Using a Long Ball Mount

[Ptmarx]

Hi folks, sorry if this has been covered, but I have searched the forums and come up with nothing.
We just bought a 2018 Winnie Drop with a max weight of 3800lbs. and tongue weight around 340lbs. Pretty light. We will tow with either a Ram 1500 with the 5.7 Hemi or Jeep GC. Both more than capable.
We have a bike rack mounted to the front A Frame above the battery and propane tank. This does not give much room for turning before the bikes will hit the tailgate. Also can't open the truck tailgate without hitting the hitch jack. I've been looking into long ball mounts up to 24" from the pin to the ball. My question is has anyone else used these and what pros and cons are there? The ones I've seen have more than adequate tongue weight capacity.
Thanks for any help!

[1bigmess]

If that is the advertised hitch weight, then don't believe it. It would be better to take the Gross Vehicle Weight Rating, and multiply it by 12.5 to get the hitch weight, and even then you'll be wrong, as it might be lighter or heavier based on all the stuff you end up putting on the tongue (batteries are heavy, propane is heavy, the bike rack weighs X, and the bike(s) weigh X), etc.)

Your pickup can handle the hitch weight I'm sure, but the advertised hitch weights are never right, and always far lighter than reality.

The tongue weight eats up your cargo capacity, which can be found on your door sticker.

As to the long ball mount arm, it will protrude more and could be a problem when you enter and exit parking lots and driveways, etc. and the nose of your pickup goes up quite a bit, especially if it has any drop to it. Without knowing the tongue weight of your trailer as it will be ready to go camping, you cannot know if the long arm ball mount you get will handle the weight of the tongue, so spend the extra money and get one that is more long arm ball mount than you need based on the wild guess figure of 12.5% of Gross Vehicle Weight Rating.

[09 harley]

I use a shank from Equa-I-Zer that is 18" rather than the stock 12". I want to be able to open the tailgate. No problems. Now I'm waiting for them to make the shank in the new 2 1/2" size.

[Ptmarx]

Thanks for the info so far.
1bigmess- all of the ball mounts I have seen can handle way more than the hitch weight should be. I am curious about the front end raising with the extra arm length on the hitch. I didn't want to have to use a weight distributing hitch if I don't have to. So far it tows great without one or a sway bar.
09 Harley- did you notice the front raising up any when you use the longer bar?

[09 harley]

Originally Posted by Ptmarx

Thanks for the info so far.
1bigmess- all of the ball mounts I have seen can handle way more than the hitch weight should be. I am curious about the front end raising with the extra arm length on the hitch. I didn't want to have to use a weight distributing hitch if I don't have to. So far it tows great without one or a sway bar.
09 Harley- did you notice the front raising up any when you use the longer bar?

I didn't notice any difference. The weight transfer to the front stays the same with the WDH. I've got a new 2017 Ford F-250 SCLB and it doesn't squat enough to even need the Equal-I-Zer but I use it and I don't even know the trailer is back there.

[SmokeyWren]

Originally Posted by Ptmarx

My question is has anyone else used these and what pros and cons are there? The ones I've seen have more than adequate tongue weight capacity.

1] You have to know your actual wet and loaded tongue weight. With that wet and loaded trailer, it will probably be about 500 pounds, plus the weight of the bikes you add to the tongue.

Use a tongue weight scale to determine tongue weight. Or if you don't have access to a tongue weight scale, then weigh the wet and loaded rig twice, Once with the wet and loaded trailer tied on, and once without the trailer. Add the weights on the steer and drive axles to get GTW on the 4 tires of the tow vehicle. GTW without the trailer subtracted from GTW with the trailer will give you tongue weight (hitch weight).

2] You have to know the tongue weight capacity of your receiver hitch. It should be on a sticker on the frame of the receiver. Crawl under the rear of the tow vehicle and look up to the frame of the receiver to find that sticker. It's probably 500 pounds without a weight-distributing (WD) hitch. The TW capacity of the extended shank should be at least as much as the reduced TW capacity of the receiver.

3] Then you have to know the specs of your ball mount. An extended shank on your ball mount will probably reduce the weight capacity of your receiver by 20% or more. So if your receiver is rated at 500 pounds tongue weight (TW) without a WD hitch, with an extended shank that reduces the weight capacity of the receiver by 20%, your TW capacity will be only 400 pounds without a WD hitch.

4] DO NOT exceed the weight capacity of your receiver. Overloading your receiver can result in disaster.

