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03-23-2017, 08:00 PM
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#15
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: "Murvul", TN
Posts: 1,653
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ajohansson
I bought the andersen leveling ramps so basically just drive forward/backwards until its level. Its a two person job someone has to stand by the trailer with a level and be in communications with the driver to tell them to stop when it gets level.
https://youtu.be/b4JQV15VzBc
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Not if you use a LevelMate Pro. You use the carpenter level one time....when you calibrate and set up the LevelMate. Back into your spot, fire up the LevelMate Pro app for your favorite smartphone and see which side needs to be raised. You or your D.W. places the Anderson leveling ramps under the low side of the trailer (two required for a tandem axle of course), then slowly start backing up and watching the app find level for you. When you get to "0", you are level (within a 1/4"). Chock your wheels and you're ready for the next task.....leveling from front to back of the trailer.
Enter the StrapTek spring bar pullups (they replace your original chain pullups on the trailer. Go ahead and slowly release the tension on the springbars (you can do this one or two clicks at a time). When fully released, unlock the coupler lock and raise the trailer off of the hitch ball and drive out from under it. Use your electric jack to raise or lower until the LevelMate Pro shows you a "0" again and now you are level side to side and front to back.
BTW, I am not associated with either LevelMate Pro..OR...StrapTek, just a very, very happy customer of both.
Google them if you are interested in making the leveling and unhitching of your travel trailer about 100 % easier than the traditional way.
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03-24-2017, 04:55 AM
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#16
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: "Murvul", TN
Posts: 1,653
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Anyone else use the LevelMate and/or the StrapTek pull ups? Surely I can't be the only one on here that does!
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03-24-2017, 06:33 AM
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#17
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Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 1,580
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I don't know why one wouldn't level a trailer precisely one time, using a four foot level, and then stick on a pair of cheap levels on opposite corners. Of course use the frame to check for level. After that, there is no more need for levels and phones, and any twist can be detected.
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03-30-2017, 10:48 PM
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#18
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 343
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xrated
Anyone else use the LevelMate and/or the StrapTek pull ups? Surely I can't be the only one on here that does!
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I have an equalizer not sure the straptek would work and so far i dont find hitching and unhitching to be that big of a deal. Level mate does seam cool.
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03-31-2017, 06:57 AM
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#19
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Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 230
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ajohansson
So got my first trailer big enough for a weight distribution. I have an equalizer now. Just picked up the trailer. When I level the trailer side to side should i disconnect the load bars before doing this? So find my spot. Put down my leveling stuff then disconnect the bars then pull up the trailer? Concerned with trying to release the bars of the trailer is not level with the tow vehicle. Perhaps im overthing thinking it.
Any help appreciated.
AJ
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fact: a WD does not "distribute" weight. so, good luck.
heresy!
you may now petition the admin to ban me from this site.
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03-31-2017, 11:09 AM
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#20
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 343
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobbin
fact: a WD does not "distribute" weight. so, good luck.
heresy!
you may now petition the admin to ban me from this site.
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Huh i thought it brought weight up on the front axle, hence when the bars are loaded the distance between the front fender and the ground was reduced.
If your gonna say something like this perhaps some facts, figures to go with it.
http://www.torklift.com/index.php/bl...-tow-a-trailer
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04-01-2017, 05:04 AM
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#21
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Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 230
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ajohansson
Huh i thought it brought weight up on the front axle, hence when the bars are loaded the distance between the front fender and the ground was reduced.
If your gonna say something like this perhaps some facts, figures to go with it.
Top 7 towing myths debunked - Blog
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A true "weight distributing" apparatus is a snow shoe. This takes the weight from a small footprint and physically distributes it across a larger footprint, to reduce the lbs per sq.ft.
NO hitch point can be enlarged to distribute weight: the hitch point always remains at a 2inch or 2.5inch ball. No bumper-pull hitch can be changed to alter the position of the hitch point: the point is always at the position of the rear bumper. The footprint and position of your hitch point is constant, whether you use a WD hitch or not. So a WD hitch is simply false.
Appearances are deceiving. The effect you experience is caused by torque, not WD. The torque can be a danger, as it will constantly amplify the forces incurred by normal driving and direct these forces away from your stronger rear to your weaker front suspensions. This shift in forces occurs within your frame, causing additional flex and twist forces, thus stressing the frame more than otherwise. Not good.
