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Old 07-28-2012, 07:18 PM   #57
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I am with Rusty on the weight ratings. As long as you are within the ratings published by the manufacturer (GVWR, GCWR and Axle GAWR) and I do not mean "tow ratings", go with the truck that will work for you, SRW or DRW.

I have seen time and time on the road, a 3/4 ton SRW truck that are overloaded and squatting severely. Also, knowing the weight range of the trailer in tow, I know they are over loaded per the manufacturers ratings for pin weight.

We got a new truck as I knew, my 2002 DRW F350 was over loaded with the Cameo (16,050# GVWR). The new truck will handle the load from the trailer with in manufacturers rating.

Read the material and learn how to do the weight calculations, it is not rocket science. Then decide if you want to be over loaded or not.



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Old 07-28-2012, 08:51 PM   #58
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If you read the statute's, these can not be enforced on a private vehicle as they fall under commercial vehicle enforcement law.

Example 1: Maryland requires a non commercial class license for many rigs above 10k #s but if you are not a resident, you can not be cited for this infraction.

Example 2: Would you receive a ticket for failing to wear a helmet on a motorcycle if you were driving a car?? No you would not, as that statute is provided for motorcycles and not cars.

Same goes for commercial vehicles. If you have a commercial truck or DOT numbers, those statutes for state and federal will apply to you. If not, then those specific statutes can not be applied.

This is not releasing liability in any means. If you a grossly negligent than there are other charges than can be pursued. But asking commercial vehicle enforcement laws about private vehicles is like asking them to tell you elements of a domestic violence arrest. They are experts in what they do but have limited knowledge on private vehicle laws as their training emphasizes commercial vehicles. As such, most states, they cant even stip you. And in those states they can stop you, most have to wait for a regular trooper before proceeding as they dont have the authority. Some states CVE are not in any relation to the troopers but rather a state DOT enforcement mechanism with limited powers.
A private use vehicle is not exempt from any type of LEO as they all enforce the same weight codes.
Aparantly you didn't read what the commander from CA says. The satutes he mentions are for every vehicle on the road and yes private use vehicles come under the same axle/tire load restrictions as the commercial side.

There are no seperate Regs for commercial or non commercial vehicles period other than registration/licensing requirements. That is typical RV myth.


A states statute regarding weighing of any vehicle says ;

"A. Any officer of the Department of Public Safety, the Corporation Commission, any sheriff, or any salaried deputy sheriff is authorized to stop any vehicle upon any road or highway in order to weigh such vehicle by means of portable or stationary scales, or cause the same to be weighed by any official weigher, or upon any privately owned scales and may require that such vehicles be driven to the nearest or most convenient available scales for the purpose of weighing. Any officer weighing a vehicle pursuant to this section by means of portable scales shall allow the driver of the vehicle to move the vehicle to the most level weighing area available within two (2) miles of the scales.
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Old 07-28-2012, 09:59 PM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JIMNLIN
A private use vehicle is not exempt from any type of LEO as they all enforce the same weight codes.
Aparantly you didn't read what the commander from CA says. The satutes he mentions are for every vehicle on the road and yes private use vehicles come under the same axle/tire load restrictions as the commercial side.

There are no seperate Regs for commercial or non commercial vehicles period other than registration/licensing requirements. That is typical RV myth.

A states statute regarding weighing of any vehicle says ;

"A. Any officer of the Department of Public Safety, the Corporation Commission, any sheriff, or any salaried deputy sheriff is authorized to stop any vehicle upon any road or highway in order to weigh such vehicle by means of portable or stationary scales, or cause the same to be weighed by any official weigher, or upon any privately owned scales and may require that such vehicles be driven to the nearest or most convenient available scales for the purpose of weighing. Any officer weighing a vehicle pursuant to this section by means of portable scales shall allow the driver of the vehicle to move the vehicle to the most level weighing area available within two (2) miles of the scales.
That would be incorrect, a LEO is a LEO, DOT has commercial vehicle enforcement, two different entities, however, i did not say you could not be cited, what i did say was if the state has it, it is a different statute. And if a LEO stops you on the basis of a commercial vehicle code, which by definition is a civil infraction and not a criminal offense, then it opens the agency up to a possible 4th amendment violation
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Old 07-28-2012, 10:12 PM   #60
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Being over weight has nothing to do with commercial or private vehicles. If you are overweight and do not have a permit to be over weight then it does not matter if a town cop or a US marshal stops you. You are breaking the law and therefor subject to penalty and or fines for breaking that law. Although it is unlikely for a private vehicle to be stopped solely for being over weight. Unless you are pulling a 30 something foot camper with a little Toyota or something to that affect. Former LEO and son is current DPS police officer in LA.
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Old 07-28-2012, 11:45 PM   #61
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We can debate all day and night, bottom line is, whoever has the better attorney will win....thats the bottom line.
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Old 07-29-2012, 05:08 PM   #62
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That would be incorrect, a LEO is a LEO, DOT has commercial vehicle enforcement, two different entities, however, i did not say you could not be cited, what i did say was if the state has it, it is a different statute. And if a LEO stops you on the basis of a commercial vehicle code, which by definition is a civil infraction and not a criminal offense, then it opens the agency up to a possible 4th amendment violation
There are no different statutes for commercial/non commercial axle/tire weight violations. States have but one set of regulations regarding axle/tire weight violations.

