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Old 10-26-2012, 05:47 PM   #1
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Truck tow information

We are considering moving from a class A to a 5th wheel and need some information regarding the tow vehicle.

Thinking of either the Ford or Chevy. I think I understand the issues between the towing capacity and weight of the trailer (loaded) however, while reading other blogs now see comments regarding the pin weight.

Looking at the spec sheets on the Ford and Chevy I see nothing about pin weight.

Can anyone explain where and how do you obtain the pin weight. I presume that this is the weight at the point where the 5th wheel king pin meets the truck mounted hitch.

The 5th wheel we are looking at is a 2013 30' Cedar Creek 29RE GVWR
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Old 10-26-2012, 09:18 PM   #2
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Don't see a 29RE in the Cedar Creek website but there is a 29RE in the Silverback 5th wheels on FR websites.

29RL Specs I see shows a 13615 GVWR with a 3645 CCC and a 1615 dry pin weight with a 9970 lb shipping weight.

This may not be the unit your looking at but we can do its numbers as a example. Pin weight will be close to 20 percent of the trailers GVW.

Using the 9970 lb shipping the pin weight will be close to 2000 lb of pin weight.
Or if you load 3645 lbs of stuff in the trailer the pin weight may be close to 2700 lbs.

That will be the lightest and the heaviest.

IMO you may load maybe 1500-2000 lbs of stuff = 12000 lb gross for approx 2400 lb pin weight.

Using the 2700 lbs of pin weight will be maxing out a F250/2500.

For that size trailer the F350 SRW or GM 3500 with the 11500 GVWR and 7000/7050 RAWR package will handle that size 5er fine.
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Old 10-28-2012, 08:36 AM   #3
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I just did a quick check of the Ford website. An F-250 can have a payload of as much as 4240 lbs and rated to tow a 5th wheel weighing as much as 16,800 lbs.

My Everest tops out at 14,000 GVWR and my Chevy 2500HD pulls it just fine. The only thing we did was add Firestone airbags to add some stability. I wouldn't tow anything heavier with my truck but some people do.

If I had it to do over again I would have bought a dually but when we bought the 2500HD a 5er was not on the horizon.
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Old 10-28-2012, 09:26 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by azdryheat View Post
I just did a quick check of the Ford website. An F-250 can have a payload of as much as 4240 lbs and rated to tow a 5th wheel weighing as much as 16,800 lbs.
.

The fallacy of these ratings is that they are based on a base model truck, ie. no cargo, no accessories, no options, no hitch and no passengers other than a 150# driver. I do not know of very many 150# RV drivers and the 5er hitch will ad 150#.

The only way to know for sure is to weigh the truck loaded for travel and add for the hitch.

GVWR - loaded truck = max loaded trailer pin weight.

GCWR - loaded truck = max loaded trailer weight.

As a point of reference, my 2012 crew cab, 2 wheel drive, F350 dually with a tool box, hitch, full fuel, me and the copilot weighs in at almost 8900#. This is substantially more than the brochure curb weight for the truck.

For the trailer you are looking at, I'd go ahead and get an F350/3500 single rear wheel.

Now you will get the folks that claim the F250 and F350 SRW are identical except for the Spacer blocks on the back...well maybe so, but the stamped weight rating on the door jamb says otherwise on weight rating.

Adding air springs (bags) to the rear suspension, does nothing as to raising the towing capacity or rating. They may level out the load and provide a better ride when loaded.

If you think you may be going larger on a trailer, you may want to consider going ahead and get a dually for that larger trailer.

Ken
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Old 10-28-2012, 11:32 AM   #5
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GVWR - loaded truck = max loaded trailer pin weight ?

GCWR - loaded truck = max loaded trailer weight ?

OH - I was reading the minus sign as a dash

GVWR minus loaded truck = max loaded trailer pin weight.
10000 minus 9000 = 1000 as an example

GCWR minus loaded truck = max loaded trailer weight.
23000 minus 9000 = 14000 as an example

AND rear axle weight rating will probably be your Achilles heel where you will be over.
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Old 10-28-2012, 11:01 PM   #6
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But the truth is no one in a legal capacity gives a hoot how much you're towing or if you'r over CGWR. RV's do not get on the trucker scales. The only people legally tied to GVWR, CGWR, etc. are COMMERCIAL haulers. There is nothing on the legal books to catch an over-weight RV unless their weight puts them into the commercial category by being over 26,000 lbs.

Some states, like CA want you to get an RV-type endorsement if your trailer is over a particular weight. But you will not be ticketed if your rig is over weight because there are no laws on the books governing RV weights.

