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Old 12-05-2011, 08:11 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobsnewheart View Post
My wife is an artist who sells her creations at art shows around the U.S. We've been doing this for several years but are considering a new tow vehicle. Currently we have a 2003 Chevy express 3500 work van pulling our 30 foot Palomino Puma Travel Trailer. The van is packed with from 1500-2000 lbs of material and the trailer weighs around 8,000 lbs fully loaded. I fully understand the formula for determining towing capacity but what I'm looking for is the benefit of your experience. We're willing to go with a pickup truck but there are so many of them it gets really confusing. What do you think would be the best pickup for our purposes (please include model, engine and other pertinent information). Our Chevy has been great but I sense that we are at it's tow/haul limits. Thanks everyone...it's good to be a member here.
I'll not add any comments or opinions, just a big welcome to the family!
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Old 12-05-2011, 11:50 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TXiceman View Post
So his 8000# trailer will have a tongue weight of 960# plus his 2000# cargo load for a total cargo weight of up to 2960#. My F350 crew cab dual can only carry about 3000 to 3200# as cargo capacity.

In short, there are lots of dealers and sales people that DO NOT understand how to interpret tow ratings and data.

Ken
We really should stop with all the assumptions and get to the facts:
Your F-350 ( and mine) dually/diesel is GVWR 12,400 5,700 payload capacity not 3000# -3,200 lbs capacity as you state.

The F-250 GVWR is 10,000 3,000 payload capacity.

The F-250 and F-350 SRD is 23,000 GCWR
The F-350 DRD is 23,500 GCWR only 500# more.

F-250 Max. Tongue Weight 1,250# - well under his 960#
F-350 DRD Max. Tongue Weight 1,500#

So as I said in my earlier post the F-250 should do fine (at the top end but not over the specs. and that is IF he loads a ton into the back which I doubt he does) And here is where I base my information from:

http://www.fordf150.net/specs/05sd_specs.pdf

You are right, there are a lot of people who don't know they don't know...
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Old 12-06-2011, 06:41 AM   #17
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Which year are you guys discussing for weights? Nothing matches up with my 2011 book or my door post (13300).
Just curious. (I use the phone app and can notsignatures see signatures.) TY
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Old 12-07-2011, 02:24 AM   #18
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Wow...lots of good info, thanks much guys. Here's what I've decided based on what I've heard here. I really like the Chevy Express and y'all have pretty much convinced me that it is probably up to the job. To be comfortable, though, I'm going to opt for the big 15 passenger Chevy Diesel (without most of the seats) when I go for the new Van after the first of the year. From what you've said and from everything I've read it seems as though the Chevy monster will get the job done..thanks again guys, I read every word a couple of times.
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Old 12-07-2011, 09:02 AM   #19
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To be comfortable, though, I'm going to opt for the big 15 passenger Chevy Diesel (without most of the seats) when I go for the new Van after the first of the year. From what you've said and from everything I've read it seems as though the Chevy monster will get the job done.
The Chevy Express 3500 diesel long wheelbase passenger van has less cargo and towing capacity than the Ford E-350 with V-10 gasser, but it should have barely enough for your needs.

Max payload is 3270 pounds. If you have 2,000 pounds cargo plus 1000 pounds hitch weight, that doesn't leave you any fudge factor for passengers and other stuff in the van. So maybe try to keep the cargo weight closer to 1,500 pounds and you should not be overloaded over the GVWR of the tow vehicle.

9,300 max tow rating will be less than max because of your cargo weight, but it should still be able to tow an 8,000 pound RV with no problem.

Big advantage of the Chevy over the Ford - assuming you prefer a diesel over a gas-gulping V-10 gasser, is the Chevy has the optional diesel engine and Ford does not. That heavy diesel engine is the main reason the cargo capacity is less than the Ford's.