The state code I posted says who has the authority is correct. Other states have similiar written codes.

I sure wouldn't tell any type of leo he can't enforce his state motor vehicle statutes and threaten him with the 4th amendment unless you have lots on money.
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Old 07-29-2012, 05:30 PM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JIMNLIN
There are no different statutes for commercial/non commercial axle/tire weight violations. States have but one set of regulations regarding axle/tire weight violations.

The state code I posted says who has the authority is correct. Other states have similiar written codes.

I sure wouldn't tell any type of leo he can't enforce his state motor vehicle statutes and threaten him with the 4th amendment unless you have lots on money.
I beg to differ, as if you read the code, it states its CMV and defines it, just like every state has hack statutes and codes specifically for hire taxis.....
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Old 07-29-2012, 06:04 PM   #64
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This will be my last post on this subject as you will believe what you want. However all states enforce CMV based on the guidelines of CFR 49 U.S.C. 113. Which authority is granted by congress for interstate commerce. The states then incorporate their CMV code based on this as every state otherwise would have different standards and we all know trucks arent plated in every state they go to. CFR 49 U.S.C. 113 lays out what vehicles are subject to it and what ones are not. That is the guideline. Almost, if not every states statutes for CMV enforcement refer to this US Code of Federal Regulation to detail the description of a commercial vwhicle.Certain states may require a special license for certain RV's however, that is regulated under intrastate code if the rig is used for commerce and not commercial vehicle codes. So as each state is different, yes some do have statutes, but more often than not, it would be cited under negligent or reckless operation of a motor vehicle depending on the circumstances. Now as far as the LEO part, i know Cali, Fl and many others use the state troopers and yes they are LEOs, buy many states also use what is called a special police officer or special deputy who work for DOT as a limited law enforcement agency, no different than a certified special police officer works for a university who is authorized by the state to make arrests and cites based on state and federal law while in the performance of their duties (some department of defense civilian police officers fall within this category as well). But outside of their specific duties, they do not have authority. Many states went to this option as a money saver but are transitioning back to state troopers. And no you dont argue with them, let them do their thing.....you can have plenty of fun going to court to argue. More than likely if they weigh you its gonna be either painfully obvious that you are overweight or involved in a crash. With the later, its part of an investigation, if its the first it needs to be based on probable cause just like a DUI, if you refuse to do SFSTs or give a breath sample, they need probable cause to cite which is more than an opinion. There has been some cases not involving RVs but other issues with police mandating driver actions to gather evidence of a violation which could be argued in the RV world when they order you to drive up on scales thus causing a self incrimination violation under fifth amendment. Hence why before they search (no case law on weights of private cars being a search but one could argue they would need to enter your vehicle to get the GVWR and capacity off the sticker) personal property the police are required per the ninth circuit court of appeals to read miranda rights and inform you that you can refuse and that if you refuse they would have to apply for a warrant. Do as you wish but personal rights under the constitution are just that a right, sometime they maybe limited for cause but they are almost always an absolute.
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Old 07-29-2012, 06:05 PM   #65
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Also see CFR 49 U.S.C. 311 for standards
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Old 07-29-2012, 10:01 PM   #66
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I beg to differ, as if you read the code, it states its CMV and defines it, just like every state has hack statutes and codes specifically for hire taxis.....
I read the code and legally lived by it for over 11 years.
The code does not state its a CMV code anywhere nor does it define CMV. This code is from oklahoma chapter 47 motor vehicle regs and covers "weighing of vehicles" by quote:....
." Any officer of the Department of Public Safety, the Corporation Commission, any sheriff, or any salaried deputy sheriff is authorized to stop any vehicle upon any road or highway in order to weigh such vehicle by means of portable or stationary scales,....... .

