Go Back   iRV2 Forums > TRAVEL TRAILER, 5th WHEEL & TRUCK CAMPER FORUMS > Trailer Towing and Tow Vehicles Discussion
Click Here to Login
Join iRV2 Today

Mission Statement: Supporting thoughtful exchange of knowledge, values and experience among RV enthusiasts.
Reply
  This discussion is proudly sponsored by:
Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about their products on iRV2
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 09-24-2013, 11:52 PM   #1
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 3
Trailer tongue weight concerns!!!!!

Hello All! My name is Ernie, and I'm fairly new to the travel trailer world.

I have a 2013 Chevrolet 2WD 1500 extended Cab pickup with the 5.3L engine, equipped with the heavy duty cooling package, and a 3.23 rear end ratio.
The maximum tow capacity of the Chevy is around 9,700lbs.

Our first travel trailer was a 2013 Keystone Bullet Premier 19fbpr, with an approx 400lb tongue weight, and a 4200lb curb weight. We have sold that trailer, and are looking into purchasing a new 2014 Bullet Premier 26rbpr. The trailer dry weight is 5,755lbs, but the tongue weight is a jaw dropping 835 pounds!!!

I cannot find any info on the maximum tongue weight for my TV. I know the truck can tow the weight of the trailer, but am very concerned about the extremely heavy tongue weight. I'm looking into a WDH, probably the Reese dual cam setup, but I'm not sure if that will be enough to distribute the tongue weight of this trailer???

I know one of the towing Guru's on the site will be able to give me an idea if I'm looking at the wrong trailer, considering my current tow vehicle. Upgrading to a 3/4 ton truck is not an option at this point, since I just purchased my current truck 3 months ago!!

Thanks in advance for any help I can get with this issue.
__________________

__________________
Pezzman is offline   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 RV Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

iRV2.com RV Community - Are you about to start a new improvement on your RV or need some help with some maintenance? Do you need advice on what products to buy? Or maybe you can give others some advice? No matter where you fit in you'll find that iRV2 is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with other RV owners, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create an RV blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Old 09-25-2013, 12:39 AM   #2
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 2,208
1st off a WD hitch is mandatory for that truck. The receiver is only rated for 500lbs w/o WD. You need to look at the door sticker on your truck and find out what the cargo capacity is. Loaded up your TW could be near 950-1000lbs. At the least it will be 935lbs by the time you add 100lbs for the WD hitch. Add that to what else you put in the truck and see if that puts you under your CCC. The WD won't reduce the load on your receiver. Have you looked at the receiver to see if it has a sticker on it? Most do. Also you owners manual should tell you something. Normally receivers are rated as such, 9700lb/970lbs. Not always but usually the load rating is 10% of the tow rating. That's not to say that Chevy didn't put a receiver on the truck with a higher rating.
__________________

__________________
Cumminsfan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-25-2013, 02:27 PM   #3
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Langley. BC, Canada
Posts: 677
You should find out what your actual/true payload capacity is. Don't go by what the door jamb sticker says. Take your tow vehicle to a scale with just you and a full tank of full and weigh it then subtract that from the GVWR on the door jamb. Once you know your actual payload capacity, you can determine your maximum tongue weight plus passengers and cargo.

Don't get fooled by what a manufacturer lists as a dry tongue weight or UVW (total trailer dry weight). They are going to be higher when you get it from the dealer and after you have all of your cargo in it (BBQ, wheel chocks, sewer stuff, hoses, food, clothing, etc). The factory UVW does not include factory options or dealer installed items like propane tanks and batteries. It's pretty much impossible to determine the unit's actual weights before you take delivery. To be on the safe side, use the trailer's GVWR as the max. weight and take 15% of that as the max. tongue weight.

To give you an idea what can happen, we found the following with our TT after taking it to a scale. The dry tongue weight was listed as 518 lbs but came in at 960 lbs. That's just under 15% of the total actual weight. The dry weight (UVW) was listed as 5,237 lbs but weighs 6,600 lbs. That's a mere 200 lbs under the 6,800 lb GVWR. The net cargo carrying capacity is listed as 1,563 lbs and that's way, way more than the actual 200 lbs it is. Moral is, never believe the factory dry weights.

