Towing Capacity: Am I Calculating This Correctly?

[MaiPhx]

Hi!

I have a question regarding towing capacity. I believe that I'm understanding it better, but want to make sure that I am fully comprehending everything.

My family and I would like to full-time in a small travel trailer. I was thinking something like a 2018 JAY FLIGHT SLX 7 174BH. Here are the specs of this trailer: https://www.jayco.com/products/trave...-7-west/174bh/

We finally saw this trailer in person and my children really liked it. Before I purchase anything, I want to first buy a suitable tow vehicle for buying a TT. I've attended 2 RV shows recently and visited 2 dealerships. When I mentioned that I would like to purchase the vehicle before the TT, 2 salesmen said that was a good idea while other salesmen have said the opposite (they think that it's a good idea to simply buy the RV now and then get a tow vehicle once I see how much I'll have in the TT).

Q1: Which option logically sounds/is better?

We do not have a lot to bring (just 1 adult and 2 small children which are homeschooled). I'm doing an interactive homeschool approach where instead of visiting X amount of states within a short period of time, we will live in different cities long-term and after we've learned about the history, met the people, engaged in everyday activities we will move to the next city. I figured that buying a TT instead of renting apartments everywhere and furnishing each of them would be better financially. I work remotely and we've lived in several cities already which averaged around $48k in Seattle and $23,000 in Phoenix for housing/utilities (excluding toiletries, food, & transportation) in 4 years. I would like to ensure that I am spending money wisely, helping people that need help, and overall teach my children how to use money correctly. Moving a lot has moved me in the mindset of minimalism which has been really great and now I strongly believe that full-timing in our moveable home will be a really great experience for us all.

Having a tow vehicle that is good on gas as far as everyday driving is a big factor for me since I do plan to stay at RV parks/resorts on a long-term basis so we will leave the TT and just drive like I would living in an apt.

Q2: Which body type is better? SUV (3,500 towing capacity or 5,000 towing capacity) or a truck?

I am considering the fact that the Jayco is 2,960lbs dry and the only thing I'll change out is removing the dinette for this Ikea Norden table with foldable acrylic chairs for easy storage when we do have to move. I like this table since it can be used as a table console, table for 2, or a table for 4. This along with our clothes, homeschool material, crockpot, food, small tool set, foldable storage boxes, kitchen supplies (I've found a full kitchen set by Stanley that contains both cookware and dinnerware in one pot), and sheets -- we do not have nor need a lot of things to bring with us.

Our weight combined is around 215lbs and I **may** purchase some starter bikes for the kids that will go in the trunk of the tow vehicle.

I don't know if living in a TT will be something that we will do forever, but I wanted to start with something small that I can ease into towing with. I watched this video and several people have commented about the TT being too heavy or the person was driving too fast (I don't want any of this to happen to us):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-RvzVCU1wIo

I've also watched this video to better understand what type of tow vehicle I should get which has helped, but I want to be sure I'm calculating this correctly before jumping out and ending up like one of the people above:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_v0FU05dGz8

My Calculation (after watching that explanation):

EXAMPLE TOWING VEHICLE NUMBER 1:
2006 Jeep Liberty Sport
Gross vehicle weight rating: 5,350 to 5,600 lbs
Unloaded Vehicle Weight of Jayco TT: 2,960 lbs
Cargo Carrying Capacity: 2,390 to 2,640 lbs

Where does the Towing Capacity come in at? The towing capacity for the 2006 Jeep Liberty Sport is: 3,500 lbs


EXAMPLE TOWING VEHICLE NUMBER 2:
2004 Nissan Xterra XE-V6
Gross vehicle weight rating: 5,000 lbs
Unloaded Vehicle Weight of Jayco TT: 2960 lbs
Cargo Carrying Capacity: 2,040 lbs

Where does the Towing Capacity come in at? The towing capacity for the 2004 Nissan Xterra XE-V6 is: 5,000 lbs

Cargo Carrying Capacity of Jayco per website is: 790 lbs ** calculation above is based on the video that I watched **


Considering that we don't weigh much and we won't have a lot in the trailer, will a 3,500 or 5,000 SUV work to pull the trailer? The salesman at CW said that I wouldn't need a huge truck, but many people say that some SUVs are suitable to tow smaller rigs. I really hope to get out RVing next year, but I really wanted to weigh (literally) first before plunging in. A year ago, I considered much larger trailers/motorhomes, but after reevaluating everything, I want to start off small and get the hang of everything before ever considering moving up.

