Forum - TheDieselStop.com
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Old 09-13-2011, 11:53 AM   #11
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I was surprised at how little more a F450 costs than an F350, and the difference in them is dramatic. I have seen F450' s advertised on the internet for <$50k, which is the same price range as the F350. One of the primary internet places is truckpaper.com.
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