We have the Reese DC WDH and love it. It takes a bit more work to set up than others, but once it is, it's great. It has a self-centering action that the friction only types don't. I had a big problem in the beginning because I bought 800 lb rated Reese spring bars based on the factory tongue wt. of 528 lbs. I could not get the weight transfer to work right. I eventually got a set of 1200 lb bars and now it works really well. Next moral is, don't guess on the spring bar rating you need.

If you are looking at buying a Keystone Bullet, I should caution about the ultra-flimsy frame they use. Same one (Lippert) as on our current TT and another brand/model I know of. It is terrible. If you'd like some more info., send me a PM and I can explain what we found after going to a government designated inspection facility. Not good news....
__________________
Gil & Deb & Dougal the Springer Spaniel
2014 KZ Spree 262RKS & Ford F250 supercab V10 4x4 LB
Langley, B.C.
myredracer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-25-2013, 07:37 PM   #4
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 3
Quote:
Originally Posted by myredracer View Post
You should find out what your actual/true payload capacity is. Don't go by what the door jamb sticker says. Take your tow vehicle to a scale with just you and a full tank of full and weigh it then subtract that from the GVWR on the door jamb. Once you know your actual payload capacity, you can determine your maximum tongue weight plus passengers and cargo.

Don't get fooled by what a manufacturer lists as a dry tongue weight or UVW (total trailer dry weight). They are going to be higher when you get it from the dealer and after you have all of your cargo in it (BBQ, wheel chocks, sewer stuff, hoses, food, clothing, etc). The factory UVW does not include factory options or dealer installed items like propane tanks and batteries. It's pretty much impossible to determine the unit's actual weights before you take delivery. To be on the safe side, use the trailer's GVWR as the max. weight and take 15% of that as the max. tongue weight.

To give you an idea what can happen, we found the following with our TT after taking it to a scale. The dry tongue weight was listed as 518 lbs but came in at 960 lbs. That's just under 15% of the total actual weight. The dry weight (UVW) was listed as 5,237 lbs but weighs 6,600 lbs. That's a mere 200 lbs under the 6,800 lb GVWR. The net cargo carrying capacity is listed as 1,563 lbs and that's way, way more than the actual 200 lbs it is. Moral is, never believe the factory dry weights.

We have the Reese DC WDH and love it. It takes a bit more work to set up than others, but once it is, it's great. It has a self-centering action that the friction only types don't. I had a big problem in the beginning because I bought 800 lb rated Reese spring bars based on the factory tongue wt. of 528 lbs. I could not get the weight transfer to work right. I eventually got a set of 1200 lb bars and now it works really well. Next moral is, don't guess on the spring bar rating you need.

If you are looking at buying a Keystone Bullet, I should caution about the ultra-flimsy frame they use. Same one (Lippert) as on our current TT and another brand/model I know of. It is terrible. If you'd like some more info., send me a PM and I can explain what we found after going to a government designated inspection facility. Not good news....
Ok, I have tried to gather as much info as I can about the TV and the RV! Here it goes....

Tow Vehicle: 2013 Chevrolet 1500 2WD EXT Cab
Max tow capacity: 9,700 lbs
GVW: 6,800 lbs
Max tongue weight: 6,000 lbs (weight carrying hitch)
Max tongue weight: 1,100 lbs (weight distributing hitch)
Max payload : 1,755 lbs
Gross combined weight rating: 15,000 lbs

Travel trailer: 2014 Keystone Bullet Premier 26rbpr
Trailer weight: 5,755 lbs
Tongue weight: 835 lbs
Hitch approx weight: 80-100 lbs

Miscellaneous other weights:
My fat butt! 250 lbs/ Wife 140 lbs
Total weight carried in bed of the truck 150 lbs
Total weight of misc supplies in the trailer 150 lbs
Full tank of fuel: 162.5 lbs 26 gallons @ 6.25 lbs per gallon

Next question: Is there a formula to figure all of this BLEEP out?
I consider myself to be semi intelligent, but when it comes to GVW, GCW, Payload, occupants, etc, etc, it all gets a little confusing!!
I've racked my brain trying to calculate all of this, and it comes out goofy every time!!

Hoping the Professor of trailering comes to the rescue! LOL
Please let me know if I have left something out!

