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Old 07-28-2012, 04:56 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Franka548
Rusty,
It seems that most of the people that post on these weight rating posts are divided into two general groups. Those that follow the weight ratings are usually the dually guys, although that is not always the case, there are a few srw guys in there also, and those that swear that a dually is overkill, and it is not needed. I would guess that most of those that are dead set against a dually have never pulled with one. Just my obsevation.
Frank
Frank,

In general i would concur, i am an SRW guy but not against a dually by any means. My issue arises with those that say a dually is absolutely required for something that isnt needed. For my rig, sure i would love a dually but as i had bought the truck new (2012) before buying my rig i did my homework and my weight slips check out fine. But even then you will find those that will say im over weight by the sheer principal that im 40' or 14k lbs loaded. With that i take exception as im just pointing out, even though i am fine, a "dually is required" for my load by their standards. As i said, if it wasnt a brand new truck i would have bought a dually for this rig, but economically its not wise as i purchased it 8 months ago and would take a huge hit on it. As i am within weight limits (which i do have the slips to prove it) im not really in a rush to go buy a new truck again. I by no means tell or advise anyone to go beyond any weight labels or guides for their truck but will advise them if as needed. If it requires a dually great, of its close, might be a good option. But i for one with my rig have 2600lbs pin weight which is fine for my SRW. An SRW is not practical or good for every load to tow......but with that said dually is a preference for some loads but not a requirement for all rigs. If you are sizing your truck with a specific rig in mind, never hurt to go one step up on truck for the added capacity. Those who already have their truck should get a rig within their specs. All i ask is for people to instead just flat out and say dually for just about every answer regarding tow vehicle, help the people by teaching them the weights and manufacturer recommendations. Then some will see an SRW may be suitable for their requirements but a dually might be a preference, and they can make THEIR decision from there. I have seen too many statements....one to the effect on this forum that that stated 14k lbs would require an F450 or higher. That is ludicrous! Plenty of room to spare but definitely not required. Dually owners here in general seem to think all those who tow with SRW are over loaded, uneducated in towing without any regard to being "safe". Statements like that tell me the person making them is not truly educated in the proper understandings of towing and jump to the biggest truck possible and pretend they know it all. Lets teach those who need to know rather than tell them what the need. I can give you the answer to math equations all day bit unless you learned the process of getting to the answer, all you have is an opinion of what is the right answer with no way to verify or check or know its accurate. We seem to lean towards don't listen to anything the salesman says, yet here we are just telling people an answer the same way a salesman would. They haven't learned anything other than a bunch of opinions, where if they were explained the numbers and all, it would be fact rather than opinion.
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Old 07-28-2012, 05:47 PM   #44
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beausdog,
I agree with you that the new pickups from all three manufacturers do have higher tow and gvw ratings and they may be able to handle some of the higher weights. If you notice any of my posts that I tell the people to look at the door sticker, then load everything like they would to travel and take a trip to the scales. that way one knows for sure what weights they have. My truck is right at its gvw with a 16k 5er, and the 5er isn't at its gvw, so if I am at my limit, there is no way that a swr 3/4 ton truck is within its specs. But I don't say they have to have a dually unless they are at a 16k or higher, then I know from experience that a dually is required.
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Old 07-28-2012, 05:59 PM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beausdog View Post
Dually owners here in general seem to think all those who tow with SRW are over loaded, uneducated in towing without any regard to being "safe".
I for one take exception to that statement. The numbers tell the tale. If one is within all manufacturer's weight specifications, then as far as I'm concerned, they are not overloaded beyond the capabilities the manufacturer has established for that particular tow vehicle.

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Old 07-28-2012, 06:13 PM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RustyJC

I for one take exception to that statement. The numbers tell the tale. If one is within all manufacturer's weight specifications, then as far as I'm concerned, they are not overloaded beyond the capabilities the manufacturer has established for that particular tow vehicle.

Rusty
I wasn't referring to you, but would you like me to post quite a few examples??
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Old 07-28-2012, 06:17 PM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Franka548
beausdog,
I agree with you that the new pickups from all three manufacturers do have higher tow and gvw ratings and they may be able to handle some of the higher weights. If you notice any of my posts that I tell the people to look at the door sticker, then load everything like they would to travel and take a trip to the scales. that way one knows for sure what weights they have. My truck is right at its gvw with a 16k 5er, and the 5er isn't at its gvw, so if I am at my limit, there is no way that a swr 3/4 ton truck is within its specs. But I don't say they have to have a dually unless they are at a 16k or higher, then I know from experience that a dually is required.
Frank
I concur, and im also even including 1 ton srw. But ya, i agree as most i have ever seen is 15700 on an srw and thats with just driver and fuel...so obviously less than that. There was one person in another thread who stated any 5er over 40 foot requires a MDT or at least a 1 ton dually. Those are the statements im referencing.
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Old 07-28-2012, 06:23 PM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beausdog View Post
Dually owners here in general seem to think......
Well, that would certainly seem to include me. You're painting with an awfully broad brush.

Insofar as educational tools are concerned, please reference the Sticky thread at the top of this forum. A selection of calculators are there for anyone who might care to use them.

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Old 07-28-2012, 06:31 PM   #49
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I saw that thread and bit my tongue, the length really doen't matter as much as the weight, and on a 5er, the pin weight. my 5er is only 30' so by that it should be towed with a 3/4 ton, but that isn't going to happen, because its gvw is 16,400# . also if you noticed in my original post that I did incude some swr in the statement. It sounds like we are on the same page, including Rusty, and a few others on here also, just want to educate people in the safe way to tow within the manufacturers specs.
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Old 07-28-2012, 06:36 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RustyJC View Post
Well, that would certainly seem to include me. You're painting with an awfully broad brush.

