V10 versus ford 6.0 diesel

[jamesrxx951]

Originally Posted by onechaddude

I can tell you our local ambulance service here in my town in nc had three ambulance with ford 6.0 diesels and for two years had at least 2 of the 3 in the shop at any one time. Had to use the last 3 ambulance ( with 7.3 motors) as backup pretty much full time. They scrapped ford and went gm because of the problems. This was all stated in the local newspaper.
Chad

I am supposed to be getting a supervisor position at the local ambulance repair facility here in town (I know the director). They went to the GM/duramax chassis for their ambulances a few years ago. They are now getting rid of that fleet and going to the international medium truck chassis due to reliability. I would rather them get something with a cummins in that size truck but the trucks have been purchased with more coming. One thing I do like in the GM/Duramax chassis is it is on a truck chassis and not a van. Much more cooling room and working room than in a van.

[Tumble Weed]

Amazing a diesel mechanic that works on them is a idiot, do you know him. Every diesel mechanic I know states the same thing, 10, wow a rash of idiots. I don’t know Ken’s mechanic so I can’t vouched for him, but I will vouched for Ken as being very knowledgeable, even in his selection of a mechanic. See you made a statement about his choice in mechanics.

So going by your statement your the only authority we should look to on 6.0L or any Ford motors, we should set a web site for you?
Maybe your one, see I made a statement about you that I don't know if it actually applies since I don't know you. IM glad your passionate about what you believe, but every one else could be correct in there beliefs. I is!

I want to state I don’t actually think you’re a idiot and I’M not trying to start a argument with you.

[jamesrxx951]

Originally Posted by Tumble Weed

Amazing a diesel mechanic that works on them is a idiot, do you know him. Every diesel mechanic I know states the same thing, 10, wow a rash of idiots. I don’t know Ken’s mechanic so I can’t vouched for him, but I will vouched for Ken as being very knowledgeable, even in his selection of a mechanic. See you made a statement about his choice in mechanics.

So going by your statement your the only authority we should look to on 6.0L or any Ford motors, we should set a web site for you?
Maybe your one, see I made a statement about you that I don't know if it actually applies since I don't know you. IM glad your passionate about what you believe, but every one else could be correct in there beliefs. I is!

I want to state I don’t actually think you’re a idiot and I’M not trying to start a argument with you.

My statement is based on if what was said is true. If that guy really thinks it take $8K to make one right, that guy does not know what he is doing. From what I have seen and repaired, most guys don't actually fix the root cause. This was my biggest pet peive working at Ford and helping these techs. They just want a code and replace a part based on a code. Way to many turbos were installed because of low boost codes. They don't know the reasons behind the low boost and seems like they don't know how a turbo generates boost. Just like the EGR cooler failures, that is a side effect of a root cause. However, no one seems to fix the root cause of the failure and just replace EGR coolers. Then they fail again and then it is all over the internet on the amount of failures. I have heard that Cummins requires the techs to call into their Hotline for diag assistance. My guess this is done to help keep the diagnosis accurate and allows for a proper repair at the first time of service. This is not a bad idea, but I would believe this is very costly.

The only reason im on here is to try and help those that have them and try to correct many of the myths. I always state that one should take their truck to a dealer for service but unfortunately I have ran into a lot of idiots there to. However, I have found with working with dealers all over this country and Canada, they it is probably a better choice as the information is more abundant and there is the help from Ford on the issues they may be having. I can tell you how many aftermarket shops bring there problem childs to us and have us replace PCMs, modules, reprogram modules because they can not figure it out. We had on aftermarket shop rebuild a transmission for an EGR issue. Another shop drilled out a servo bore larger because of a ridge in it. That causes a slight pressure leak.

I am in no way saying that 6.0L do not have problems, but based on what I have seen and worked on, in most cases they just were not fixed right the first time and the root cause was not identified. I would be more than happy to go toe to toe with any diesel guy that says they need $8k to make them work and show him how to properly identify and repair the root cause. Maybe he will show me something to. And BTW, the diesel group I worked with at Ford just about all of them said if they could not get a 6.7L, they would love to have a 6.0L. This is a group of people that live and breath diesel problems day in and day out.

[Tumble Weed]

I agree Jim 8K a lot of money. We also reply to questions because we want to help others.
The diesel mechanics I know kind of do it for a liven also, "live and breath diesel problems day in and day out", like I guess all mechanics do.
My point I'M sure your groups a good one, well all think are groups a good one. Do you work for a Ford dealership?
8K groups does seem high. What does it cost for a diesel over haul any way?
Parts kits run from $2765.00 to $3105.00. per a google search. That's just parts.
So is it twice that much?