I checked the Freightliner and Mercedes-Benz Sprinter vans, too. (Dodge no longer sells a Sprinter.) In 4-passenger Sprinter Crew guise) they have 3187 pounds payload, or about the same as the Chevy diesel. In cargo van guise, they have up to 5,350 payload capacity, which is plenty for your needs. But the max tow rating of 7,500 pounds is not high enough for your needs. So those Sprinters are made for hauling, not towing. Their Mercedes-Benz engine is smaller and less powerful than the Chevy diesel.
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Old 12-07-2011, 02:47 PM   #20
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Another factor to consider when contemplating a long, extended van is sway. That is because of the distance from the rear axle to trailer hitch. This sway can be reduced/eliminated by two methods, assuming the van already has Load Range E tires; one is rear dual wheel adapters, the other is a top-of-the-line trailer hitch such as 3P (ProPride), or Hensley.
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Old 12-07-2011, 07:34 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Billieg View Post
We really should stop with all the assumptions and get to the facts:
Your F-350 ( and mine) dually/diesel is GVWR 12,400 5,700 payload capacity not 3000# -3,200 lbs capacity as you state.

The F-250 GVWR is 10,000 3,000 payload capacity.

The F-250 and F-350 SRD is 23,000 GCWR
The F-350 DRD is 23,500 GCWR only 500# more.

F-250 Max. Tongue Weight 1,250# - well under his 960#
F-350 DRD Max. Tongue Weight 1,500#

So as I said in my earlier post the F-250 should do fine (at the top end but not over the specs. and that is IF he loads a ton into the back which I doubt he does) And here is where I base my information from:

http://www.fordf150.net/specs/05sd_specs.pdf

You are right, there are a lot of people who don't know they don't know...
Billeig, you are mixing apples and oranges and getting fruit salad. You need to review Tom Lenger's site for a complete understanding of the ratings and weights. If you need me to write up a formal explanation, my consulting rate is $300.00 per hour with a 4 hour minimum.

Ken
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Old 12-07-2011, 11:40 PM   #22
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Billeig, you are mixing apples and oranges and getting fruit salad. You need to review Tom Lenger's site for a complete understanding of the ratings and weights. If you need me to write up a formal explanation, my consulting rate is $300.00 per hour with a 4 hour minimum.

Ken
Not when you tell me our F-350 dually's have a payload of only 3000 lbs....
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Old 12-08-2011, 07:49 AM   #23
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Not when you tell me our F-350 dually's have a payload of only 3000 lbs....
The gross payload is over 4,000 pounds, but the net payload available for hitch weight can easily be "only 3,000 pounds".

2012 F-350 DRW CrewCab 4x4 has a GVWR of 13,300 pounds. The CAT scale doesn't lie. Load that dually with the things most serious RVers haul in the tow vehicle - toolbox full of tools and extra fluids and a hydraulic jack, add a Rhino or Line-X bedliner along with spouse and a couple of rug rats, fill up with diesel, be sure the 5er hitch is installed, throw the big heavy floor jack into the bed for use when you have a flat on the trailer, then weigh the rig. It's easy to have that tow vehicle weigh 10,300 pounds on the CAT scale before you tie onto the trailer. That leaves 3,000 pounds of net payload available for hitch weight.

Ford's 2012 RV and Trailer Towing guide says that truck has a maximum cargo weight rating of 4,300 pounds. Don't skip over that word "MAXIMUM". Ford's number assumes there is absolutely nothing in the truck but a skinny driver. No passengers, no toolbox full of tools, no cooler full of cool, XL trim with no options such as a bedliner or power windows, and not even a 5er hitch. Those items can easily weigh 1,300 pounds.

