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Old 06-11-2013, 07:02 PM   #1
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Smile Toyota Tundra. Would this pull a 36' or 38' 5th wheel?

Hi. I'm thebrat. I'm going to buy a 5th wheel down the line. A big one with pop-outs. My problem right now is I don't know the size truck or engine to buy. I really want a 4x4 because I have a passion for four wheeling. I'm looking at possibly a Toyota Tundra. Would this pull a 36' or 38' 5th wheel?
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Old 06-11-2013, 08:10 PM   #2
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One word thebrat, NO!!!!!! To pull that size 5th wheel you are looking at a one ton diesel dually. Some on here will tell you that a 3/4 ton will be fine, but you will be over the manufacturers ratings for that kind of load.
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Old 06-11-2013, 08:17 PM   #3
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I have a 08 ram 2500 HD with the Cummings 6.7l turbo engine, says I can tow 16,000. But I am only currently towing a 2011 keystone outback, 38' in length with two slide outs and weighs loaded a little over 8000.
Defiantly recommend the Cummings engine as towing capacity is good, I have talked to people that have the ford and Chevy diesels and they wished they went with the Cummings.
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Old 06-11-2013, 09:19 PM   #4
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This has got to be a joke, only it is not the 1st of April.

So NOOOOOOOO!

You are into 1 ton diesel dually range as a minimum truck. Sure you see people pulling 40' toyhaulers with their cute little 3/4 ton trucks, but they are over loaded and probably do not care.

I think you will see that Toyota does not even recommend using the Tundra for 5th wheel towing.

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Old 06-11-2013, 09:19 PM   #5
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Dude - you realize a Toy Tundra is only a 1/2 ton sized truck. It could tow a tiny 27 foot 5th wheel...maybe.

Big 5th wheels are usually towed with dually trucks. Mid size 5th wheels towed with single rear wheel (SRW) diesel trucks. The smallest 5th wheels coild be towed by modern 1/2 trucks if ordered with all the heavy duty options.
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Old 06-11-2013, 09:27 PM   #6
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No. We had a Tundra and have a smaller 5er.
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Old 06-12-2013, 08:14 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by thebrat View Post
Hi. I'm thebrat. I'm going to buy a 5th wheel down the line. A big one with pop-outs. My problem right now is I don't know the size truck or engine to buy. I really want a 4x4 because I have a passion for four wheeling. I'm looking at possibly a Toyota Tundra. Would this pull a 36' or 38' 5th wheel?
Hi, TheBrat, and

By now you should know the answer. No, not a chance if you want to be safe and within the weight limits of the tow vehicle.

4x4 is no problem. You can have a 4x4 to tow a heavy trailer. But not a dinky little half-ton 4x4.

In matching 5er to tow vehicle, the first thing you must do is determine the GVWR of the trailer. Then estimate the hitch weight of that trailer, and get a tow vehicle with enough payload capacity to haul that hitch weight along with your passengers and tools and other stuff without overloading the tow vehicle.

You want "A big one with pop-outs...a 36' or 38' 5th wheel?" That is a good description of the most popular large fifth wheel RV in the country - The Keystone Montana in model # 3400RL. 4 slide-outs (pop-outs?), 38' long, and a GVWR of 15,860 pounds.
Link = Montana Specs

Large 5ers like the Montana 3400RL have hitch weight (a.k.a. pin weight) of about 20% of gross trailer weight. And your gross trailer weight will be close to the GVWR of the trailer by the middle of the third camping trip. So estimate hitch weight as 20% of the GVWR of the trailer. 20% of 15,860 = 3,172 pounds.

So you need a tow vehicle that can handle 3,172 pounds of hitch weight in addition to your passengers and tools and hitch and whatever else might be in the tow vehicle when towing. And the power train in the tow vehicle must have enough grunt to tow a 16,000 pound trailer without overheating and burning up something in the drivetrain when towing up mountain passes.

Now that you know the hitch weight, let's consider tow vehicles. Don't even think about half-ton pickups such as the Tundra. They would be probably overloaded with 1,000 pounds hitch weight. My F-150 is overloaded with hitch weight of only 650 pounds.

You want a 4x4 for four-wheeling, so that probably means only two rear tires. Even the heaviest three-quarter ton (250/2500) is too light in the britches for that job. I'll use Ford as an example, but GM and Dodge probably have similar trucks with similar weight capacities. So let's look at the heaviest-duty Ford F-350 with single rear wheels (SRW) and a diesel engine along with an 8' bed so an ordinary 5er hitch will work. Yes, you need the diesel engine to tow that much weight without burning up all the available gasoline in the state.