If you understand basic physics and maths [forces and vectors], I can explain further.
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04-01-2017, 10:46 PM
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#22
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 343
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobbin
A true "weight distributing" apparatus is a snow shoe. This takes the weight from a small footprint and physically distributes it across a larger footprint, to reduce the lbs per sq.ft.
NO hitch point can be enlarged to distribute weight: the hitch point always remains at a 2inch or 2.5inch ball. No bumper-pull hitch can be changed to alter the position of the hitch point: the point is always at the position of the rear bumper. The footprint and position of your hitch point is constant, whether you use a WD hitch or not. So a WD hitch is simply false.
Appearances are deceiving. The effect you experience is caused by torque, not WD. The torque can be a danger, as it will constantly amplify the forces incurred by normal driving and direct these forces away from your stronger rear to your weaker front suspensions. This shift in forces occurs within your frame, causing additional flex and twist forces, thus stressing the frame more than otherwise. Not good.
If you understand basic physics and maths [forces and vectors], I can explain further.
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So what do you do with your trailer?
AJ
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04-02-2017, 08:21 AM
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#23
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Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 230
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ajohansson
So what do you do with your trailer?
AJ
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All I do to my bumper-pull trailers is ensure the centre of mass [similar to centre of gravity] lies forwards of the axles. If this means my TT tongue is over the proverbial 10%, so be it. In fact, my rule of thumb is 15% minimum.
The truck is another matter. I add extra springs or bags to level the load, and ensure the real axle is loaded well below its rating.
I used a WD hitch once with a 1/2 T truck, for a TT well within GCWR, and had a very near disaster from it. imho People have erroneous ideas about a WD hitch. People are now conditioned to think "squat" requires a WD to level the TV. Wrong. Squat is normal and does not always indicate overloading. Say your rear axle is rated for 5000# and the curb loading is 3000#, giving you 2000# "extra". Say the TV will squat too much after 1000# is hitched. Say you hitch 1500# to your TV, causing too much squat. The WD hitch guys will tell you to buy a WD hitch, as you are overloaded by 500#. But are you overloaded, in fact? NO. You are in fact 500# below the max axle rating. You simply need to reduce the squat, and the best, safest means is to add springs or air bags to raise your rear.
This keeps the force of your TT where you need it, at the rear. Why? The rear is designed for this. If you use a WD to torque the 500# from the rear to the front axle, you may likely be overloading your front. Front axles and suspensions, usually, have very little capacity for extra loads. You may not see this overload when at rest, but you will certainly see and feel it when driving. As you go up and down over bumps, side to side, and as you brake, the normal forces to the front will be amplified by the additional torque coming from the rear, thereby grossly overloading the front axle and suspension.
The WD salesmen will not tell you these factors. Check your TV specs to see for yourself.
Of course, others will disagree, and that is fine with me. Forums are about sharing experiences, no? imho, the key is to regard carefully the rear axle rating, leave yourself "extra" capacity, and level by adding springs.
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04-02-2017, 12:57 PM
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#24
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 343
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobbin
All I do to my bumper-pull trailers is ensure the centre of mass [similar to centre of gravity] lies forwards of the axles. If this means my TT tongue is over the proverbial 10%, so be it. In fact, my rule of thumb is 15% minimum.
The truck is another matter. I add extra springs or bags to level the load, and ensure the real axle is loaded well below its rating.
I used a WD hitch once with a 1/2 T truck, for a TT well within GCWR, and had a very near disaster from it. imho People have erroneous ideas about a WD hitch. People are now conditioned to think "squat" requires a WD to level the TV. Wrong. Squat is normal and does not always indicate overloading. Say your rear axle is rated for 5000# and the curb loading is 3000#, giving you 2000# "extra". Say the TV will squat too much after 1000# is hitched. Say you hitch 1500# to your TV, causing too much squat. The WD hitch guys will tell you to buy a WD hitch, as you are overloaded by 500#. But are you overloaded, in fact? NO. You are in fact 500# below the max axle rating. You simply need to reduce the squat, and the best, safest means is to add springs or air bags to raise your rear.
