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09-25-2017, 09:56 AM
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#29
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Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Palm Coast Florida
Posts: 12,995
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After 10 years towing campers and 5th wheels and 35 years towing boats I would limit any half ton truck to towing a 6,500 lb. wet camping trailer and a 7,500 lb. boat. It will not be pleasant towing more.
Any heavier and you would be in 3/4 ton territory.
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09-25-2017, 11:15 AM
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#30
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Senior Member
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Spicewood, Tx
Posts: 708
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ksatter
Dayle,
I want to clarify something! You have LT type tires on both your truck and trailer? Thanks in advance for your response.
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Yes, LT tires on your truck will help reduce tendency for sway when towing. And yes on the trailer as well, last trailer had Maxxis ST tires that failed at 3 years, in fact Manufacturers recommend replacement at 3 to 5 years. The LTs were still fine at 4 years when I traded it. Current trailer was only 3 months old when the ST tire failed.
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09-25-2017, 11:46 AM
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#31
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Senior Member
Thor Owners Club Pond Piggies Club Outdoors RV Owners Club
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: NE. Ohio USA
Posts: 5,973
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Now with my 14' Tundra 5.7L 6.5' bed with a 9900lb towing max.. I tow a 26' tt 4400 dry / 5500-6000 loaded. Dry tongue is 550...so might be at 700+ loaded. Zero issues towing...went to Alaska last summer 14k miles, Yellowstone 5k this year...
Looking to purchase a new Timber Ridge at 6600 dry (28' 6"). I know this will be about as much trailer I would like to tow. While in Myrtle Beach I asked a few Tundra owners towing 10k 12k 14k (loaded) pound trailers....most had air pucks or air bags added to the rear suspension of their Tundra's
Quote:
Of course. The main reason is your tow vehicle (TV) doesn't have much payload capacity for hitch weight,. Travel trailers (TTs) average 13% wet and loaded tongue weight while smaller 5ers average about 18% to 20% pin weight (weight of the kingpin on the 5er hitch). So you'll probably be overloaded with even a very small TT, and severely overloaded with a small 5er.
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Are you saying Toyota's towing capacities are over stated? A very small tt like a 18' or 19'. I thought they (Toyota) was J2807 compliant? Or has that been canceled? or changed
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09-25-2017, 11:52 AM
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#32
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Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Palm Coast Florida
Posts: 12,995
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What a truck can tow and what a truck can tow comfortably are not the same thing.
How much white knuckle driving do you want to do? How much engine noise do you want to hear? How many steering corrections do you want to make per 1/4 mile of driving. There is comfortable towing, tolerable towing, and no so tolerable towing.
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09-25-2017, 04:26 PM
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#33
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Member
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Greenback, Tn
Posts: 83
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How much does the PP3 hitch weigh?
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09-25-2017, 05:26 PM
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#34
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Member
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Greenback, Tn
Posts: 83
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Very good information! Thank you and safe travels.
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09-26-2017, 05:06 AM
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#35
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Member
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Greenback, Tn
Posts: 83
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I know I'm probably splitting hairs on this question. If you have a 650 lb tongue weight on the TT. Can you in theory reduce the tongue weight by placing let's say, 150 lbs inside the rear of the trailer? Thanks for the advice.
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09-26-2017, 05:29 AM
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#36
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Senior Member
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Spicewood, Tx
Posts: 708
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ksatter
I know I'm probably splitting hairs on this question. If you have a 650 lb tongue weight on the TT. Can you in theory reduce the tongue weight by placing let's say, 150 lbs inside the rear of the trailer? Thanks for the advice.
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You can increase or decrease tongue weight by how you load the trailer. But a lighter tongue weight will cause towing stability issues and each setup will be different and each day towing may be different. The better the tow vehicle and hitch, the lighter the tongue weight can be to a limit. Then there is the practical issue of where items should be stored based on floorplan. Anyway you shouldn't count on a reduced tongue weight as a solution for a marginal setup, it may not be possible.
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09-26-2017, 06:08 AM
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#37
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Member
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Greenback, Tn
Posts: 83
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That makes sense! If I understand correctly, I should be consistent in my load weight and position inside the trailer each time. This should make it more consistent in handling. Thanks again for the info.
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09-26-2017, 09:10 AM
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#38
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Senior Member
Winnebago Owners Club
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 14,885
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One of the issues with towing near or over weight is stability. Many do this and travel thousands of miles without issue.
My advice is if you are near your capacity the best thing to do is slow down, give yourself lots of room and always drive on the cautious side.
My observation is when things are going good everything is great but when they go south things occur very quickly.
