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Old 09-05-2014, 09:27 AM   #15
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logsend,
Then you will be good for any make 1 ton, but you will need a dually to stay within the specs. I am full timing and the dually is no problem as a daily driver, you just have to park a little further out in parking lots, and most drive-thrus you won't fit. A good rule of thumb is, if the mirrors fit, the hips will fit. Also, the comfort level while towing is unbelievable compared to a SWR truck.
I am not trying to talk you into a DWR truck, just stating the facts, I tow a similar weight trailer and know from personal experience.
Frank
Frank; times have changed. Look at the Ram Body Builders site that I provided the link to and see that the SRW trucks are capable now of out pulling and carrying what was accepted able load for your 11 year old dually. Ram has made changes to the frame, cooling system and transmission for these increase load rates. In fact the new one ton dually Ram 4X2, automatic transmission, 4:10 gear set is rated at 37,500 GCWR and to pull a 29,340 trailer max weight and equipment load.

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Old 09-05-2014, 09:43 AM   #16
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I am having the same issue determining a properly sized tow vehicle. I can find specs for max tow, but it is more a payload and max pin weight issue. These numbers seem far more elusive online. Most forum post recommend weighing the rear axle of the truck, but that is not an option for a new purchase. I didn't want to buy a dually, but want to maintain a safe margin on weights too.
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Old 09-05-2014, 11:05 PM   #17
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So you want to get a 5th that should be towed with a 1 ton DRW but you want to tow it with a 3/4 SRW with a short bed. Well,,,,, that's a problem. Seems most issues here are people that want to tow a trailer with just under what it should be towed with. I know what I would do. I would either get the correct TV for my choice of trailer and live with it or scale back my choice of trailer size to fit the TV I want as a DD. Easy. So far you haven't bought anything so you haven't made any mistakes.
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Old 09-06-2014, 11:25 AM   #18
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Jim,
I understand that the newer trucks carry and haul a lot more weight than the older models. I also know that the limits on a SWR truck are the GVWR and the rear GAWR. I did look at the Ram Body Builders Guide and it didn't change my opinion. The max GVWR is 12000# and the max rear GAWR is 7000#. The truck loaded and ready for a trip is going to weigh between 8000 and 8500#probably closer to 8500#(this is for a 2wd model), so the 3600# pin weight will put the GVWR just shy of the 12000#, I would bet that it will put the rear GAWR right at the 7000# max. Another point is that with only a 3.42 axle ratio, do you want to be pulling around 16,500#, even with the 850ft lb of torque?
The end result is that any of the SWR trucks are overloaded with a 16,500# 5er. if you don't believe me, just load them up and lets go to the scales, I know what they read. Even though my truck is 11 years old, the scale numbers don't know the difference. An 8000# truck with a 16,500# trailer = 24,500# to 25,000# GCWR, 11,500# to 12,000# truck GVW and 7000# to 7500# rear axle weight.
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Old 09-06-2014, 12:25 PM   #19
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I don't understand the concern driving a dually; I really don't. I've been driving a dually since 2004 for a daily driver and towing when on vacation. For the last 2 years it has been my only vehicle (being fulltime since 2008, the 2nd car became impractical).

Neither I nor my wife have any issue driving around town, parking in parking lots or driving thru drive-thru's. I'll dd that we DO NOT park out in the far ends of the parking lots. Due to my wife's back, we have a permanent handicap placard and park in the handicap spots when ever possible. There aren't a lot of parking garages where we spend time so I don't have any 1st hand knowledge, but most I've seen my truck weight would fit in them.

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Old 09-06-2014, 05:06 PM   #20
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My low mileage 2003 F250 is rated to tow 13,200 lbs. with a fifth wheel hitch. Pin weight carrying capability is my shortfall, even with AirRide suspension on the rear to level the load.

My thoughts were to buy a fifth wheel trailer with a max. dry weight of 12K and a dry hitch weight of 2K--to not push our truck to the max. We ordered a 2015 Grand Design 323BHS (bunkhouse) fifth wheel and it tows just great.

But if I was going to order a GD Solitude, a Montana or any of the full size Heartland (Big Horn) fifth wheels, a dual rear wheel 1 ton truck would be warranted.

Like they said, buy the trailer and the buy the truck. I am not suffering in my new fifth wheel trailer, and my F250 is all I want to deal with in day to day driving. And my truck's long since been paid for and has many miles left in it.
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Old 09-07-2014, 06:28 AM   #21
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I don't understand the concern driving a dually; I really don't. I've been driving a dually since 2004 for a daily driver and towing when on vacation. For the last 2 years it has been my only vehicle (being fulltime since 2008, the 2nd car became impractical).