CrewCab body? Nope, too heavy so not enough remaining payload capacity to haul that 5er without being overloaded.

SuperCab body? Nope, the body is still too heavy. Maximum cargo weight for an F-350 SRW SuperCab with 8' bed is 3,079. Not quite enough payload capacity to tow that monster-size trailer without being overloaded.

Regular cab? Now we're talking! F-350 SRW regular cab 4x4 with 18" tires has a maximum cargo weight of 3,969 pounds and a factory tow rating of 15,900 pounds. Plenty of payload capacity but barely enough tow rating. So that means that if you want to stick with an SRW tow vehicle that would be okay for four-wheeling, you'll be maxed out if not overloaded when climbing a mountain with the 5er tied on.

You don't like that regular-cab idea? Then as others have stated, you really need a dually. With a dually, you can have any cab you want, any trim level you want to pay for, and tow that monster-size trailer with no danger of being overloaded. You can get a 4x4, but a dually is not the best vehicle available for four-wheeling. But life is one big compromise, and so is determining the specs for a tow vehicle.
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Old 06-12-2013, 08:28 AM   #8
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F-350 SRW regular cab 4x4 with 18" tires has a maximum cargo weight of 3,969 pounds and a factory tow rating of 15,900 pounds. Plenty of payload capacity but barely enough tow rating. So that means that if you want to stick with an SRW tow vehicle that would be okay for four-wheeling, you'll be maxed out if not overloaded when climbing a mountain with the 5er tied on.


Correct me if im wrong but I would not believe the hills would affect the powertrain at all. The powertrain (engine/trans) is the same with a SRW F250-DRW F350. Gear ratios change slightly but there are options. The issue I would think would be handling. The DRW seems like it would be more stable and sure footed for the heavier loads. This is assuming that he remains within GVW and GCVW for either truck.

When the 6.7 is put in a chassis cab config, then the power rating is reduced however the tow ratings are higher if I remember correctly. But in any case, he needs a big boy truck for sure.
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Old 06-12-2013, 01:58 PM   #9
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Don't listen to any of above poster's
Sure you can tow a 38 ft f/w with a tundra . I just saw the toyota commercial showing it tow the space shuttle so a f/w would be a piece of cake.
Jk you can not but the commercial leads you to believe you can. Lol
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Old 06-12-2013, 02:17 PM   #10
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The problem would be braking with Toyota not big enough brake pads going down hill, but I think it will pull it.

Thanks,

James
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Old 06-12-2013, 02:38 PM   #11
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Actually, there would be a number of problems. Strictly from a ratings perspective, with a 16,000+ lb 5th wheel, the truck would be operating over its GVWR, GCWR and probably the rear axle GAWR of its semi-floating rear axle. I also imagine that it would be exceeding the tire load ratings on the rear axle.

No, a 1/2 ton truck isn't adequate to tow a 36' to 38' 5th wheel.

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Old 06-12-2013, 02:40 PM   #12
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Correct me if im wrong but I would not believe the hills would affect the powertrain at all. The powertrain (engine/trans) is the same with a SRW F250-DRW F350. Gear ratios change slightly but there are options.
You are wrong.

You are correct in that the F-250, F-350 SRW and F-350 DRW all have identical diesel engines and transmissions. And you are correct when it comes to F-250 vs. F-350 SRW. They both have the same GCWR, and so they can pull the same weight.

Because the F-350 SRW can haul more pin weight without being overloaded, the actual real-world fifth-wheel weight the F-350 SRW can tow without being overloaded is a coupla thousand pounds more than than on the F-250. If they were both towing wagon-style trailers with no hitch weight, then they could both tow the same weight without being overloaded.

But powertrain includes the rear axle, not just the engine and tranny. Look at the GCWR to get the overall effect of the powertrain.

2013 F-250 and F-350 SRW with diesel engine both have Ford rear axles with 3.31 standard or 3.55 optional axle ratio, and 23,500 pounds GCWR. There are no available options that will give you more GCWR with an SRW tow vehicle.

But F-350 DRW with diesel engine has a Dana 80 rear axle with 3.73 axle ratio, and GCWR of 30,500 pounds.

That extra 7,000 pounds GCWR (and tow rating) is significant. Plus the Dooley has enough GVWR to handle the pin weight of the heavier 5er without being overloaded.
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Old 06-12-2013, 02:54 PM   #13
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My F-350 SRW was ordered with Dana 80 and 3.73 this was an option.

But the real question is can the Toyota tundra safely stop with that much weight.

Good luck,

James
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Old 06-12-2013, 03:02 PM   #14
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TTCamper4... it's Cummins.. not Cummings.
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