This keeps the force of your TT where you need it, at the rear. Why? The rear is designed for this. If you use a WD to torque the 500# from the rear to the front axle, you may likely be overloading your front. Front axles and suspensions, usually, have very little capacity for extra loads. You may not see this overload when at rest, but you will certainly see and feel it when driving. As you go up and down over bumps, side to side, and as you brake, the normal forces to the front will be amplified by the additional torque coming from the rear, thereby grossly overloading the front axle and suspension.
The WD salesmen will not tell you these factors. Check your TV specs to see for yourself.
Of course, others will disagree, and that is fine with me. Forums are about sharing experiences, no? imho, the key is to regard carefully the rear axle rating, leave yourself "extra" capacity, and level by adding springs.
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this is exactly the type of info that I am asking for.
Ok I just put in all new springs on my excursion. The springs they put in that rig from the factory were not the same springs they put in the F250 super duties. Axles were identical.
This is the first trailer I have put a WD hitch on because I did have some bad sway issues on my last trailer although they are similar. Which is why I put the new springs in. I also added a rear sway bar to my rig and all new shocks.
Here is what my tow vehicle can handle.
https://www.fleet.ford.com/truckbbas...0/bbexcrsn.pdf
Front 5200, rear 7000.
Dry weight on my trailer is 4100 (per factory). Tongue weight per factory dry is 440. 10.7%. I bought a tongue scale but have not weighed it yet. Water is right at the front 66 gallons 528 lbs, 4 - trojan batteries 248 Lb. A rack on front 35 lbs. 60 gallons of propane in two tanks 55 lbs a piece so another 110 lbs.
So i bet im over the 10% and probably close to the 15% mark. I did tow with it last week and it was fine. I did have to get used to the sound of the hitch. And I did have some porpoising but I felt the most stable I every had . First time though with a WD hitch from equalizer but also first time with all new springs and shocks. Truck had 225 miles on all original stuff. I could bottom out the front springs on a dip. Bump stops were gone. So I followed the instructions to a T and loaded up the spring bars and off we went.
I have thought about these from torklift. They get the overload going to use the springs more and supposed to level out your ride. Its supposed to be an alternative to Airbags. I would love your take on it. Also interesting because torklift sells a WD hitch.
Truck Camper Suspension - truck sway - truck sag - reduce camper roll | StableLoad
So what your saying is if you overload the rear axle you are in trouble because then you will be overloading the rating and also taking too much weight off the front and then affecting the contact of the front tires. On the flip side when you load up the frame with the WD hitch you could possible overload the front axle.
On the the F150 harrowing experience what was the problem with the WD hitch? what did it cause?
AJ
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04-02-2017, 10:18 PM
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#25
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Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 230
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1/ So what your saying is if you overload the rear axle you are in trouble because then you will be overloading the rating and also taking too much weight off the front and then affecting the contact of the front tires.
a/ Correct. Never overload any axle. b/ Incorrect. The front may encounter reduced traction, if the rear squats excessively even when not overloaded. The solution is to "stiffen" the rear suspension to "raise" it.
But frankly, I have loaded my trucks to the max rated, and never experienced loss of traction at the front end. That's the purpose of GVWR, RAW, etc,: to ensure the truck is safe to operate under maximum loads. But I did this for very short trips, and drove very slowly. Overloading is another matter: I never overload.
2/ On the flip side when you load up the frame with the WD hitch you could possible overload the front axle.
Correct.
3/ In your case, you are hitching only 500#, which should be well below your RAW. Your F150 has a very soft suspension, front and rear. Front is too soft for braking control under high load, but nigh impossible to modify. For rear end, a quick, low-cost install is the Timbren. Next is an overload spring. Next are air bags. Air bags are great: precise levelling on demand, improved control. But bags are expensive and may wear quickly. Springs rarely wear out.
People think that raising the rear via springs is akin to torquing the rear via a WD hitch. Nope. The torque applies a forwards force vector, which is not good. Springs keep the force at the rear, and control the up/down forces with no forwards vector, exactly as a rear suspension is designed to work. The mass stays in the rear and is not vectored forwards, and thus does not alter the design parameters of the TV.