[jamesrxx951]

Originally Posted by Tumble Weed

I agree Jim 8K a lot of money. We also reply to questions because we want to help others.
The diesel mechanics I know kind of do it for a liven also, "live and breath diesel problems day in and day out", like I guess all mechanics do.
My point I'M sure your groups a good one, well all think are groups a good one. Do you work for a Ford dealership?
8K groups does seem high. What does it cost for a diesel over haul any way?
Parts kits run from $2765.00 to $3105.00. per a google search. That's just parts.
So is it twice that much?

Worked a Ford dealer since 94 through college. Went to work for Ford in Dearborn for a year and some change and came back to the dealer. I did not like the long hours and time away from my wife and dealing with some really retarded techs around the country was really getting to me. I wont go on to much but I decided my calling was a dirt ball. My fix it right the first time scores are almost 100% and that is what I think I do best.

If I was to build a bullet proof 6.0L that really packed a punch, I would get an EGR delete kit, programmer, and stud the heads. Depending on mileage, would either flush out the oil cooler or just replace it. If I was going to get a 6.0L for a 5th wheel (as I was thinking), I would keep it stock. No programmers nothing. Change the coolant around 50K or so and just run the day lights out of it. I cannot say for sure if programming was a root cause of injector failures but out of all the 6.0L that needed an injector, almost all of them were programmed. That is why I would keep the calibration stock.

I will be honest, since the 6.0L came out, only a few engines needed to be replaced that I have seen at the dealer. One was under warranty and the few others were in the transit buss's with over 200K on them and likely twice that based on engine hours due to total city driving. Never overhauled one. But, in the entire market, I know that has to be a lot more than that. However, I have seen and heard of more 6.4L engine failures than 6.0L. Resealed a couple and installed head gaskets do the torque to yield bolts stretching. Also had to install head gaskets on a Duramax also.

You could figure about a grand in a good machine shop bill, the parts seem cheap based on what you quoted but that could be a good price, never priced out just parts. Looking a roughly $4k????? maybe in labor. That is just a guess.

What I would like to do here is help people under stand their truck and keep it reliable cheaply. In most cases just basic maintenance will do. Most failures seem to be from not changing fuel filters, oil changes, and I think Ford was a little lax on the coolant flush recommendations. I feel it should be change more often to prevent the oil cooler issue.

If I get the job at the ambulance facility, I will be getting certified in international medium trucks. That should also help with a all new learning curve. If that does not work out, my current dealer is starting a medium truck shop. I will be the supervisor/working tech for that division. If that is the case, I will be getting Cummins, Allision, and hopefully Cat certified. Looking forward to all of that and what it brings.

[fishinjim]

James, thats interesting that you noted the 6.0L is more reliable than the 6.4L

[jamesrxx951]

Originally Posted by fishinjim

James, thats interesting that you noted the 6.0L is more reliable than the 6.4L

I have noticed more base engine failures with the 6.4. Which is kind of puzzling because the 6.4 and 6.0L look to be very close to the same design with the exception to the high pressure fuel pump on the 6.4L and the 6.0L uses a high pressure oil pump for the injectors. However, I have seen much lower EGR related failures and only a few EGR cooler failures on the 6.4L. I believe most of these are related to T-stat issues and or radiator leak issues. When the coolant is to low, it can induce these types of failures. The 6.4L is sensitive to needing clean fuel filters and the water separator drained more often. This is to help prevent low fuel flow related high pressure pump failures and water induced high pressure pump failures. My biggest thing I dislike about the 6.4L (I guess the duramax does this also) is the regen and pumping fuel into the cylinders during the exhaust stroke. Poor fuel economy and I just cannot get used to a few quarts every oil change of fuel in the engine oil.

[fishinjim]

Thanks for your honest opinion. From my understanding, the 6.0L can be a solid engine with the proper adjustments and maintenance.
If i found one in exceptional condition with the necessary adjustments, i would strongly consider it.