__________________
Gordon and Janet
Tour 42QD/InTech Stacker
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09-26-2017, 12:17 PM
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#39
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Junior Member
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Evansville, IN
Posts: 13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tuffr2
After 10 years towing campers and 5th wheels and 35 years towing boats I would limit any half ton truck to towing a 6,500 lb. wet camping trailer and a 7,500 lb. boat. It will not be pleasant towing more.
Any heavier and you would be in 3/4 ton territory.
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Could not agree more
__________________
2008 Gulf Stream Kingsport 260BH
2013 Ford F150 CCSB FX4 3.5 ecoboost
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09-26-2017, 12:44 PM
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#40
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Moderator Emeritus
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: HillBilly country, Smokey Mtns
Posts: 4,171
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Superslif
Are you saying Toyota's towing capacities are over stated?...I thought they (Toyota) was J2807 compliant? Or has that been canceled? or changed
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J2807 has not changed recently, but it is often misunderstood. For the same reason you apparently misunderstood it.
The J2807 GCWR (and tow rating) limit ASSUMES you do not exceed any of the other weight limits of the tow vehicle. GVWR, GAWRs, hitch weight limit, etc.
The problem with the Tacoma is it will exceed the GVWR and maybe the rGAWR with any tandem-axle trailer that reaches the tow rating (or GCWR).
So the answer is to ignore the GCWR and never exceed the GVWR or rGAWR of the Tundra. And I assume that only an idiot would overload the receiver hitch or WD hitch.
It requires a lot more work and knowledge to be certain that your tow vehicle doesn't exceed the J2807 towing limits. You cannot simply rely on the GCWR or the manufacturer's tow rating. They are J2807 compliant, but only if you do not exceed any of the other weight limits of the tow vehicle.
If there are any options on the tow vehicle, or any weight in the tow vehicle other than a skinny driver, then GCWR is not the limiter as to how heavy a travel trailer you can tow. Payload capacity (GVWR minus the wet and loaded weight of the tow vehicle) is usually the limiter, but some half-ton pickups have a weak rear axle so rGAWR is the limiter.
In the case of your Tundra, if you tie onto a 9,000-pound TT, you're going to be overloaded, and thus not in compliance with J2807.
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09-26-2017, 04:54 PM
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#41
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Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Oregon
Posts: 6,620
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Saw all kinds of setups this weekend. Saw a Tundra Crew Max towing a Reflection 5th wheel. And no it wasn't the new 150 1/2 ton model.
Saw a several towing Th and TT with only simple round bar WD. No sway control. One guy was towing a 37'10" 9,000+lb TT with an F350 SRW CC LB.
Not codoning or advising either way here, but it seems that only on RV forums do people get chatised for towing close to their limits or with no WD.
Out in the real world you see many that just hitch up with what they have and hit the road. You would think that with 400,000 new trailers getting sold each year and figuring last years and the years before that you'd think you see more and more trailers in the ditch. I'm in one of the more popular RV states and I very rarely have ever seen an RV wreck.
Sometimes I wonder how much hysteria or common sense gets lots in all the tow talk.
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09-26-2017, 05:32 PM
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#42
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: "Murvul", TN
Posts: 1,658
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cumminsfan
Saw all kinds of setups this weekend. Saw a Tundra Crew Max towing a Reflection 5th wheel. And no it wasn't the new 150 1/2 ton model.
Saw a several towing Th and TT with only simple round bar WD. No sway control. One guy was towing a 37'10" 9,000+lb TT with an F350 SRW CC LB.
Not codoning or advising either way here, but it seems that only on RV forums do people get chatised for towing close to their limits or with no WD.
Out in the real world you see many that just hitch up with what they have and hit the road. You would think that with 400,000 new trailers getting sold each year and figuring last years and the years before that you'd think you see more and more trailers in the ditch. I'm in one of the more popular RV states and I very rarely have ever seen an RV wreck.
Sometimes I wonder how much hysteria or common sense gets lots in all the tow talk.
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Common sense doesn't seem to be as common today as it was in yesteryear....and to expand on that thought, it seems to me that Common Sense would dictate that towing anything that causes your towing rig to be overloaded is just not good sense. The Towing and all associated ratings have been placed on vehicles for a good reason, by thousands of engineers with a lot more smarts in their respective fields than many of us have in that arena. I simply cannot understand how people can simply think that they are better equipped to make a decision about their safe towing than the folks that designed and engineered the tow vehicles. Common sense would seem to dictate that GVWR, GCWR, GAWR (both axles), and payload are NOT arbitrary points of discussion that you can pick and choose which ones to abide by and which ones to ignore......yet people do it every single day. So, I'll go back to my opening line....Common sense doesn't seem to be as common today as it was in the past!
__________________
2016 F350 Crew Cab Dually Diesel King Ranch 4x4
2018 Grand Design Momentum 394M Toy Hauler
Excessive Payload Capacity is a Wonderful Thing!
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