When my old F-250 was brand new, the scale ticket said it weighed 6,920 with nothing in it except a full tank of diesel, not even a driver or toolbox. Subtract Ford's tow rating of 13,300 from the 20,000 GCWR and Ford thought my truck including a 150-pound driver weighed only 6,700 pounds. When it was ready to tie onto my 5er, with me and Darling Wife inside, it weighed 8,000 pounds. 1,080 pounds more than the empty weight and 1,300 more than Ford's published number. Throw a couple of teenagers in the back seat and there's your more than 1,300 pounds of weight to subtract from the GVWR to determine how much unused payload capacity you have left for hitch weight without being overloaded.
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Old 12-08-2011, 07:56 PM   #24
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It is amazing when people read the info that they want to read. Read the MAXIMUM and read no farther.

My F350 DRW has a GVWR or 11,500# per the sticker on the door jamb. It weighs about 8,200# loaded for travel, so the math is pretty simple...
11,500 - 8,200 = 3300#

Never mind Fords advertising literature...this is real world numbers.

Ken
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Old 12-08-2011, 08:04 PM   #25
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It is amazing when people read the info that they want to read. Read the MAXIMUM and read no farther.

My F350 DRW has a GVWR or 11,500# per the sticker on the door jamb. It weighs about 8,200# loaded for travel, so the math is pretty simple...
11,500 - 8,200 = 3300#

Never mind Fords advertising literature...this is real world numbers.

Ken
I don't think he's going to buy your truck fully loaded...

If he buys a 2007 F-250 fully loaded should be a lot less than 8,200#
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Old 12-08-2011, 08:18 PM   #26
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I am tired of this. My truck is an XLT, 2 wheel drive and not "loaded". I do have a tool box and added a cap since we do not pull a 5er. The cap was about 200#.

Adios and good luck folks.

Ken
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Old 12-08-2011, 08:36 PM   #27
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Don't ever pull a trailer with a 1 ton E-350 ford EXTENDED van. On wet surface you can't control it. I don't care who has one and likes it. It is a death trap. PERIOD. I had one ton extended work vans and if you put anything in the back and rear of the back axle it works like a fulcrum. if you make a turn the rear end swings the opposite way. Ford should have crushed everyone they ever made. Why do you think those 15 passenger church vans have all the accidents?
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Old 12-08-2011, 11:16 PM   #28
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It is amazing when people read the info that they want to read. Read the MAXIMUM and read no farther.

My F350 DRW has a GVWR or 11,500# per the sticker on the door jamb. It weighs about 8,200# loaded for travel, so the math is pretty simple...
11,500 - 8,200 = 3300#

Never mind Fords advertising literature...this is real world numbers.

Ken

Quote:
Originally Posted by TXiceman View Post
I am tired of this. My truck is an XLT, 2 wheel drive "and not "loaded. I do have a tool box and added a cap since we do not pull a 5er. The cap was about 200#.

Adios and good luck folks.

Ken
Geezz Ken, is it "Loaded or not "Loaded"? First you said it has a load capacity of 3000 - 3200# now you are saying 3,300#. Which is it and what does it matter to the org. poster that is looking at a F-250?

Then you say you can't believe Fords advertising literature and then say "My F350 DRW has a GVWR or 11,500# per the sticker on the door jamb" Which is it? What do you believe?

MY F-350 has a GVWR of 13,000 and is 8,250 fully loaded, fueled, 5th wheel hitch, with my butt in the seat ready to go. So I guess we are talking about 2 different trucks here.

In fact we were talking about another very different truck the F-250 and whether it would pull a 30' 8,000 TT with 1,500# to 2,000# in the bed safely... For the OP's sake...

I don't wish to upset you but I'm real tired of people making "assumptions" or just throwing out incorrect information to people who really need help based on their own vehicle and not the one we are talking about. If I'm guilty of that then I need to know. If you read my posts I always state the facts not "I think", "I feel", "it's about" or "I heard" to make my post.

I have a degree in mathematics and I'm not stupid in that area. I am a safety freak and research everything I don't understand. Sometimes being 60 I tend to overlook things but the last thing I want to do is give someone bad information based on my option or assumptions and not facts.

So my friend I guess we can agree to disagree but that doesn't help the org. OP...
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