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Old 07-24-2012, 03:40 PM   #15
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I'm confused. Who's having trouble with the plugs? What happened to the original poster?
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Old 07-24-2012, 03:56 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Perry White View Post
I'm confused. Who's having trouble with the plugs? What happened to the original poster?
x2
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Old 07-24-2012, 04:10 PM   #17
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X3... I was going to post about the overheating of plugs and wires with the 8.1, and the potential need for the after market Kold Air Kit. But I don't know where he went....
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Old 07-24-2012, 04:20 PM   #18
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Some ideas that haven't been mentioned

I'm trying to be helpful.

Because you don't hear the ping doesn't mean it's not happening. (just saying)

Maybe your ping sensor is bad.

Might be an oxygen sensor misleading your ECM into running too lean. Especially if it's been replaced! The failure rate for new ones is worse than old ones, but the EPA mkes us replace them.

Check for intake manifold leaks.

Check for a warped and leaking exhaust manifold. Extra heat there too.

Or maybe they were just bad plugs?
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Old 07-24-2012, 04:36 PM   #19
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X4: I thought I was in the Twilight Zone after the ron4jon post
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Old 07-24-2012, 04:59 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ron4jon View Post
First of all, are any of you automotive engine design engineers? My profession before I retired, from Boeing, was a missile defense engineer. ...
Looks like the board burped (a VERY scientific term from an IT perspective.) and got cornfused on what post belongs to whom. Not sure if ron4jon or HSVcamper is the topic OP.

MEH...so you are a rocket scientist with an attitude.

It appears that "constructive" suggestions are those that support your initial hypothesis. Better yet, the rocket scientist is asking that only engineers toss out something and it needs to be "constructive".

Good luck with that.
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Old 07-24-2012, 05:07 PM   #21
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Engineering? Gotta go now.
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Old 07-24-2012, 11:48 PM   #22
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Ethanol burns 'cooler'...

Ethanol has less energy..

Ethanol has higher octane...

Ethanol is not your problem...

Engineers dont know everything, nor are they smarter..

Its your money, do what you want..
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Old 07-25-2012, 06:41 PM   #23
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GM built it.

GM has a service bulletin to address these concerns.

GM recommends "top tier" fuel.
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Old 07-25-2012, 08:47 PM   #24
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Trailer Haul

Read your owners manual now..you should only use the Trailer Haul when driving in hills and valleys. The engine will tell you when after it starts going into a another gear very often....Your gan mileage will improve greatly on nice long flat interstate travels..Been there..we have a 2500HD 6.0 Gas...Also, this could be the reason the plugs went south, our did..After learning how to use the Trailer Haul correctly we have not had any problems now in 35K miles..
The only rockets I've played with are the driveable kind..Mostly big block chevelles, LS Corvettes(late models) and GTO's....
We pull either a 2003 30' TT Sunnybrook are 2011 Crusader 270RET 5'er..



Quote:
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I'm not a chemical engineer and I don't know for sure but I have read that ethanol burns at a higher temperature than gasoline. So, that is why I suspect the 10% ethanol blend, while the engine is under a load pulling our 8k lb 5er, caused the sparkplug's ceramic to fail.

One thing I failed to add to my post: This truck has an Allison 5 speed transmission which has a "Trailer Haul" mode that is selectable via a push-button switch on the gear selector lever. I always drive this truck in the Trailer Haul mode while pulling my 5er or my utility trailer or my in-bed truck camper. This mode provides a higher rpm up-shift and delays the torque converter lockup well as downhill "engine braking" assist. The engine is in the lower 2000 rpm range while driving on Interstate roads in the mid 60s mph range. I monitor the engine and transmission temperature gauges as well all other gauges and I haven't seen anything occur out of the ordinary. Actually, I'm surprised that the transmission temperature is never very high.

Here in northern Alabama and southern Tenn., "straight" gasoline without ethanol is very hard to find, and especially while traveling within 100 miles of here. So, up to now, I have been using what is readily available, which is 10% ethanol blend without a concern. Now I have lingering concerns.