[caissiel]

Originally Posted by fishinjim

Thanks for your honest opinion. From my understanding, the 6.0L can be a solid engine with the proper adjustments and maintenance.
If i found one in exceptional condition with the necessary adjustments, i would strongly consider it.

totally agree. I have a 6.0 going on 6 years and its been a solid performer. Had to replace oil cooler due to coolant quality.
I strongly recommend a ScangaugeII. It can be programed for all vital signs for us 6,0 owners and keeps the truck dependable.
We have been buying cheap ones on auctions. after repairs we do not invest more than $10k. We love it that they have a bad reputation. Great value with fantastic bodies. And they can haul as well as any other trucks.

[KSCRUDE]

Personally I would not want a 7.3 corn binder. Truck too old and poor power. The 6.0 diesels are very iffy at best, but more power. The 6.4 corn binders are a total disaster. The new 6.7 Ford built diesels have the most stock HP and torque. But they love fuel and urea and have a weed burner on them. And are very expensive, $8100 option on a superduty truck. If you get the 3 valve V10 05 and newer superduty trucks they have more power and torque then the older 2 valve motors. They also have the 5 speed auto instead of the 4. I have 3 3 valve V10s and they are pretty much bullet proof. Some triton engines have logged over a million miles without removing the pan or valve covers. They have discontinued the V 10 in the 250 and 350 line anyway. I have a new superduty on order with the 6.2 gas and the new 6 speed select shift auto. It replaces the V10 and is the only gas engine available now. I am getting the 4.30 gears just like the V10 trucks have. Except the MH which has the 5.38 gears I believe. Most people make the mistake of not getting the best ratio and their truck is a dog. Always get the lowest gears available (highest number) and you will be glad you did. We don't put a lot of miles on the pickups or tow all the time or I would have diesel pickups. We use semi trucks for towing.

[TXiceman]

Maybe we all need to get class 8 tractors with a big Cummins or Volvo and then we will not have the problems....million mile engines.

For the $8K he was taking the engine all the way down and building it back to take some abuse (not that any of us would abuse a poor old diesel). But everyone that I knew with a 6.0L has dumped them, but after lots of shop repair time under warranty and before they had to start paying for repairs. Two of them got new engines from Ford. One at 30,000 miles, the other at 40,000 miles. They were towing with them and had lots of towing miles. Others had 2 wets of injectors replace (same truck), a couple with turbo problems and a couple with blown head gaskets. None of these trucks were chipped.

My old 2002 7.3L may not have been as fast as the newer ones, but it got the job done and the only things I had a problem with was the pinon seal, front transmission seal and the alternator. I had a billit steel torque converter and a large stacked plate transmission oil cooler plus the pillar gauges. The truck was run with a Super Chip Microtuner on the Tow Safe Setting and towing at limits.

As for the new 6.7L, so far I have been pleased and no problems. The DEF usage is not a problem and fuel economy is fine and still improving with mileage.

It seems you either got a good 6.0L or a bad one and there seemed to be an abundance of them the first couple of years.

Ken

[Tumble Weed]

With the cost of parts $3105.00 and $4000 "Looking a roughly $4k????? maybe in labor." for labor James stated! The total price is pretty close to $7000.-8000. So sounds like Kens mechanic is in the right ball park.
What I've heard of 6.0L was not to get one, I know the mechanics personally, so I wouldn't have one. I was told by dealer ships in Longview 7.3L was best they ever made and they couldn't understand why ford stop making them.


So I guess the best we can say it's a draw and every one's trying to help.
Opinions are like hair cuts we all gottem. Just some aren't as good as others..

[dbear]

Originally Posted by KSCRUDE

...They have discontinued the V 10 in the 250 and 350 line anyway. I have a new superduty on order with the 6.2 gas and the new 6 speed select shift auto. It replaces the V10 and is the only gas engine available now...

The V10 is still available in 450 & 550 chassis cabs. I've pretty much decided my next truck will be a 450 w/V10, 5sp, 4.88s, & hauler bed. I'm only looking at 16k max trailer weight so that would be within said truck's capacity.

[LTZ470]

Owned 3 different 6.0L:
Ford Excursion - Electronics would black out with engine running - No A/C - No panels - Engine would starting spitting and sputtering and blow black smoke for 15 minutes, clean up and then run normal - finally it had a seizure with my wife 1600 miles from home, by 6.0L Excursion
Ford F350 6.0L towing 16k FW - 36,000 miles dropped turbo 500 miles from home traded for F350 DRW
F350 DRW - didn't keep it long went with Freightliner Sportchassis

Brother in Law F350 SRW - went through three 6.0L engines 157,000 miles last engine was an engine installed by Ford - traded it off with bad EGR