I think your confused with the email I posted from a California CVS commander to a CA RV owner asking about GVWR and GCWR.
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Old 07-29-2012, 11:29 PM   #67
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I read the code and legally lived by it for over 11 years.
The code does not state its a CMV code anywhere nor does it define CMV. This code is from oklahoma chapter 47 motor vehicle regs and covers "weighing of vehicles" by quote:....
." Any officer of the Department of Public Safety, the Corporation Commission, any sheriff, or any salaried deputy sheriff is authorized to stop any vehicle upon any road or highway in order to weigh such vehicle by means of portable or stationary scales,....... .

I think your confused with the email I posted from a California CVS commander to a CA RV owner asking about GVWR and GCWR.

For my initial response to this, I looked up your code in Chapter 47 and will put a bit more detail later, but if you are going to cite a code, please put the number, but on any note I found it, and please use the full text, not just the part that makes it appear you know...... here is the full text....

§47-14-111. Weighing vehicles - Compelling unloading - Certificates - Bills of sale - Proof of ownership - Impounding.
A. Any officer of the Department of Public Safety, the Corporation Commission, any sheriff, or any salaried deputy sheriff is authorized to stop any vehicle upon any road or highway in order to weigh such vehicle by means of portable or stationary scales, or cause the same to be weighed by any official weigher, or upon any privately owned scales and may require that such vehicles be driven to the nearest or most convenient available scales for the purpose of weighing. In the event that any axle weight or the gross weight of any such vehicle be found to exceed the maximum weight authorized by law, or by permit issued therefor, the officer may require, in the case of separable loads, the driver, operator or owner thereof to unload at the site such portion of the load as may be necessary to decrease the weight of such vehicle to the maximum weight authorized by law. Provided, however, that if such load consists of livestock, perishable merchandise, or merchandise that may be destroyed by the weather, then the driver shall be permitted to proceed to the nearest practical unloading point in the direction of destination before discharging such excess cargo. All material so unloaded shall be cared for by the owner or operator of such vehicle at the risk of such owner or operator.
B. The operator of any truck or other vehicle transporting farm products for hire or other merchandise for hire shall have in his or her possession a certificate carrying the following information: name of the operator; driver license number; vehicle registration number; Corporation Commission permit number; and statement of owner authorizing transportation of the products by above named operator. For the purposes of this section “certificate” includes electronic manifests and other similar documents that include all of the information required pursuant to this section.
Should the vehicle be loaded with livestock, the certificate shall include the number of animals, and should the livestock be the property of more than one person, a certificate signed by each owner carrying the above information including the number of animals owned by each owner shall be carried by the operator. Should the operator be the owner of the merchandise or livestock, the merchandise or livestock having just been purchased, the operator shall have in his or her possession a bill of sale for such merchandise or livestock. Should the operator be the owner of livestock or other farm products produced by the operator, the operator shall be required to show satisfactory identification and ownership of the vehicle. Any officer as outlined in this chapter shall have the authority to stop any vehicle loaded with livestock, merchandise or other farm products and investigate as to the ownership of the merchandise, livestock or other farm products. Should the operator of any vehicle be unable to establish to the satisfaction of the officer the ownership of the merchandise, livestock or other products, or shall not have the certificate as specified in this section for the transportation of such merchandise, livestock or other farm products, the merchandise, livestock or other farm products and the vehicle in which they are being transported shall be impounded by the officer and any expense as to the care of any livestock shall be the responsibility of the owner or operator of the vehicle, and any loss or damage of the merchandise, livestock or other farm products shall be the responsibility of the operator or owner, or both.
The provisions of this subsection shall not apply to a person who is transporting horses or livestock; provided, the person shall not have been hired to transport the horses or livestock.


be back in a bit with a detailed response.....
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Old 07-30-2012, 12:29 AM   #68
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Jimlin,

The following are the listed Oklahoma statutes for towing and overweight infractions as listed in the Oklahoma Motor Vehicle Violation Codes Book. I will detail them down in a minute...

Overloading Motorcycle / Vehicle With Passengers / Cargo 11-1103; 11-1104 (a)

Towing Trailer / Vehicle Improperly 12-405 F; 14-106; 1133 I

Overweight Violation 14-101 A, C; 14-118 G

Overweight Violation (With or Without Permits) 14-109A, B

To start with your comment that there are no definitions, they are listed in §47‑1‑101 and stated in §47-1-107.4 (A)(1)(b) which states: A Class D motor vehicle is any motor vehicle or combination of vehicles which: 1. Regardless of weight: b. is designed and used solely as a recreational vehicle.

Ok to break down the citable offense statutes listed above:

§47-11-1103. Motorcycles, motor-driven cycles, motorized bicycles, or electric-assisted bicycle - Restrictions on transporting other persons and on operation. -Obviously doesnt apply to this discussion.