Thanks again for all of the responses!! Ernie
__________________
Pezzman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-25-2013, 09:09 PM   #5
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 4,232
That trailer is NOT 5755lbs. Empty maybe. It's GVWR (max rating) is 7500lbs.
Once you find out empty truck weight (full fuel with you and all passengers) then you'll get a better idea of how heavy a trailer you can get.
__________________
jesilvas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-25-2013, 09:17 PM   #6
Senior Member
 
Bill Davey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Oswego, NY
Posts: 120
Ernie, I'll try to help a little with all the numbers. It's easier to consider the truck and trailer separately for now. You have a lot of information, but you need one more number. You need the actual (from a scale) weight of your truck with you, the wife, fuel, tools, dog and everything else you plan to carry when you tow the trailer. Assume that number is 5,000 lbs. The 6,800 lb GVW it the Gross Vehicle Weight rating, the maximum the truck and it's payload can weigh.

So GVW = Truck (actual) + payload (max).
Or Payload = GVW - Truck (actual). So for this example, the available payload is 1,800 lbs.

I think your max tongue wt (carrying) should be 600 lbs (not 6,000), and your max tongue weight (distributed) is the 1,100 lbs. Distributed just means use a weight distributing hitch. If my assumption about your truck actual weight is close, you have margin between the 1,100 lbs distributed load and the 1,800 lb payload, but this is the first number to verify.

Most TT have about 10-15% of their weight on the tongue. Tongue wt = 0.15 X trailer wt. Your truck is limited to 1,100 lbs tongue weight. So trailer wt (max) = 1,100 (max tongue wt for your truck) / 0.15 = 7,333 lbs. NOTE this is the maximum LOADED trailer weight, so don't use DRY (empty) weight. Also note that this number is way below the 9,700 lb max towing capacity.
__________________
Central New York; 2016 Rockwood 2604WS travel trailer
2014 Ram 1500 Laramie Eco Diesel; 2002 Harley Heritage Classic
Bill Davey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-25-2013, 09:58 PM   #7
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 3
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Davey View Post
Ernie, I'll try to help a little with all the numbers. It's easier to consider the truck and trailer separately for now. You have a lot of information, but you need one more number. You need the actual (from a scale) weight of your truck with you, the wife, fuel, tools, dog and everything else you plan to carry when you tow the trailer. Assume that number is 5,000 lbs. The 6,800 lb GVW it the Gross Vehicle Weight rating, the maximum the truck and it's payload can weigh.

So GVW = Truck (actual) + payload (max).
Or Payload = GVW - Truck (actual). So for this example, the available payload is 1,800 lbs.

I think your max tongue wt (carrying) should be 600 lbs (not 6,000), and your max tongue weight (distributed) is the 1,100 lbs. Distributed just means use a weight distributing hitch. If my assumption about your truck actual weight is close, you have margin between the 1,100 lbs distributed load and the 1,800 lb payload, but this is the first number to verify.

Most TT have about 10-15% of their weight on the tongue. Tongue wt = 0.15 X trailer wt. Your truck is limited to 1,100 lbs tongue weight. So trailer wt (max) = 1,100 (max tongue wt for your truck) / 0.15 = 7,333 lbs. NOTE this is the maximum LOADED trailer weight, so don't use DRY (empty) weight. Also note that this number is way below the 9,700 lb max towing capacity.
Thanks for the correction on the tongue weight Bill! I noticed the error too, but couldn't find a way to edit!

I definitely can weigh the truck loaded at the scale...

I get the gist of being below the total maximum towing weight for the truck, I just don't know if the tongue weight is going to exceed what the truck can do safely.

I will get the truck to the scales as soon as I can and report back with my total loaded weight.

Thanks again all!
__________________
Pezzman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-25-2013, 10:14 PM   #8
Senior Member
 
Arch Hoagland's Avatar
 
Monaco Owners Club
Workhorse Chassis Owner
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Clovis, CA, USA
Posts: 5,908
I had the same truck....1999 version and did the same thing as you, upgraded from a 22 foot trailer to a 27 foot trailer that had a real high tongue weight.

I added a WDH and then I added air shocks. Then I sold the truck and bought a 3/4 ton GMC with the 8.1 gas engine. That was the solution.

Hate to tell you this but your wasting your time and money trying to get the 1/2 ton to do the job.