What is true about a WD is, under perfect conditions, it can reduce some "porpoising", IF your shocks are up to the extra stress. Basically, the WD torque can act to alter the forces at the fulcrum [your rear axle] for light loads, and good HD shocks can absorb this. Most people do not consider replacing their shocks, and the types of shocks needed for the job do not fit onto a stock 1/2T truck. If you experience "porpoise", imho truly you need a heavier, larger truck.
My situation is long to describe and restricted. Suffice, the WD overloaded the front under emergency braking. In court, the defence expert will easily prove the WD will overload the front, and thus your insurance and case may be lost.
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04-02-2017, 10:41 PM
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#26
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 343
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I dont have an F150 i have an excursion. With Superduty B and V code springs on it. Front axle 5200 lbs and rear 7000 lbs.
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04-03-2017, 12:09 AM
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#27
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Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 230
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ajohansson
I dont have an F150 i have an excursion. With Superduty B and V code springs on it. Front axle 5200 lbs and rear 7000 lbs.
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please excuse my error. I cannot find exact numbers for your Excursion. But the diesel engine will load an additional 550# on your front end, which I suspect leaves you with little extra for loading and safety margin. Do not know if overload springs will fit.
The superload springs exemplify my points. I have not used these, but have used overload springs. The video makes valid points: many mods will "harden" your ride, when unloaded. And, the vid shows why keeping mass at the rear ensures driving control.
/1/ True: tandem airbags will not control truck sway too much. This is why I incur the extra cost to install independent bags, to ensure no air can "flow" from left to right to left. Independent solves the sway very effectively. True: air systems can leak, and are much higher maintenance. But driving with air is the best experience.
/2/ Most overload springs are similar, and the challenge is to match the spring to the load: can't be done "on demand". These are my preferred option for the very heavy loads for the 3500 class.
/3/ I had good success with the Timbren product for the F150, but did not try this for the 3500 class. The pros: Timbren is lowest cost and quickest install. Very effective for a 5000# trailer and say 750# hitch weight. The Timbren act only when squat is present.
My approach depends now upon the situation. For lighter loads, the Timbren work for me. For a heavier load and class, an independent air system works best: great ride, convenient, quiet, on demand, no sway, precise level. For the heaviest loads, the overload springs and really stiff shocks work best when loaded, but give a very very hard ride when empty. [so I don't drive empty!].
If you are concerned about TT sway, you can mitigate this by ensuring the centre of mass is well forwards of the TT axles. This will increase your tongue weight, IF you still have sway, consider the Tuson anti sway device, which electronically controls your TT brakes. [I have no affiliation]. Never rear-load any trailer.
best wishes to you.
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04-04-2017, 04:46 PM
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#28
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Moderator Emeritus
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: HillBilly country, Smokey Mtns
Posts: 4,171
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobbin
fact: a WD does not "distribute" weight. so, good luck.
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Nonsense.
A WD hitch removes weight from the rear axle and distributes that weight to the front and trailer axles.
An ideal weight distribution with a properly-adjusted WD hitch would be 20% to 25% of hitch weight distributed to the trailer axles and another 20% to 25% of hitch weight distributed to the front axle. That leaves 50% to 60% of hitch weight on the rear axle of the tow vehicle.
Play with semantics all you please, but that's weight distribution. That's why the trailer hitch industry calls it a weight-distribution hitch. If you don't call that weight distribution, what do you call it?
Example from my rig when first setting up my hitch:
1] Spring bars not tight, so no weight distribution happening:
F = 3040 (front axle)
R = 3880 (rear axle)
T = 3480 (trailer axles)
C = 10,400 (combined)
2] Spring bars tightened
F = 3280
R = 3520
T =3620
C =10,420
3] Difference
F = 240 heavier
R = 360 lighter
T = 140 heavier
C = 20# scale error due to rounding of weights on the 3 scale pads
Notice that was the first shot at adjusting the WD hitch. Too much weight distributed to the front axle, although the weight distributed to the trailer ales was close to perfect. So the next step is to adjust the angle of the coupler to the ball to distribute less weight to the front axle while leaving the weight distributed to the trailer axles alone.
__________________
Grumpy ole man with over 60 years towing experience. Now my heaviest trailer is a 7'x16' 5,000-pound flatbed utility trailer, my tow vehicle is a 2019 F-150 Lariat 3.5L EcoBoost SuperCab with Max Tow (1,904 pounds payload capacity).
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