I belong to the gmfullsize.com forum and so far no one there has posted a similar thread. I will take digital photos of my plugs and post them there is see if someone has experienced similar issues.
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Old 07-25-2012, 09:56 PM   #25
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News flash>>>>> when you post on here you get replys. Maybe not what you want to hear, but non the less you will get them. No need to give the responders a tongue lashing
HSVcamper, ron4jon or whoever, I'm no rocket scientist but your overuse of 'towing mode' and keeping revs down could contribute to the damaged plugs. Not sure one set of bad plugs in one person's truck warrants a "Warning concerning sparkplugs" thread title. I'd do as others suggested, check Oxygen sensor, plug wires, ping sensor, leaking intake, think about Kold Air Kit.

How you jumped to ethanol as the cause with so little evidence is very 'engineering' of you. My brother custom built automated assembly lines for a living. He had to take an engineer's design of an item, from epipens U.S. mint penny line, sprinkler heads and many other products and build a series of robotic machines to assemble and inspect the items. He often laughed at the engineer's ideas and in a matter of minutes had re-ordered and re-designed the assembly to make it easier and cheaper to produce! He had no degree, just motorcycle mechanic training and 20 years experience in a variety of industries. He could out design and out problem solve any diploma hanging, credential waving engineer he or I ever encountered. One look at most modern machinery where the most important, essential components are hidden or only accessible after disassembling the rest of the machine point to an engineer's thinking.

Good luck with your 8.1 L V8 and I hope you resolve your issues.
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Old 07-25-2012, 11:00 PM   #26
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2001 K2500HD, allison, 4.10's 8.1L I have 110,000 on it, pulled an 8000lb toyhauler for 9 years throughout the mountain west.

There are only 3 things that would cause this problem and tow of them are low probability.
Slim chance #1 - plugs were damaged on install.
Slim chance #2 - plugs were cracked by hitting them with cold water when the engine was hot

in #1 and #2 it would be hard not to get a misfire, and the ECU picks up on misfire RIGHT NOW. I've had it pick up a misfire when I could not feel it in the driver's seat.

Most likely - Detonation.

Probable causes - #1 bad fuel. But bad fuel won't create detonation in these engines on it's own, unless it's real, real, bad (like low 80s octane).
#2 - lean condition. (air leak, etc) the ECU will pick this up in the closed loop and dump in more fuel. You'd have to be so lean the injectors can't keep up. If the o2 sensor is bad it will go open loop and dump in as much fuel as possible and let the CAT take care of the excess HC. They do this so you don't melt the engine down. One could get a lean condition with plugged injectors, in which case increasing the duty cycle probably won't get the job done. You'd also see crappy power, gas mileage, etc.

If I had to put it all together I'd say it's low grade fuel combined with heavy loading at low RPM. Letting the RPM drop before a shift is not helping here. the allison can take the abuse - you want revs in this scenario. If you are convinced that's not it, take out the injectors and have them cleaned and flowed.

I hear my truck ping slightly all the time under similar situations, even lightly loaded, at low RPM. The ECU is keeping it on the ragged edge of lean. With all that mass in the engine, tire noise, and fan noise, cab insulation, modern motor and cab mounts, etc, it's really hard to hear.

I'd go down to the Home Despot and buy one of those cheapo borescopes and have a look down the holes. If the tops of the pistons are pitted, it's detonation.

Lay off the engineers guys. Nearly every freaking thing you buy with any kind of manufacturing quantity was designed by us. Yes, there are a lot of clueless young guys on their first job that get out designed by a long-in-the-tooth technician. For every one of those stories there's a tech that re-designed an engineer's product and went well past the design assumptions that were originally made and honked the whole thing up.
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Old 07-26-2012, 01:44 AM   #27
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engineers are fine.. Until I'm told my experience and knowledge doesn't count more than their degree..

This is the 3rd very recent thread an 'engineer', in trouble and needing help, thought no one but him was qualified to actually answer..
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Old 07-26-2012, 11:24 AM   #28
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Whenever someone starts spouting off about their degrees and certificates in such a rude and dismissive way they get what they deserve.

I have a drawer full of them myself. They mean nothing here.
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