My truck says it's ok to pull a max 5er weight of 13,900 lbs. I'm sure Chevy took into account people, pin weight, etc. to come up with that figure. Yes, they do have all sorts of legal disclaimers but they still post a figure. My trailer maxes out at 14,000 GVWR and it doesn't weigh that much so I'm not at all concerned about the weight issue. I'm not concerned about pin weight as there are folks hauling 3,500 lb campers in the beds of their 3/4 ton pickups. Nothing breaks, stability is fine and they are happy.

I recall looking at new Heartland Bighorns and Heartland has a sign saying the trailer is designed to be pulled by a 3/4 ton truck. That's a pretty big statement to make in this day of heavy litigation but there was the sign. Trailer was rated at 14,000 lbs.

My rule of thumb is to keep the GVWR of the trailer close to the 5th wheel GVWR recommended by the truck manufacturer.
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Old 10-29-2012, 07:20 AM   #7
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[QUOTE=azdryheat;1353934]

My truck says it's ok to pull a max 5er weight of 13,900 lbs. I'm sure Chevy took into account people, pin weight, etc. to come up with that figure. Yes, they do have all sorts of legal disclaimers but they still post a figure.
QUOTE]

Yes, now read the fine print on the brochure ratings. It states that none of the ratings are to be exceeded...GAWR, GVWR or GCWR.

And they did take one 150# drive into account.

People find all sorts of self-judgements to justify the use of a smaller truck.

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Old 10-30-2012, 09:24 PM   #8
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Not to put to fine a point on it, but getting a ticket for being overweight is the least of the problems. Should you have an accident, your insurance company will have someone drag every piece of truck and RV they can find to the nearest scales, or at the very least demand to see a recent set of scale printouts, and if you are overweight on any of the truck or RV mfr. ratings, you can kiss your insurance coverage goodbye.

Perhaps it is the risk management side of my prior life in a galaxy far, far away, rearing its ugly head, but is it worth the gamble?
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Old 10-30-2012, 11:03 PM   #9
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[QUOTE=TXiceman;1354065]
Quote:
Originally Posted by azdryheat View Post

My truck says it's ok to pull a max 5er weight of 13,900 lbs. I'm sure Chevy took into account people, pin weight, etc. to come up with that figure. Yes, they do have all sorts of legal disclaimers but they still post a figure.
QUOTE]

Yes, now read the fine print on the brochure ratings. It states that none of the ratings are to be exceeded...GAWR, GVWR or GCWR.

And they did take one 150# drive into account.

People find all sorts of self-judgements to justify the use of a smaller truck.

Ken
azdryheat may be correct if he has used GM weight calculator. The weight calculator will add all the options weight of say a loaded LTZ crew cab 4x4 Dmax/A with all the bells and whistles or std cab long bed 6.0 gasser 2wd work truck model. It also gives the tow rating for these configurations much like Fords Fleet Advisory spec sheets.

Adding weights of all the options is overblown a bit on this forum. Especially advice that the truck shown on the mfg website is some how a stripper model. When in fact many of todays truck models include as std equipment most of yesterdays options.

And yeah, weighing the trucks individule axle weights is the best option but not practical when you don't own the truck or the trailer. Thats where the mfg website spec sheets can be the only practical help.
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Old 10-31-2012, 09:49 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by azdryheat
I just did a quick check of the Ford website. An F-250 can have a payload of as much as 4240 lbs and rated to tow a 5th wheel weighing as much as 16,800 lbs.

My Everest tops out at 14,000 GVWR and my Chevy 2500HD pulls it just fine. The only thing we did was add Firestone airbags to add some stability. I wouldn't tow anything heavier with my truck but some people do.

If I had it to do over again I would have bought a dually but when we bought the 2500HD a 5er was not on the horizon.
For 2012 Ford has a better break down of payload/weights...
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sourc...m8w1i_cK4itJGA
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Old 11-02-2012, 05:29 PM   #11
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Here's what I would do -- Take a truck you think you might buy on a test drive and go to a truck scale at a truck stop. Weigh the truck with the front axle on one section and the rear axle on another. Now you would have to add approx 150 lbs on the rear axle for the hitch and 6.5 lbs/gal for any fuel you would have in addition to what's in the test truck. (That would be a best guess, i.e. 3/4 tank needed with 38 gal capacity) Looking at my truck I would add approx 70 percent to the rear axle. However you now have a decent guess as to what the total weight of the truck would be. If truck has a 10,000 lb GVW your max pin weight would be 10,000 lb minus weight of truck. A decent guess for fiver pin weight would be 20 percent of fiver GVW.

My 2005 F250 4x2 SuperCab diesel ready to tow with hitch, full fuel, dog and 2 people weighed in at 7,400 lbs leaving 2,400 lbs available for extra load on the truck. The 34ft fiver loaded at 13,980 lbs put 2,780 lbs on the truck so I was 380 lbs over truck's rated GVW even though I was 1,540 lbs under the rated combined weight and approx 400 lbs under max rear axle.
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