Neither I nor my wife have any issue driving around town, parking in parking lots or driving thru drive-thru's. I'll dd that we DO NOT park out in the far ends of the parking lots. Due to my wife's back, we have a permanent handicap placard and park in the handicap spots when ever possible. There aren't a lot of parking garages where we spend time so I don't have any 1st hand knowledge, but most I've seen my truck weight would fit in them.

Just MOHO
Depends on where you go. We are in a small mom and pop rv park, we really like, and the roads in this town were not built for the width of duallys. I have to get outer wheels on shoulder to avoid oncoming vehicles. Also I use it as commute to work. Lots of rough road, dirt parking lots, etc. The dually is like a sled. Jars me really bad. I own one and don't like it. Have to have it or an HDT and believe we going that route and get a Smart car for commute.
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Old 09-07-2014, 12:27 PM   #22
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I am having the same issue determining a properly sized tow vehicle. I can find specs for max tow, but it is more a payload and max pin weight issue. These numbers seem far more elusive online. Most forum post recommend weighing the rear axle of the truck, but that is not an option for a new purchase. I didn't want to buy a dually, but want to maintain a safe margin on weights too.
Payload and MAX pin weight are elusive because of VARIBLES. 2 nearly identical looking trucks can have different axles, options, or added weight from the owners personal stuff added. THEREFORE; weighing a truck and getting it's total weight - fully fueled - preferably with all passengers and tools/stuff ready to travel, AND front/rear axle weights to know what you have to subtract from;
GCWR to get max trailer weight (providing hitch weight is acceptable)
GVWR - the max the manufacturer set for truck and all cargo, fuel, passengers, and anything that put weight on the tires - including the hitch mounted in the bed; to get an accurate payload number. That will be your max pin weight.
Max axle Capacity to know how much your hitch and pin weight can be provided it doesn't exceed max payload.

Manufacturers/dealers should have a curb weight for their trucks and that is a lower number than the actual truck will weigh delivered to you with options installed and a full tank, BUT gives you something to work from without being able to weight it before purchase. Remember, bigger cabs and long beds add weight, so if possible, consider short bed/ standard bed for more capacity.

Undercoating adds weight, so does bed liners, toolboxes, tools, side steps, push bars, stereo amps and bigger speakers, GPS, and so on. Any weight added subtracts from your pin weight.

Stuff you add to the trailer AND where you put It, effects pin weight. Heavy objects (say cast iron cooking set) should be stored nearer to the axles verses towards the front. Toy haulers usually have a heavier pin weight without toys in the garage, as they were designed to carry the extra weight towards the rear of the trailer. Where the manufacturer placed the different fresh, grey, and black tanks - and how much you have in them has an effect on pin weight.

VARIBLES - ALL need to be taken into account or disaster could happen. Decrease your odds by knowing these numbers and adjusting accordingly by having the right truck to tow that trailer.
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Old 09-07-2014, 12:43 PM   #23
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I suggest you re-visit parking at work for a dually. I commuted in a dually for 5 years without problems. My office was in a city center. The building where I worked gave me a parking spot in its loading dock/service area when I asked if they had a preferred location for me to use to park the truck.

Granted, you have to adjust for the size in all driving and parking situations. And, sometimes you have to proceed slowly. The adjustments are easy considering the towing stability you get with the dually.
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Old 09-08-2014, 06:25 AM   #24
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A dually is not an option for us, it just isn't. It's not a matter of not wanting to drive it. It isn't a matter of not going through drive thru etc. For a daily driver for dh to commute to work it is not practical and we don't want 3 vehicles, plus a rv. The parking where he works is not dually friendly, they are barely truck friendly as it is.

I would never ever suggest to someone to buy a fifth wheel they like and get the truck after, that is literally putting the cart before the horse. The truck will come first as it has to be the priority, the rv will come after and with all the choices certainly we can find one that works with the truck we will have.

The numbers are what is complicated about this process for many. I know seasoned folks have it down pat, but us that are new to this don't. We can't take a truck we don't have loaded up with a rv we don't have all loaded up to the scales to weigh. The truck manufactures as well as the rv industry really don't make it easy. They want to sell you a truck, they want to sell you and rv and that is where their interest ends.