Thank you all for your help!

[tuffr2]

The vehicles in your examples kinda has me concerned. No matter the tow rating a V6 SUV engine can only tow 3,500lbs imho. Both tow vehicles have a short wheelbase, not good for towing.

Now it also sounds like your towing will be very minimal. What is the longest distance you will tow? A few hundred miles?

Even though you do not want a truck maybe a V6 truck would work best. A truck will have the longer wheelbase and the suspension to tow much much better than any small SUV. A V6 truck would get ok mileage, carry a lot of stuff, carry 5 people, tow a small trailer.

Look up the specs on a Ram 1500 3.6, a Ford F-150 (I think) 3.7 and a Chevy 1500 4.3.

I think you have the general idea. You know you need to look at the Occupants and cargo capacity. Trucks will have 1500 to 1900 lbs of additional capacity.

Oh oh, maybe look at the Colorado mid sized truck, Toyota Tacoma, Nissan Frontier, Honda Ridgeline, GMC Canyon.

Forget about the vehicles in your example.

[Oderus]

Towing capacity is something you shouldn't have to worry about with such a small trailer. Because you're full timing, I'd be more concerned with max payload weight.

TT's will put 10-15% of its weight on the tow vehicle. For a small TT like yours, you're looking at 315 lbs dry and 390-400 lbs maxed out. This number must be subtracted from the vehicles max payload. Also add the weight of everyone in your family and your luggage.

For that Jeep, you're well over both payload and max tow limits.

https://www.carmax.com/research/jeep...features-specs

Towing Capacity (Max.)2000 lbs.
Payload Capacity for Trucks 1150 lbs.

Jayco is 2960 lbs empty, 3750 lbs full. Always use the higher number. You are literally double the Jeep's limit for towing and you'll only have 1150 - 400 - (2 parents and kids ~ 450 lbs) - 100 lbs for luggage = 200 lbs and you haven't even installed a hitch.

That Xterra is better with a 5000 lbs max tow limit but only has a 1003 lbs payload max which is less than that Jeep. So max tow is fine but you're over the payload limit.

You could easily get any half-ton truck and you'd be fine. They normally have higher payload limits (1500-1800 lbs) and 8-10,000 lbs max tow limit.

[shane_the_ee]

Originally Posted by MaiPhx

My Calculation (after watching that explanation):

EXAMPLE TOWING VEHICLE NUMBER 1:
2006 Jeep Liberty Sport
Gross vehicle weight rating: 5,350 to 5,600 lbs
Unloaded Vehicle Weight of Jayco TT: 2,960 lbs
Cargo Carrying Capacity: 2,390 to 2,640 lbs

Where does the Towing Capacity come in at? The towing capacity for the 2006 Jeep Liberty Sport is: 3,500 lbs


EXAMPLE TOWING VEHICLE NUMBER 2:
2004 Nissan Xterra XE-V6
Gross vehicle weight rating: 5,000 lbs
Unloaded Vehicle Weight of Jayco TT: 2960 lbs
Cargo Carrying Capacity: 2,040 lbs

Where does the Towing Capacity come in at? The towing capacity for the 2004 Nissan Xterra XE-V6 is: 5,000 lbs

Cargo Carrying Capacity of Jayco per website is: 790 lbs ** calculation above is based on the video that I watched **

Before we get to the math, have you thought about how much room you need for refrigerated and frozen foods? Because that Jayco appears to have a 3cu ft refrigerator, which is smaller than a mini-dorm fridge...

Now for the math.
You've missed that there's two gross vehicle weight ratings and two payload capacities.

The tow vehicle has a payload capacity (max gross vehicle weight rating minus scale weight). The trailer also has a cargo carrying capacity (max gross weight minus dry weight). The linkage between the two is the hitch (or "tongue") weight of the loaded trailer.

Essentially, the "hitch" weight gets counted twice. First, it's part of the weight of the trailer because if you weigh the trailer, you'd need to put the tongue jack (and all the wheels) on the scale. (Just like you if you want to weigh yourself, you need both feet on the scale*).
Second, when you're towing the trailer, the tongue isn't supported by the jack, it's supported by the tow vehicle. So the tongue weight becomes weight that the tow vehicle has to carry.

