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Old 11-14-2013, 10:39 AM   #29
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I too know alot about engineering. I spent most of my career designing drivetrain component's for the largest John Deere ag tractors.
In the realm of 5ers mine is not heavy. We only got this setup about 6 months ago, wanted to try it. On the way to Florida next month will be stopping in Red Bay to look at Tiffin s and go back a motor coach.
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Old 11-14-2013, 10:57 AM   #30
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I too know alot about engineering. I spent most of my career designing drivetrain component's for the largest John Deere ag tractors.
In the realm of 5ers mine is not heavy. We only got this setup about 6 months ago, wanted to try it. On the way to Florida next month will be stopping in Red Bay to look at Tiffin s and go back a motor coach.
Play nice now

Iawoody:
Is it true that there is a % that to which you under qualify your load as a designer. For example you design something and sticker it for 10 lbs when you know someone will put more on it so there is a over design factor built right in. In sizing a furnace for a house that needs x BTU's there is a designed in 10% over sizing when purchasing a unit to heat to said load. I have heard that car lifts rated for 7,000 lbs for safety are design with a fail weight of 10,000 lbs. Not to suggest that anyone would be so foolish to press such limits.
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Old 11-14-2013, 11:34 AM   #31
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Play nice now

Iawoody:
Is it true that there is a % that to which you under qualify your load as a designer. For example you design something and sticker it for 10 lbs when you know someone will put more on it so there is a over design factor built right in. In sizing a furnace for a house that needs x BTU's there is a designed in 10% over sizing when purchasing a unit to heat to said load. I have heard that car lifts rated for 7,000 lbs for safety are design with a fail weight of 10,000 lbs. Not to suggest that anyone would be so foolish to press such limits.
Absolutely. When we were designing the drawbar and hitch for the genII tractors for a 20000lb load we tested for thousands off hours at 25000. This was done at our the facilities in Iowa, Arizona, and Canada. We then test at increasing loads until we in fact could create a failure.
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Old 11-14-2013, 11:47 AM   #32
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GVWR, Gross Vehicle Weight Raiting (The most your tow vehicle can weigh, or the most your trailer can weigh, safely)

CGVWR, the most the two TOGETHER can weigh, (this is a tow vehicle rating)

Tow Rating: The heaviest trailer the Truck can tow, UNLESS towing it will put the truck over its CGVWR

HITCH rating, The most the hitch can tow, unless the trailer is heavier than the truck can tow as noted above with Tow Rating.


How much can you go over safely? Good question, I would like to THINK there is some wiggle room.

HOWEVER: if your radiator ever springs a sudden leak and starts dripping all over the remains of the vehicle now under you..... You better hope you are not over.
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Old 11-14-2013, 12:23 PM   #33
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HOWEVER: if your radiator ever springs a sudden leak and starts dripping all over the remains of the vehicle now under you..... You better hope you are not over.[/QUOTE]

If this would happen it probably wouldn't matter what you are driving.
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Old 11-14-2013, 12:27 PM   #34
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Yes, there are codes and standards that dictate the allowable stresses and load limits to apply to engineering designs of pressure vessels, pipes, beams and many other items. Committees of engineers through out a given industry work together to put together these design standards. Many government agencies adopt these standards as a minimum for safe design.

There are safety factors built in to the designs to prevent failures of equipment and injury to personnel. Just because you slightly exceed the design limits does not mean you will have an immediate failure, but it does mean that you are increasing your chance of a failure.

The overdesign is to allow for possible flaws in a material and hopefully have enough room that the equipment will not fail.

Ken
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Old 11-14-2013, 12:59 PM   #35
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Yes, there are codes and standards that dictate the allowable stresses and load limits to apply to engineering
Ken
It certainly doesn't cover the nut behind the wheel
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Old 11-14-2013, 04:39 PM   #36
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How, about some magic "towing dust".

Kind of a interesting Youtube video (parts 1 & 2) about the SAE Towing Standard (J2807) that was agreed to a few years ago by all of the truck manufacturers , but only Toyota has been compliant with since 2010. Yes, the Tundra as they stand now are only a 1/2 ton truck, but I have seen people using them to tow 5ers that I believe to be over loading them.

Magic Towing Dust
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Old 11-14-2013, 05:20 PM   #37
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Well, there's "Maximum" and there's "Reasonable and Prudent". Not always the same thing!

I can tell you that when I was pulling wide open throttle for almost 20 minutes uphill on I-215/15 Northbound out of San Bernardino in 85 degree weather, I was very glad that my MH + Toad was 31K lbs and not the GCWR of 39410!

'Nuff said.
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Old 11-14-2013, 08:51 PM   #38
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How, about some magic "towing dust".

Kind of a interesting Youtube video (parts 1 & 2) about the SAE Towing Standard (J2807) that was agreed to a few years ago by all of the truck manufacturers , but only Toyota has been compliant with since 2010. Yes, the Tundra as they stand now are only a 1/2 ton truck, but I have seen people using them to tow 5ers that I believe to be over loading them.

Magic Towing Dust
All gassers
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Old 11-14-2013, 08:57 PM   #39
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Yes, there are codes and standards that dictate the allowable stresses and load limits to apply to engineering designs of pressure vessels, pipes, beams and many other items. Committees of engineers through out a given industry work together to put together these design standards. Many government agencies adopt these standards as a minimum for safe design.

There are safety factors built in to the designs to prevent failures of equipment and injury to personnel. Just because you slightly exceed the design limits does not mean you will have an immediate failure, but it does mean that you are increasing your chance of a failure.

The overdesign is to allow for possible flaws in a material and hopefully have enough room that the equipment will not fail.

Ken
Right on! As a professional engineer, I am in total agreement and could not have said it better. Maximum weights, capacities and limits specified by engineers are there to protect you, the public. They are not there for individuals to make their own interpretations and jeopardize the safety of others in doing so.

It's pretty disturbing what you read about some people doing....
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Old 11-14-2013, 09:16 PM   #40
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It certainly doesn't cover the nut behind the wheel
Actually it does take into account the worst possibility. That's why I can program my truck with 115hp more and get away with not breaking my truck.
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Old 11-15-2013, 06:11 AM   #41
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wa8xym - you should see Korea! It's nuts over here! On our two-week trip to the states this year it was so refreshing to drive where people mostly obey the traffic laws (except speed).
I also saw a lot more 3/4 ton trucks pulling BIG fivers than DRW trucks. A lot more. Surprised the heck out of me.
Needless to say, I didn't follow them too closely.
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Old 11-15-2013, 07:30 AM   #42
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Actually it does take into account the worst possibility. That's why I can program my truck with 115hp more and get away with not breaking my truck.
The nut behind the wheel is in reference to good judgment behind the wheel.

For me we travel during the day in off peak hours not pushing the pace giving space and practicing appropriate practice for conditions. Well maintained vehicles and good judgement on the road. When people know better they do better. I have yet to travel with my new fiver on a personal trip just back and forth to the dealer. I am in the process of selecting a new tow vehicle and it will have the numbers to do the job. I have been in the spot were you have to stretch things due to budget and all the factors mentioned come into play. I get that duallys are more stable but they have draw backs as well so personal decisions will come into the decisions.


Happy and safe RVing
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