So for now Lifestyle sadly is off the short list for us. Thanks for the information as it is all very useful and has helped me understand all the lingo and numbers to use to figure out what we CAN tow!
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Old 09-08-2014, 06:56 PM   #25
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I tow our 15000 lbs 5th wheel with an F250. There are many units that are lighter pin weight. My BC by Heartland has a light pin weight layout that works well.
My friend had a 36ft Cedar Creek with light pin weight.
Some units like Jayco load the pin to save on axle capacity and I would avoid them.
Most SRW with 18 or 20 inch wheels can carry in excess of 4000 lbs. Though the manufacturer does not rate them to full tire capacity, the law does provide the tire capacity as the limit for towing capacity.
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Old 09-08-2014, 09:32 PM   #26
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Whats so hard for some to understand some of us can't use a DRW truck ?? It physically will not work as a DD or go some places when we get the trailer to our destination.
Not all of us has a work place to park a DRW or even allow one.

The Ram has several 3500 SRW with a 12k/12.3k/12.4k GVWR/7000 RAWR and 4400-4600 lb payloads. Trucks shipping weights run in the 7500-7800 lbs. Everyone has different math for how much stuff they put in their trucks so the OP will have to do his own. Some carry the kitchen sink and others a small 20 lb tool box.

GM is the lightest of the big three. The 3500 SRW has payloads up to the 4100 lb range and low 11.4k GVWR/7050 RAWR. Use GM weight calculator in the clicky above for actual weights per base models and chosen options.

Ford ?? Be careful there if your looking at a F350 SRW truck as one owner found out.
Some can have a 10k or a 11.2k GVWR/7000 RAWR/6000 FAWR in the exact same specked truck.
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Old 09-09-2014, 09:44 PM   #27
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In a way the SRW vs DRW discussion is not that different from chats I used to have with friends about motorhomes;
We moved from a 33' pusher to a 42' pusher with a tag axle. The difference is literally black and white with things like crosswinds, lateral stability, braking - the list goes on and on.

The fact remains that the same trailer on a dually will be different when hitched to a SRW TV.

I get that a SRW truck works for some, while a dually may not and I am not putting down either style....... As a previous member suggested - The OP needs to take their time and carefully match the truck and trailer - leaving lots of wiggle room for extras!
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Old 09-09-2014, 10:57 PM   #28
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Since the truck will be a DD and parking at work and at home are needed a 1 ton isn't all too practical.
Let's define terms. My definition of a "one ton" truck is an F-350 dually, or GM or Ram 3500 Dually. And I suspect that may be your definition too. But Ford, GM and Ram also make F-350 or 3500 pickups with single rear wheels (SRW). An F-350 SRW is basically an F-250 that has been beefed up a bit, but it is not in the same class as a real one ton dually.

So when most of these guys say you need a one ton pickup, they mean the heaviest duty pickup with SRW. An F-350 SRW will go anywhere an F-250 with the same options will go. It's better for towing mainly because it has more GVWR (and thus payload available for hitch weight).

For several years now the F-250 (diesel) has GVWR of 10,000 pounds while the almost identical F-350 SRW has GVWR of 11,500 pounds. That extra 1,500 pounds of GVWR means almost 1,500 pounds of additional hitch weight capacity without being overloaded. The F-250 and F-350 SRW are both identical width and length, and with the same options they are very close to the same height.

So don't shy away from a "one ton" SRW pickup until you know the exact specs of the one you're talking about.

Example: 2014 F-250 CrewCab diesel 4x4 "shorty" (with 6.5' bed) has GVWR of 10,000 pounds, and will weigh about 8,500 pounds when loaded with options and a passenger and some tools and other "stuff". So a max of around 1,500 pounds payload available for hitch weight. For a 5er with 17% pin weight, that's a max trailer weight of about 8,824 pounds. The shorty is fine for towing a 5er if you add the appropriate slider hitch or pin box.

Compare that to the 2014 F-350 SRW CrewCab diesel 4x4 "shorty" (with 6.5' bed) with GVWR of 11,500 pounds and almost exactly the same wet and loaded weight of the F-250 with the same options. That one has a max payload of about 3,000 pounds available for hitch weight when loaded to 8,500 pounds before backing up to the trailer. 3,000 pounds pin weight is a 5er with 17% hitch weight and GVWR of over 17,000 pounds.

However, the Lifestyle LS37LK you are considering has a dry hitch weight of 19.49% of dry trailer weight, so your use of 20% is probably more realistic for that 5er. Many 5ers with GVWR around 16k have hitch weight of about 17%, but not the LS37LK.

So your decision to remove the Lifestyle LS37LK from your list is probably a good decision if you don't want to be overloaded on your third RV trip. Keep looking for a suitable RV trailer with GVWR less than about 16k and then you can choose a "one ton" SRW diesel tow vehicle without being overloaded.
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