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Old 02-20-2019, 05:05 AM   #15
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get a3/4 ton truck,bigger brakes,and much more stability.the tundra lost thr frame,is now a unibody vehicle ,as a mechanic it has no towing ability other than utility trailer.just my 2 cents,only worth a penny due to inflation.......
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Old 02-20-2019, 05:40 AM   #16
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If you already have the Tundra then tow the trailer with a good WDH with sway control such as a Reese Straightline. I am towing right at the limits of the Tundra at 9400 lbs fully loaded and find next to no difference towing this trailer than my previous 7200 lb loaded trailer. The Tundra tows great, stops great and handles the trailer just fine. You get a lot of misinformation from people who don't know. One poster says the Tundra has not frame which is totally incorrect. It is built to tow within it's limits just like any other truck on the market.

Just wanted to add that my 7200 lb trailer was 32' so longer than the Cougar you are looking at. Towed it without any issues for 10s of thousand miles. Never had an issue even in panic stop situations, windy conditions, rain or anything else. You will do just fine with that trailer and a Tundra.

Rob
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Old 02-20-2019, 06:09 AM   #17
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If you really want to understand the dynamics of towing Iíll suggest to not get the education off this or any other forum.

A good place to start is here https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/4e8...336eef1e34.pdf

Understand tire cornering stiffness
https://www.mas.bg.ac.rs/_media/istr...gvorotovic.pdf

While many mean well they donít understand the basic concepts.
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Old 02-20-2019, 07:40 AM   #18
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Setup is everything when at the Mfg rated limits. Cat scales take the guess out. Many people have no idea how to use them properly or their value. Calbar and Demiles are right you get good & good intentioned advice on forums unfortunately sorting out which is which mostly only comes from experience.

When not boondocksing the most common camp ready (Batteries propane minimal water supplies) weight is nearly 1,000 pounds over dry weight. So best estimate on your trailer would be 7,500 pounds. This will work well with either truck you are looking at but the Tundra would especially gain stability by setting your WDH & TT loading by CAT scale results. (As it’s lighter & has a softer suspension) You would be near gvwr and could be with poor setup at drive axle limit with a 7,500 pound TT. The process of setting your rig up for safety is something that can be addressed

Scales typically cost about $12 initial weigh $2 per additional so for less than $20 you can set your family / rig up for maximum stability & safety. Once done it’s often good for the life of the trailer & truck unless you radically change your loading.

With a TT this size you should be using a WDH with built in sway control. When using a WDH tongue weight is no longer static but becomes dynamic due to the leverage of the WDH. You find tongue weight using your scale slips by subtracting the unloaded truck axle weights from your loaded truck axle weights. You can add this tongue weight to the TT axle weight from your scale slip to get your gross trailer weight. You can find the TW percentage by dividing the TW into the gross trailer weight.

You will also find that by adjusting your WDH springbars etc and weight placement in your TT that you can to a point adjust or set your tongue weight. Ideal safe for a box TT and the weight limitations of a 1/2 ton would be to work toward 12.0 percent tongue weight. So with a 7,500 TT that would be 900 pounds of tongue weight.

As mentioned either truck would be suitable for this TT both have the same caveat terrible fuel economy when towing and really bad fuel economy when not towing. If going the RAM route consider the factory rear air ride as it won’t ride as harsh as the other 3/4 tons also I would wait for the soon to be released 8 speed transmission. I tow TTs commercially with the 8 speed in the 1500 Ecodiesel to the tune of 517,000 miles. The 8 speed will be a dramatic improvement in the HD Hemi Ram.
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Old 02-20-2019, 07:48 AM   #19
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Thanks very much for sharing your experience Scbwr. We really think this is the largest trailer we'll ever want to tow, as it has everything we could dream of, so I don't think we need a 2500 for expandability. But we will drive both 1500 and 2500 to compare.

Does anyone think the ford 150/250 might be a better choice than the Ram?
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Old 02-20-2019, 11:17 AM   #20
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I test drove a 2018 Ram 2500 with a 6.4 Hemi and the 2017 Ford F-250 with the 6.2. Both gas engines. I liked both trucks but bought the F-250. So I think to answer your question 'Yes'.

You will want to look at the hitch on the F-250. It is impressive.

Anyway...any of the new half ton trucks will do...kinda. As you will find out it is a degree of success.

I test drove a lot of the trucks. The 2019 Ram 1500 was the nicest. Comes with factory air suspension.

Go test drive and you will find they are all very nice and will understand how they sell 500,000 to 900,000 of these vehicles per year. Test drive a Ford F-150 with the 3.5 eco-boost engine. Step on the gas and see if you do not smile. That is the most powerful gasoline engine in 2019.