So for that Jeep liberty, you found the GVWR. But first, you need to subtract the weight of the Jeep itself, which is 3800-4000lbs. So if the GVWR is 5600lbs and the curb weight is 4000lbs, the tow vehicle itself has a payload capacity** of ~1600lbs. The dry hitch weight of that Jayco is 315lbs, which the jeep will have to carry, which means, with the Jayco connected, the Jeep would be able to 1285lbs of additional weight (gas, people, stuff), while the Jayco still has room for its 790lbs of stuff. The tricky bit, is that as you put that stuff in the Jayco, some of that weight will be carried by the tongue of the trailer, which is, in turn, carried by the Jeep.

*And of course, the weight of the trailer must be less than the trailer's maximum gross vehicle weight (dry weight plus cargo carrying capacity).
**The actual payload capacity sticker on the side of the drivers door will account for fuel and a driver

[Bagger97]

Maybe you should consider spending more on the TV and less for the trailer. Buy a used trailer for a third of the new one. The TV is more important to be reliable and those older suv's you are looking at will have to many miles on them to last long.

[Woodman018]

I had a jeep liberty that I towed behind my motorhome for a while and it was fine for that, but to use it as a tow vehicle would not be ideal because of the wheelbase being so short. When pulling a trailer long wheelbase on the tow vehicle handles the load much better than a short wheelbase. Years ago I pulled a 21 foot camper with a 1998 Ford Bronco with heavy duty suspension and it was a white knuckle experience sometimes due to the short wheelbase. I was probably closer to those videos more than once that I want to think about.
Dave

[SmokeyWren]

Originally Posted by MaiPhx

When I mentioned that I would like to purchase the vehicle before the TT, 2 salesmen said that was a good idea while other salesmen have said the opposite (they think that it's a good idea to simply buy the RV now and then get a tow vehicle once I see how much I'll have in the TT).

Q1: Which option logically sounds/is better?

Either one will work, provided you do the math properly.

I figured that buying a TT instead of renting apartments everywhere and furnishing each of them would be better financially. I work remotely and we've lived in several cities already which averaged around $48k in Seattle and $23,000 in Phoenix for housing/utilities...

Full-hookup RV spaces in decent RV parks in or near big cities now cost about $40 per night. That's almost $15,000 per year. Here in Midland, a decent RV park costs $210/week, or about 10,920 per year, including
•Water
•Electricity
•Sewer
•Internet/WIFI (Not for streaming)
•Cable TV

Q2: Which body type is better? SUV (3,500 towing capacity or 5,000 towing capacity) or a truck?

For full timers, ignore towing capacity and concentrate on payload capacity. When you move, you must haul everybody and everything with you. The bunkhouse TT you mentioned has cargo capacity of only 790 pounds, so most of the weight of hauling your stuff will fall on the tow vehicle. The small SUVs you mentioned ain't gonna do it. As a minimum, you need a half-ton pickup, and for your family that pickup must be a CrewCab or what Ford calls a SuperCrew. The tongue weight of that trailer when loaded to the gills will be close to 500 pounds, so the payload capacity of your tow vehicle must be able to haul all the people and other load in the pickup, plus the 500 pounds tongue weight of the trailer.

Where does the Towing Capacity come in at? The towing capacity for the 2006 Jeep Liberty Sport is: 3,500 lbs

Tow vehicles have several weight capacities.

Towing capacity (a.k.a. tow rating) is GCWR minus the weight of the tow vehicle. But towing capacity is severely overstated, especially for a full-timer, so ignore it. You will exceed the payload capacity of your tow vehicle before you get close to the tow rating.

Payload capacity is GVWR minus the weight of the tow vehicle. Payload capacity is the limiter of trailer weight for most tow vehicles.

Rear gross axle weight rating (rGAWR) may be the limiter for some tow vehicles.

Receiver hitch weight rating will be the limiter on most tow vehicles for towing without a weight-distributing (WD) hitch.

Considering that we don't weigh much and we won't have a lot in the trailer, will a 3,500 or 5,000 SUV work to pull the trailer?

No. Again, ignore the tow rating and concentrate on the payload capacity of the tow vehicle.

I mentioned a half-ton CrewCab pickup, but a full-size half-ton body-on-frame SUV might also do the trick (not a "Crossover " SUV built on a FWD or AWD unibody car chassis). Ford Expedition, Chevy Suburban/GMC Yukon, Toyota Sequoia.