§47‑11‑1104. Obstruction to driver's view or control ‑ Overloading school bus.

§47-12-405. Tires and wheels - Peripheral equipment - Unsafe operating condition.
F. A person shall not operate any vehicle when one or more of the tires in use on that vehicle is in unsafe operating condition or has a tread depth less than two-thirty-seconds (2/32) inch measured in any two adjacent tread grooves at three equally spaced intervals around the circumference of the tire; provided, such measurements shall not be made at the location of any tread wear indicator, tie bar, hump, or fillet. As used in this subsection, an unsafe tire includes, but is not limited to, any tire:

§47‑14‑106. Trailers and towed vehicles.
Every trailer, or semitrailer, shall be equipped with a coupling device which shall be so designed and constructed that the trailer, or semitrailer will follow substantially in the path of the vehicle drawing it without whipping or swerving from side to side. In addition, every such trailer or semitrailer except a semitrailer drawn by a truck‑tractor type designed to draw or support the front end of a semitrailer, shall be coupled with stay chains or cables to the vehicle by which it is being drawn which chains or cable shall be of sufficient size and strength to prevent parting from the drawing vehicle should the regular coupling device break or become otherwise disengaged.

§47-1133. Registration of commercial vehicles.

§47-14-101. Scope and effect of chapter – Issuance of annual overweight permits - Movement of certain vehicles at nighttime and on holidays.
A. It is a misdemeanor for any person to drive or move or for the owner to cause or knowingly permit to be driven or moved on any highway any vehicle or vehicles of a size or weight exceeding the limitations stated in this chapter or otherwise in violation of this chapter, and the maximum size and weight of vehicles herein specified shall be lawful throughout this state and local authorities shall have no power or authority to alter said limitations except as express authority may be granted in this chapter.

C. All size, weight and load provisions covered by this chapter shall be subject to the limitations imposed by Title 23, United States Code, Section 127, and such other rules and regulations developed herein. Provided further that any size and weight provision authorized by the United States Congress for use on the National System of Interstate and Defense Highways, including but not limited to height, axle weight, gross weight, combinations of vehicles or load thereon shall be authorized for immediate use on such segments of the National System of Interstate and Defense Highways and any other highways or portions thereof as designated by the Transportation Commission or their duly authorized representative.

§47-14-118. Motor carriers - Permits - Oklahoma Load Limit Map - Saddlemounts - Exemptions and restrictions - Driveaway permits.

§47-14-109. Single-axle load limit - Gross weight of vehicle and load - Exceptions - Additional fees - "Utility vehicle" defined.
A. On any road or highway:
1. No single axle weight shall exceed twenty thousand (20,000) pounds; and
2. The total gross weight in pounds imposed thereon by a vehicle or combination of vehicles shall not exceed the value given in the following table corresponding to the distance in feet between the extreme axles of the group measured longitudinally to the nearest foot.


Most of these infractions in Subsection 14 are assigned for motor carrier/commercial vehicles class a/b/c and not a class D. If you look at the chart located in 14-109 they relate to 34k lbs for tandem axles which are all commercial vehicle weights similar to Title 23, USC 127. The only mention of GVWR/GCWR is in descriptions in the beginning as its cited in the wrecker section and vehicle brake performance table.

The terms Motor Carrier, Commercial Vehicle, and the Corporate Commission all relate to Commercial Vehicles.

Once again, Im not saying you wouldn't be stopped, but IMHO I still don't believe you would be cited under any of these codes but rather a negligent operation or reckless operation. Just my .02 take it or leave it!
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Old 07-30-2012, 05:21 PM   #69
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Your misquoting what I said about definitions in my orig 14-1111 post about who can stop a vehicle
You said ;
quote; " I beg to differ, as if you read the code, it states its CMV and defines it, just like every state has hack statutes and codes specifically for hire taxis.....

Nowhere does the 14-1111 code mention CMV or its definition.


Every state has a motor vehicle size and weight codes/statutes as required by fed law. Their, for the most part, vaguely written and many times require actual verbal intrepretation from that state motor vehicle enforcement folks. They cover commercial and non commercial vehicles.

My only overweight violation in my state was a over axle on a brand new 3500 DRW hauling a bedfull of wet gravel . A trooper got me on a back road going home. He gave me a 14-119 code violation.
At the time I paid my ticket I questioned the fact that I'm a non commercial operator. The officer said the code reads "or other person" which covers any vehicle on the road. Lesson learned as I also thought a private use vehicle had no weight restrictions.

I sure wouldn't assume a leo of any kind cannot write a overweight ticket for a private use vehicle.
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