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Old 07-08-2012, 11:30 AM   #1
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Towing advice

I know there are tables to figure this out on but I must have a block in that part of my brain. With that said, in your opinion what is the biggest 5th wheel that i can safely pull that has room for a stack w/d? I have a 2011 dodge 2500hd 6.7 diesel crew cab, 6 speed auto, 371? R E. Getting ready to retire and fulltime (hopefully) and do not want to buy and find out that i do not nhave enough truck.
thanks for your thoughts
john
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Old 07-08-2012, 11:56 AM   #2
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Hey John,
I think you will find that most 5th wheels that have W/D are in the 40' range which would be too heavy for your truck. You may find a smaller one that something can be taken out to put a W/D in but it will be a big job.
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Old 07-08-2012, 01:36 PM   #3
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Biggest hold back on your truck is the single rear wheel and the trucks GVWR and rear axle weight rating.

Full time trailers and trailers with room for a stackable washer/dryer are heavy and will generally require a minimum of a 1 ton dually diesel as a minimum.

I know you do not want to hear this, but it looks like more truck is in your future. And welcome to iRV2

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Old 07-08-2012, 03:52 PM   #4
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Rule 1: NEVER exceed any of the weight limits of your tow vehicle (TV). With your SRW pickup, your limit is probably the GVWR of your truck.

I don't know beans about Dogs, so I'll use Ford as the example:

2011 F-250 diesel longbed 4x2. GVWR = 10,000 pounds. Wet and loaded TV ready for the road (including passengers, pets, tools, 5er hitch, and a full tank of diesel) will weigh around 8,000 pounds. That leaves 2,000 pounds for max hitch weight.

2,000 pounds hitch weight for a meduim-sized, medium priced, 5er translates to a trailer GVWR of about 11,100 pounds. Although not a small 5er, 11,100 pounds max trailer weight is certainly not a full-timer's RV with washer/dryer included.

So let's look at the trailer first. Full timers want a 4-season 5er with washer/dryer. One of the best in the affordable price range is the Artic Fox. The smallest with a washer/dryer is the model 29-5k, GVWR 16,900, over 33' long.
Northwood Manufacturing: Arctic Fox

That's what you want, but you need more than an SRW to tow it with. With a GVWR of 16,900, you can be sure that it will gross more than 16k when on the road full of full-timers' stuff. A 16k 5er will have a hitch weight around 3,200 pounds. So let's look at the Ford required to haul that much weight:

2012 F-350 DRW (dually) diesel has GVWR of 13,300 and will probably weigh close to 10,000 pounds when wet and loaded for the fulltimer towing world. So that's the minimum truck you need for that trailer. If you prefer more "safety margin", the F-450 pickup has more towing capability, but not more hitch weight capacity, so for your use it's no better than the F-350 DRW. But Ford makes the F-450 chassis cab with 16,000 GVWR and the high capacity towing pkg. Add a tow body to the F-450 chassis cab with optional high capacity towing pkg, and with your 16k 5er you'll be in fulltimer's heaven.

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Old 07-08-2012, 10:34 PM   #5
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Looking at Dodge Body Builders guide the '11 Dodge/Cummins 3.73 axle crew cab 68RE tranny 2wd has a 13000 lb tow rating.

As others have said the 2500 is a bit limited on payload with those 6000 lb RAWR. The trucks front axle carries little if any payload so its not a player in carrying a 5th wheel trailers pin weight.

Many crew cab Dodge/Cummins rear axle when empty may weigh 2800-2900 lbs. This leaves you with 3100-3200 lbs for a payload. Subtract 200 lbs for a hitch and another 200 for a percentage of folks in the truck and gear. Your left with approx 2600-2700 lbs for a wet pin weight or a 2200-2300 lb dry pin weight. These are approx weights.
Thats why its so important to know your trucks seperate front and rear axle weights when loaded or empty.
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Old 09-30-2012, 04:45 AM   #6
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You would also want a dually for peace of mind when towing.
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Old 09-30-2012, 06:45 AM   #7
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I have a Keystone Everest 305T and it has a hookup for a washer in the bedroom closet. My trailer is 35' long maxes out at around 14,000# with 2000 on the hitch. It's pulled just fine with my Chevy 2500 Duramax.

So, it's not a stackable washer/dryer but it's a start for you on your search. There are many trailers for your Dodge that are like mine.
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Old 09-30-2012, 03:46 PM   #8
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I have a 2005 F250 towing our 39ft Big Country 5th wheel and its a good balance the Weights are maxed out and within limits as the F250 has a GCVW of 23500 Lbs. And Basement storage and water tank can be full.

Our layout has the W/D in the hall to the bedroom about half way between the wheels and pin. Any other layout would be to heavy for my truck. It was critical for me to keep the truck and the W/D so the BC was ideal layout and we love it more and more.
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Old 09-30-2012, 07:51 PM   #9
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You've asked for advice and opinions, and that's what you are getting. However, some of the advice is not good.

You need to do the numbers, the tow rating is:


GCWR minus RV's actual weight.
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Old 09-30-2012, 09:17 PM   #10
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The GCWR is only part of the towing equation. With a 3/4 ton truck your limiting factor is the trucks GVWR and rear axle GAWR. PER THE MANUFACTURERS SMALL PRINT....you are not to exceed any of the ratings. The 2500 above towing a 39 ft. 5er is got to be over the trucks GVWR.

Too many "experts" do not understand the ratings and that the so called tow ratings are way over inflated.

Work with the trucks GVWR and GCWR with the actual weight of the truck. A 3/4 ton truck will reach its GVWR long before you reach the GCWR of the truck.