Good luck
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Old 02-20-2019, 12:27 PM   #21
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Lots of experience and lots of advice on iRV2

You are getting lots of advice from experienced people here. Each approaches the issue from a different perspective and demonstrates a strategy.
Because of your physics back ground you are in a much better position to understand the math and physic and choose a strategy that is good for you. On the other hand practical experience is needed and some times comes at a high price.
You can tow a big trailer with a small truck. You can tow a small trailer with a big truck. Each has its advantages and disadvantages. Ultimately it is your choice.
You know how to calculate forces and in general how things will behave when combining these forces. You know velocity makes a big difference in what happens with a small tow vehicle as speed increases.
Assuming you want to tow at normal highway speeds, choose a bigger tow vehicle or a smaller trailer. From a physics point of view I recommend you start your planning by ignoring published actual weights. Work with gross weights. This usually gives you some margin in performance results.
The formulas for towing are available as well as applications for calculating loading. They can be highly complicated like the military load calculation programs, or simpler like those intended for typical TT buyers.
For an easy start, use the published combined gross weight maximum for the truck. Subtract the maximum gross weight of the truck. Use that to limit the trailer selection. Of course you can reverse that process and start with the trailer and calculate the tow vehicle requirements.
Keep in mind, any individual truck or trailer will vary from the published values. As you narrow the field, you need to repeat all calculation based on the stickers attached to the actual vehicles. If you stay within the vehicle manufactures recommended values you should be relatively safe.

The more you push the limits of your chosen rig, the more it becomes necessary to carefully plan and test. You will have to pay more attention to things like tongue weight. Published tongue weights vary as much as 100% from actual. You need to know the physics differences between using a weight distribution hitch and air bags.

Finally, when you push limits you must use actual loaded weights to validate your planning down to each wheel. The more margin you leave in your planning the better the experience you will have on the road.
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Old 02-20-2019, 12:31 PM   #22
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A 1/2 ton Tundra vs a 2500 Ram (or any 3/4 ton brand) is apples vs oranges

The 2500 Ram has a 10000 GVWR and can have up to 6500 rawr for 3200-3400 lb in the bed payloads.

The tundra may have 7xxx gvwr and small 4200 rawr for around 1400-1700 lbs in the bed payload depending on cab /other selections.

Ram or a GMC/chevy or the Ford 3/4 ton are all about the same . One isn't better than the other. Just choose one in the color you like and enjoy.

Fords F150HD has a 7850 gvwr and 4800 rawr and can have 2000-2400 lb in the bed payloads. It comes with the 3.5 v6 ecoboost engine which has more towing power than any of the other brands V8 engines plus it gets better mpg than the V8s when not towing.
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Old 02-20-2019, 01:15 PM   #23
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I cant speak for new trucks, as my Tundra is a 2012. Those who state they don't have a good frame, I suggest you compare them. My cousins 2012 Dodge 1500 has a frame almost rusted through. My frame still looks new, and is twice as thick as his. The brakes on my Tundra, are a double piston caliper, which is quite heavy for a half ton. I pull my 8000 lb boat all the time, as well as my enclosed tandem trailer, and equipment and tools for my business. As stated, the Tundra will not stack up against a 3/4 ton as far as numbers, but having owned a Tundra for seven years, and have towed constantly, I am very happy with it. I have owned many Fords as well. My Toyota is rated to tow just over 10,000 lbs. I think around 8000 is a safe area, but I don't think I would approach the 10000 lb mark. Best of luck on your new purchase.
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Old 02-22-2019, 10:00 PM   #24
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We towed an ORV Creekside 23RKS 8000 miles last year with a 2010 Tundra. Many times the water tank was full (80 gal) and we had plenty of gear including a Honda generator, extra fuel etc. the Tundra towed easily from a power standpoint. I was glad to have the AirLift bags but wished for more than the 26 gallon fuel tank, although I rarely needed my extra 5 gal.

The biggest drawback on the trip was not having a diesel going down from Teton Pass. Smoking and mushy brakes were scary to say the least. We made some route changes after that. So if you can afford a diesel, do it!
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Old 02-22-2019, 10:41 PM   #25
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Agree that 1/2 ton vs. 3/4 ton is apples and oranges. Both trucks are great with what they are made for. A 7-8000# trailer is just a much better fit with the 3/4 ton.
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Old 02-22-2019, 11:12 PM   #26
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I have an ORV Creekside 23 trailer. Loaded I’m at around 8000 pounds. Pulled it all over the Canadian Rockies and back to Oregon just fine with my Tundra BUT when it came time to buy a new pickup, after many carefree years with my trusty Tundra, I bought a Ram 2500 diesel. The Ram is night and day compared to the Tundra when it comes to towing. Better mileage, way better ride when towing, and extremely quiet. It is a very comfortable rig for traveling long distances pulling the trailer. I use it as my daily driver and it is very comfortable around town. The Ram has a coil rear suspension, which I was wondering about, but it has been great. A very well engineered suspension system. I am a die hard Toyota fan boy but this truck has surprised me. First Dodge I have ever owned.
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Old 02-23-2019, 03:58 AM   #27
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Never thought I would say this but I too find the 3/4 tons trucks comfortable. They make great highway cruisers towing or not towing.

If I had to pick a vehicle to drive across the country it would be a truck. But which one would be difficult to pick.
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Old 02-23-2019, 06:20 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PhraminP View Post

The biggest drawback on the trip was not having a diesel going down from Teton Pass. Smoking and mushy brakes were scary to say the least. We made some route changes after that. So if you can afford a diesel, do it!
A diesel shouldn't make much difference going down hill. Gas engines are capable of very good compression braking. Did you down shift your rig to descend the pass or just ride the service brakes? If you rode the brakes I'm not surprised they were smoking. If the truck had been downshifted to an appropriate gear to use lots of compression breaking the service brakes would have barely been needed.
Diesel engines themselves are actually worse at compression braking then gas engines because they don't have a throttle plate. That's why most modern diesels now have exhaust brakes added on. It was the only way to make them do compression braking anywhere near as good as a gas engine.
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