So using all those facts, if your actual hitch weight including bikes is over 500 pounds, you must have a WD hitch. And if your actual hitch weight exceeds the reduced TW capacity of your receiver because of the extended shank, then you have to have a WD hitch.

Summary: Your desire to tow without a WD hitch is probably not going to be possible if you want to be safe when towing. Be safe.

[Rednax]

From the standpoint of safety, extending the ball rearward is a bad idea. Custom hitches are just the opposite : drilled as close as possible.

For the same reason, a vehicle with short rear overhang is preferred.

[keymastr]

The last 2 posters are absolutely right. Moving the pivot point,(the ball), further back from the rear axle of the truck adds leverage and also increases movement side to side. Therefore sway will be more pronounced and the increased leverage can bend or break your receiver. It will be possible with a weight distributing hitch but still not ideal.

[mrgrayaz]

Guys, its a 3800lbs GVWR trailer.......

[09 harley]

We're talking about a travel trailer, not a 40 foot semi trailer. The increased stress will be minimal and should not pose any danger. Do you think Equal-I-Zer would makes an extended shank that would not be safe? Of course not!
If there are facts that you can give me that refute the testing done by them to certify their shanks then I'm sure we would all be interested.

[Ptmarx]

The extended ball mount I bought is 18". It has a Gw of 10000lbs and 1000lb hitch weight. More than enough to handle a 3800lb max weight camper. Once I hooked it up to my truck, the rear dropped about 3 inches, about the same as the 8" mount. It gives me the clearance I need for my bike rack mounted on the A Frame.
I have not had it up to highway speed to see about excessive sway, but will do that before any trips. I may go ahead and install a tension sway control anyway just as a precaution. I'll report back of how it goes.

[keymastr]

As I said, it will probably be fine but it definitely affects the handling negatively. How much it affects it you will need to determine for yourself. It will put more weight on the rear axle and the pivot point of the ball being further behind the rear axle will make it move from side to side more when turning. That is why 5th wheels tow better because the pivot point is almost centered over the axle so no sideways movement and weight is further forward where it is carried more easily.

I know it is a light trailer as trailers go but it is still 2 tons on the end of that drawbar and anyone who has used a 12 inch breaker bar when an 8 inch wrench would not break a bolt loose can understand that leverage is a powerful force.

I'm not saying don't do it, but respect the forces involved. A few years ago there were a bunch of full size trucks that had factory installed receivers that were failing at much less than the rated weights so just because the stamp on the side says it is ok doesn't mean it will always work. Just be aware of the potential and keep your eye on the welds etc.

[Rednax]

Thinking "weight" is what matters most in all things towing is a bad assumption.

It's wind that is the primary cause of loss of control accidents with travel trailers.

A typical cheap TT has high ground clearance and squared edges.

A crosswind whether man-made or natural INCREASES in force the length of the the trailer as the square edges act as a trap.

Forces are highest at the rear. Why speed matters.

Why keeping the first of the double pendulum "levers" as short as possible matters. An extended shank is a cheater bar.

The second "lever" is the distance from hitch ball to TT axles.

But the wind forces are strongest aft of the axles. And can overcome TT tire slip resistance. The trailer gets airborne from the rear. And is aided by high ground clearance, low wheel travel leaf spring suspension and narrow track. High center of gravity causes this to tilt the rest of the way, sooner.

To maintain the TV tire contact patch, reduce force by shortening the first lever. (The typical square white box needs a lot more to perform better).

Yes, an inch on the shank matters.

[Ptmarx]

I have not been taking all of this lightly and therefore doing a lot of research on this.
I am not sure what a standard length drawbar is. Most I have seen are anywhere from 8 to 10 inches from the pin hole to the ball. I did see a statement on one trailer hitch site that hitch weights are based on an 11" drawbar. The bar I bought is 12.5" from pin hole to the ball. I did some calculations and on the safe side used a 10" bar for comparison. I figure that the difference raised my hitch weight up 100lbs. So yes, an inch does make a difference. Luckily, still well within a safe limit. There is also a chart out there that graphs the reduction in capacity and drawbar length. Very informative if anyone is interested.
Now to the other issue that I was concerned about and very well stated by others, sway. Again, I have looked at what others with similar or bigger campers are saying. All seem to be pulling with no adverse effects. This is a short, fairly aerodynamic camper as well. Since I am not using an overly long drawbar, such as 18" or longer, my concern on sway is not as much after looking at the data. I still have not had the chance to highway test the longer bar, but when I do if I see any hint of sway, I will be adding a sway bar.
Thanks to everyone for their insight.