Twere I you I'd go buy a diesel.
__________________
2004 Monaco La Palma 36DBD, W22, 8.1, 7.1 MPG
2000 LEXUS RX300 FWD 22MPG 4020 LBS
Arch Hoagland is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-25-2013, 11:30 PM   #9
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 1,079
Figuring a trucks payload is pretty simple math if you have weighed your trucks front and rear axles separately.

I ran your truck with a LTZ package on GMs online weight calculator and it came up with just over 1700 lbs for a payload. However after you load the truck that number drops....how much depends on those scaled weight numbers.

Some folks like myself travel lite so my payloads are close to the mfg payload number. Some folks travel with the kitchen sink and a truck bed full of firewood/etc which eats up payload.

The '14 26rpbr Bullet shows a 1760 CCC added to your 5755 number comes out a 7500 GVWR which is well under your trucks tow rating and carrying ability.

Oh yeah, your new '13 truck is nothing like a '99 1500 truck other than its a 1/2 ton truck. Even my wifes '06 1500 crew cab 4x4 chevy truck is hands down better towing 1/2 ton loads than a '99 model. IMO some folks miss their setup and don't realize some 1/2 ton owners do not.

Same with the new '14 model trailers vs older models. Find out what improvements were made in the '14 model.
__________________
'03 Dodge 2500 Cummins HO 3.73 NV5600 Jacobs
'98 3500 DRW 454 4x4 4.10 crew cab
'97 Park Avanue RK 28' 2 slides
JIMNLIN is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-26-2013, 09:29 AM   #10
Moderator Emeritus
 
SmokeyWren's Avatar


 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Midland County, Texas
Posts: 3,330
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pezzman View Post
I'm looking into a WDH, probably the Reese dual cam setup, but I'm not sure if that will be enough to distribute the tongue weight of this trailer???
Ignore the dry weights of the trailer and the tow vehicle. Use the GVWR of both to see the maximum weight they can have without being overloaded.

... Use 15% of the GVWR of the trailer to estimate the tongue weight of the wet and loaded trailer.

... Be certain the spring bars of the weight-distributing (WD) hitch are rated for more than the maximum hitch weight, but not much more.

That trailer has a GVWR of 7,500 pounds, so wet and loaded hitch weight of 1,125 pounds. So you want a WD hitch rated for 1,200 pounds tongue weight. Both Reese Straight-Line and Equal-I-Zer WD hitches are available with 1,200 pounds max tongue weight.

As others suggested, load the pickup with all the people, pets, tools, options and stuff that will be in it when towing. Include the shank and ball mount for the WD hitch (or add 50 pounds to the total if you don't have the hitch yet). Drive to a truckstop that has a certified automated truck scale, fill up with gas, and weigh the wet and loaded pickup (including driver and everyone else in the pickup).

Subtract the weight of the wet and loaded pickup from the GVWR of the pickup. If the answer is not at least 1,125 pounds, then you'll probably be overloaded when towing that trailer on the third camping trip.

Quote:
I know one of the towing Guru's on the site will be able to give me an idea if I'm looking at the wrong trailer, considering my current tow vehicle. Upgrading to a 3/4 ton truck is not an option at this point, since I just purchased my current truck 3 months ago!!
Lots of half-ton pickups are overloaded when towing a TT with GVWR more than 5,000 pounds. Even mine. My F-150 has GVWR of 7,100 pounds, but I' m overloaded with GVW of 7,200 pounds when towing my TT that weighs only 4,780 pounds with 650 pounds hitch weight. Unless your pickup has a heavy duty suspension that gives you more payload than a normal half-ton pickup, then don't be surprised of you cannot tow a trailer that has 1,125 pounds hitch weight without exceeding the GVWR of the pickup. I have plenty of power to tow a 7,500 pound trailer over hill and dale, and even up steep mountain passes, but not enough payload capacity to haul the hitch weight of that trailer without being overloaded.
__________________

__________________
Grumpy ole man with over 50 years towing experience. Now my heaviest trailer is a 7,000-pound enclosed cargo trailer, RV is a 5,600 pound Skyline Nomad Joey 196S, and my tow vehicle is a 2012 F-150 3.5L EcoBoost SuperCrew.
SmokeyWren is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
weight



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


» Virginia Campgrounds

Reviews provided by


Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 09:47 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.