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Old 10-01-2012, 09:18 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cat320 View Post
You need to do the numbers, the tow rating is:


GCWR minus RV's actual weight.
What TXiceman said.

That's only half of a realistic tow rating. The other half is GVWR of the tow vehicle (TV) minus the TV's actual weight = max hitch weight. Convert that max hitch weight into trailer weight and that will probably result in lesser of a tow rating than using GCWR minus max trailer weight.

On my new truck, GCWR = 14,000 pounds, minus wet and loaded truck weight of 6,550 pounds = tow rating per your formula of 7,450 pounds. But my wet and loaded TT weighing only 4,870 pounds put me over the GVWR of the truck by 100 pounds. So the manufacturer's tow rating of 8,200 pounds was overstated, and your tow rating of 7,450 pounds is overstated, because neither considered the GVWR and resulting limitation of hitch weight. The truck's GVWR is 7,100 pounds, and it weighs 6,550 wet and loaded before tying on the trailer, so my max hitch weight is 550 pounds without being overloaded. But the actual tongue weight on that trailer was 650 pounds on that trip, so I was overloaded with a trailer that grossed only 4,870 pounds (4220 trailer axle weight per the CAT scale plus 650 hitch weight per the Sherline tongue weight scale).

Back up 10 years to my F-250 diesel-powered hot-rod towing machine. GCWR 20,000 pounds, GVWR 8,800 pounds. Ford's tow rating of over 13,000 pounds. Wet and loaded tow vehicle weight was 8,000 pounds. So your formula gives me 12,000 pounds tow rating. But wet and loaded trailer weight was 8,000 pounds, and my max hitch weight was 800 pounds without being overloaded. Easy math shows that when on the road with that 5er (hitch weight about 16 percent of loaded trailer weight) I was overloaded by several hundred pounds. So I'm really glad I didn't use you formula and wind up extremely overloaded with a 5er that grossed 12,000 pounds.
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Old 10-01-2012, 07:10 PM   #12
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5 years ago I had a 12500 lbs 5th wheel that I towed 9 years with a 98 GM 6.5L diesel and it was also a perfect match. The truck carried it very well and after 50K towing miles (and 200K miles) it never had any overheating and mechanical problems. The 6.5L was rated for a 8600Lbs trailer and the 8.0L was rated for 12500 lbs trailer, with same mechanical except the engine. Trailer capacity had nothing to do with safety but warranty coverage.

I had a 5600 Lbs 5th wheel towed with a 1986 1/4 ton Standard Ranger, It was rated for 3500 Lbs trailer and the automatic was rated at 6000 Lbs. With 25K towing miles (200K miles ) never had any problems. Again nothing to do with safety, it was the driver and the clutch that was the rating for.

The Brakes, powertrain, and frame of my truck are the same as any duellies made in that year and the weight is much more then the pre 2005, brakes are double the size and tires are heavier then my friends 2004 F350 duel wheels.

Once a trailer is hooked up to my truck I use the Combined weight rating and forget the truck Gross weight rating. For the same reasons I stated above, its a warranty deal that makes my truck capable to tow safely.
Ford rates my rearend at 6300 Lbs while its rated for much more by the manufacturer so that is not a problem. The brakes on the trailer are for the two 7000lbs axles on the unit and my truck has to worry about the 1500 lbs extras.

If we were to follow the formulas a 20K lbs Kenworth would only be able to tow its own weight and they tow twice that much. And a Intenational with the same engine as mine can be rated for twice the load I carry.
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Old 10-01-2012, 07:49 PM   #13
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Caissiel, we have a lot of folks out there that find various reasons to justify exceeding manufacturers ratings. It is plainly stated in the towing guides and owners manuals that none of the vehicle ratings are to be exceeded (GAWR, GVWR or GCWR).

The manufactures pay a lot of engineers good salaries to design the trucks and they publish the ratings as they are designed.

Just because you have the same "driveline" does not rate you to tow more than rated. .

Your last statement does not make sense.

Here we prefer to tell the newbies the proper calculations and encourage them to work the numbers for themselves. With this information they are able to decide if they feel comfortable towing over the manufacturers ratings. Just telling people that you do something wrong does not make it right.

The trailer in my signature has a GVWR or 16,050# and there is no way I would try to tow that any distance with a 3/4 ton truck.

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Old 10-02-2012, 07:31 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dowens1902 View Post
I know there are tables to figure this out on but I must have a block in that part of my brain. With that said, in your opinion what is the biggest 5th wheel that i can safely pull that has room for a stack w/d? I have a 2011 dodge 2500hd 6.7 diesel crew cab, 6 speed auto, 371? R E. Getting ready to retire and fulltime (hopefully) and do not want to buy and find out that i do not nhave enough truck.
thanks for your thoughts
john
I apologize for the techies that may be making your head spin with formulas and comparing their trucks to kennelworths, etc. You first need to find yout TV's capabilities. For example, my truck is a '12 chevy 3500hd drw diesel crew cab. When I jump on chevy's website the tow ratings (which are also in my owner's manual) state that I can have a combined 30,500 lbs, 22,400 max 5th wheel trailer, 5,133 lbs in the bed. 5ers are generally around 20-25% on the pin.

Your truck:
You have about 12k limit with about 2k pin limit per dodge. you actually have either the 3.73 (not 3.71) or else 4.10 gears would add 2000 tow and same pin weight.


Simple answer: Not much trailer. If you're looking to full time it there will be a lot of options that you could not live without and those add up LBS. Also driving around the 5er without duallys on a regular basis would not be advisable.
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