Check the payload capacity on the yellow sticker inside the driver's doorframe. Remember that's the MAXIMUM payload capacity, so everybody and everything you haul in the vehicle on a full-timer move has to be supported, plus the almost 500 pounds tongue weight of the trailer

And speaking of that tongue weight. Any tongue weight more than 500 pounds must be towed with a WD hitch. Your trailer will be right on the borderline, so if you don't add any weight to the tongue (such as bicycles), then you may be able to "get by" without a WD hitch. But if you were my grandkid, I'd strongly recommend against towing that trailer without a WD hitch. You linked to the video of the idiot flipping his trailer because of trailer sway. So you not only want a WD hitch, you want a GOOD WD hitch with excellent trailer sway control/prevention. Those good hitches include Equal-I-Zer, Blue Ox Swaypro, Husky CenterLine HD 31390, and Reese Strait-Line.

[MaiPhx]

Thank you all for your help! My price range for both the TT and TV is around $15k each if possible. I am definitely taking in consideration of getting an older TT. I did see and hear that some RV resorts/parks don't allow RVs that are over 10 years so I'm trying to be mindful of that. Wherever we go, I do plan on staying for a least 2-3 years at a time and then relocate to the next location (this is why I was thinking that an SUV would be easier to drive on a daily basis).

Now it also sounds like your towing will be very minimal. What is the longest distance you will tow? A few hundred miles?


Yes, we'll be traveling very minimally. With just 3 of us, everyday essentials (ex. bedding, cookware/dinnerware), my laptop, 2 tablets, and some food. We won't have any TVs or gaming systems in the RV...just books honestly. I do not suspect having 600lbs of our things in the TT, but I will never know what the rating is unless I have it after everything is in it. I only have 3 locations planned (San Antonio, Savannah, and somewhere in Florida -- more likely Orlando).

I am now seeing what else I need to be mindful of when picking out a TV and if that means staying in Phoenix for another year or 2 to save more money (we've only been here for a year now) then that is not bad at all. I just want to make a wise financial decision.

I did see Shane has a 2018 Expedition Max FX4. Do you tow with that? What vehicle(s) do you all think that is best to consider?

I did see these options: Ram 1500 3.6, a Ford F-150 (I think) 3.7 and a Chevy 1500 4.3. Since I've never owned a truck, are these considered half ton trucks? Do you all recommend a diesel truck?

Lastly, do you all think that it would be a smart (or crazy) idea to purchase the TT first and have it towed to a local RV resort here and stay my year or two in the RV? I know that it gets really hot here in Phoenix so I don't know if it'll be good to remain here in this heat. Also, while I was touring several TTs, I've noticed little things like peeling of the walls/shower frames. The salesman at CW said trailers here usually do that due to the heat. I'm considering the fact that RVs are more expensive here than in Texas, Georgia, or Tennessee, but I don't know if TTs are generally coming apart like this all over or if that's just in the desert.

OTHER OPTION:

Buy a TT down near Georgia and stay on my co-worker's land while we remodel it and save for a suitable TV while I'm there.

I know that I plan to paint the walls white and the beds/cabinets black and my co-worker's husband that works in construction has offered to help me renovate. The only thing is that they live in Georgia. I'm not sure if I use the method of buying the RV first (near them) and then having in their backyard to remodel it is smart or even legal. They have a large backyard and I've seen some people online complain about RVs in their neighbors' yards, but where can I realistically renovate the RV? On the lot at the RV park?

[Normal_Dave]

If this is going to be your living space, on your budget, I recommend the best built quality you can get, Arctic Fox by Northwood.
https://powerrvz.com/inventory/trave...fe76f1253fbc2/

It's older, but hire a certified independent RV tech to inspect it on your behalf before purchase. You'll need that truck to tow it, these are heavy, but for good reason. Interior a little dated, but that can be changed with fabrics later. What you want is a heavy duty frame, strong walls and roof, and well insulated, the Arctic Fox has it in spades. With money saved, you can do upgrades/repairs, and/or find a decent used tow rig to pull it.

In their day, these were good trailers too, you'd need a heavier truck to pull it...
https://phoenix.craigslist.org/evl/r...601265322.html

Do a little research on both brands, Mobile Scout made by Sunnybrook, (bought out by Winnebago to make their Minnie, etc. travel trailers of today).

[tuffr2]

No to diesel, yes a Ram 1500 3.6 and Chevy 1500 4.3 and Ford F-150 3.7 are considered half ton trucks.

All these are smaller trucks:
Honda Ridgeline, Chevy Colorado, GMC Canyon, Toyota Tacoma, Nissan Frontier, Ford Ranger are considered mid size trucks. They all come with a V6 engine with a 4cyl engine as the base engine.