Insofar as educational tools are concerned, please reference the Sticky thread at the top of this forum. A selection of calculators are there for anyone who might care to use them.

Rusty

Ok, as it may be a broad brush, but so is the overwhelming broad brush of painting the picture that SRW tow vehicles of 5er's are overweight. I will include some examples of what I am referring to.

The thread was about this:

I am considering getting a 40 ft. trailer and want some input on what type and size of truck I need for this size trailer. I want to get the right truck but am hoping I don't need to buy a dually. Thanks for any input you can give me

Some Example Responses:

#1-
A 40' 5er will be a minimum of an F350/3500 dually that is properly equipped and maybe an F450/4500. Big trailers need BIB trucks.

You may see folks pulling big 5er with single rear wheel trucks and they do not have a clue how badly they are over loaded.

#2-
F450/4500 dully Truck is a must for safety for a 40' FW regardless of the
Manufacture.

#3-
I would be looking at a MDT (Med Duty Truck) or HDT (Heavy Duty Truck). I would suggest going to the Escapees MDT and HDT forum and researching those tow vehicles. Escapees HDT website will be very helpful and have alot of info regarding towing heavy 5er's. If your up to the HDT you will have alot more comfort and piece of mind towing a heavy 5er with a converted HDT or even a MDT.

#4-
Generally speaking, a 40' FW has got to be over 12k lbs or so, empty. Once you fill it up, you're in the 350/3500 dually range and definitely not SRW. Some of the super heavy FWs, such as Mobile Suites, Teton, and NuWa, would probably need an MDT.

#5-
Beausdog...if you are within weights pulling a 42' 5th wheel with a SRW truck...you are one of the very few.



All I am saying is, if people are going to be giving advice, give accurate or knowledgeable advice. And then, when I speak up, i get responses like this.....

If you blow a rear tire hauling a 5er around a curve with srw I hope I'm not there to have to avoid you.
I logged 1.5 million mi + in the tow recovery business


As you can tell by the example original post, it is kind of vague on not listing any weights listed. That needs to be ascertained from the person, not just those answers that are listed. Bottom line im saying is, it goes by weight, and not length. If you are within specs of the TV and Rig than its good, if you are not, you need a bigger truck, if its close, may want to upgrade, that all Im saying.
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Old 07-28-2012, 06:41 PM   #51
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Rusty,

By this response to someone:

#4-
Generally speaking, a 40' FW has got to be over 12k lbs or so, empty. Once you fill it up, you're in the 350/3500 dually range and definitely not SRW. Some of the super heavy FWs, such as Mobile Suites, Teton, and NuWa, would probably need an MDT.

You by some are considered having too small of a truck for your combination in your sig block. I for one know you most likely are within specs and fine. But this line of thinking is what im speaking of.
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Old 07-28-2012, 06:45 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Franka548 View Post
I saw that thread and bit my tongue, the length really doen't matter as much as the weight, and on a 5er, the pin weight. my 5er is only 30' so by that it should be towed with a 3/4 ton, but that isn't going to happen, because its gvw is 16,400# . also if you noticed in my original post that I did incude some swr in the statement. It sounds like we are on the same page, including Rusty, and a few others on here also, just want to educate people in the safe way to tow within the manufacturers specs.
Frank
Yes Frank I did see the SRW thing. Its all good, I am not trying to single anyone out or offend anyone, Im just trying to make some people see things from outside of the box. Yes it does appear you, myself and rusty are on the same page. It just makes me when I see some stuff like the examples I put up. As you saw the thread and said you had to bite your tongue. That is only one of them, There are others here too.
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Old 07-28-2012, 06:51 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beausdog View Post
Rusty,

By this response to someone:

#4-
Generally speaking, a 40' FW has got to be over 12k lbs or so, empty. Once you fill it up, you're in the 350/3500 dually range and definitely not SRW. Some of the super heavy FWs, such as Mobile Suites, Teton, and NuWa, would probably need an MDT.

You by some are considered having too small of a truck for your combination in your sig block. I for one know you most likely are within specs and fine. But this line of thinking is what im speaking of.
I don't know how many times I have to say it. As far as I'm concerned, if one is within the manufacturer's weight ratings, they're not overloaded. Unlike later Mobile Suites, mine has a 16K GVWR, so it's certainly within the capabilities of a modern, correctly equipped 1 ton dually. That's why I ordered my truck specifically equipped to tow this 5th wheel.

So why the need to beat up on me?

Rusty
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Old 07-28-2012, 06:56 PM   #54
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I don't know how many times I have to say it. As far as I'm concerned, if one is within the manufacturer's weight ratings, they're not overloaded. Unlike later Mobile Suites, mine has a 16K GVWR, so it's certainly within the capabilities of a modern, correctly equipped 1 ton dually. That's why I ordered my truck specifically equipped to tow this 5th wheel.

So why the need to beat up on me?

Rusty

And I am saying I agree with you, Im just showing you what has caused me to make the generalized statement about dually owners on this site. Thats all I am showing you, not trying to beat up on you. I think we both see eye to eye with this. But since you took exception to the comment, Im just displaying what has got me to the point of saying what I said.
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Old 07-28-2012, 07:03 PM   #55
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Then I would suggest that in the future you might want to say, "It seems to be the opinion of a number of dually owners....." instead of "Dually owners here in general seem to think......"

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Old 07-28-2012, 07:04 PM   #56
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Originally Posted by RustyJC
Then I would suggest that in the future you might want to say, "It seems to be the opinion of a number of dually owners....." instead of "Dually owners here in general seem to think......"

Rusty
Ok....i will rephrase...


It appears a vast number of dually owners on this site believe.....insert original post
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