Lots of people buy a trailer, have it delivered and never own a tow vehicle. Now that it is more clear what you want to do and kinda what is in your initial post there is a good chance you do not need to tow your trailer as there are companies that will move it for you, like U-Ship.

Getting from Phoenix to Savannah is not easy towing a trailer. To do this I would recommend a Ram 3.6 to make the trip a non-event. You have to be on the interstate. That means you need a vehicle that can easily control the trailer. Even getting from Savannah to Orlando I95 is a race track full of bad drivers.

What I think you will want to analyze is how long to stay in the west then central than east. Also analyze if you want a company to move your trailer or you want to do it yourself. To ball park the cost for a company to move a trailer is approx $2.00/mile which may be negotiable. I had a small 16' roundabout type boat shipped from Phoenix Az to Columbus Ohio for $800 by Atlas Van Lines that had extra room on the big trailer. They were moving furniture from Phoenix to Columbus so I piggybacked my boat with someone else's cargo.

To me, owning both a trailer and a TV gives you the easy freedom to move. Just having that ability gives you a much better, not trapped mindset. At least that is the way I think.

Oh, just so you know there are people that think a half ton truck is small.

[rkresge]

Towing capacity and trailer's dry weight are total and complete bull. (Don't hold back, Roger - tell us how you really feel!)

You should base your decisions on the following REAL factors:

1. Trailer's GVWR (the max *loaded* weight of your trailer)
2. Payload capacity of your tow vehicle.
3. Tow vehicle's GCWR, gross *combined* weight rating

Travel trailers are designed to put about 10-15% of their weight on the trailer's tongue. So you plan for towing based on the trailer's maximum loaded weight, the GVWR, and NOT the dry weight. So a 3500 lb trailer will put up to 525 lb on the tongue. That's weight that must be carried by your tow vehicle.

Now the tow vehicle's payload capacity. This is the difference between its curb weight (no cargo, full load of fuel, one passenger) and the GVWR. That payload capacity has to be able to handle all your passengers, all your other cargo (luggage, etc.), PLUS the tongue weight of your trailer. Oh, and the hitch needs to be included. If all of that exceeds the payload capacity of your tow vehicle, you're unsafe, period.

And finally, add the GVWR numbers of both the tow vehicle and the trailer together. This must not exceed the GCWR of the tow vehicle.

Manufacturers' tow ratings do not allow for the tongue weight of travel trailers. That's why they're all but worthless.

There are other less important factors, but those are the most important.

Good luck!

Roger

[shane_the_ee]

Originally Posted by MaiPhx

I only have 3 locations planned (San Antonio, Savannah, and somewhere in Florida -- more likely Orlando).

Hmmm. Those places all have one thing in common: they're HOT! HOT! HOT! I would strongly recommend looking for a 4-season trailer simply because it'll stay cooler and the A/C might be able to keep up.

Originally Posted by MaiPhx

I did see Shane has a 2018 Expedition Max FX4. Do you tow with that? What vehicle(s) do you all think that is best to consider?

I do tow with it, but it's probably a bit over your price range. And you've only got two kids, so you'll fit in a truck which would be a lot cheaper. That said, what's the best tow vehicle for you to consider? I'm going to second Tuffr's recommendation and say "none". This has the side benefit of allowing you to spend a little more money on the trailer. Although, I would also consider taking it one step further: when you want to move, just sell the thing and buy a new one in your new town. You won't have to spend any money to get it moved and you can get a slightly older trailer because you'll be planning to sell it in 2-3 years instead of 8...

[masdixdragon]

After looking at your tow requirements at every few years, Id have to agree having a company move it for you makes alot of sense IMHO. If all you need is a small suv for daily runabout the vast majority of the time why bother with a less economical vehicle to tow so sporadically given the budget youre working to. One other issue you may want to consider is maintenance to the trailer sitting for years without moving i.e. brakes bearings tires etc., just something to consider is all

[Desert Flyer]

If you are going to tow this size trailer (on the lighter smaller side) on a regular basis, then a full size CUV such as Ford Explorer, Chevy Traverse, Dodge Durango should be enough to get the job done. Each of those have at least 5,000- lb tow capacity with enough rear axle load capacity for hitch loads. Make sure you find one with the heavy duty towing package. These should be fairly economical at 4 to 5 years old. For a little more moolah, the Ford Expedition (especially longer version) would make an excellent tow vehicle while having plenty of extra capacity for more “stuff” or to grow into a larger trailer. No need to get a full size truck if you dont like those.