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10-24-2016, 04:07 PM
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#1
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Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 362
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Why all the 1/2T negativity?
Why all the half ton negativity even with set ups within payload and towing ratings?
I've seen people claiming 1,000lb hitch weight being too much for a truck with 1,800lb payload.
Absolutely no fifth wheels even though some F150 have around 3,000 lb payload.
Yet this site is full of 3/4 and 1T SRW towing rigs with 3k dry hitch weight, but we are to believe it's ok because they are under axle ratings?
Same set ups GVWR of 18-21k grossly exceeding rated tow capacity. But it's ok because they only plan on loading it to 17k or 18k?
It's a double standard.
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10-24-2016, 04:12 PM
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#2
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Chula Vista, Ca.
Posts: 538
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Payload capacity and hitch tongue weight capacity are two entirely different things.
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10-24-2016, 04:24 PM
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#3
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Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 362
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Yes, but if you have 700-800lb reserve between payload and a 15% of GVWR hitch weight, you likely have plenty of reserve.
Which can't be said for many of those guy hauling around 44-45' toyhauler with SRW diesels.
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10-24-2016, 04:35 PM
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#4
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Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Long Beach, Calif.
Posts: 220
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Another downside to 1/2 ton rated trucks, they don't have the breaking systems that 3/4 or 1 ton have. They require a longer distance to stop even with trailer assisted brakes.
__________________
Travel Supreme 03 40DS03
Cummins 400 HP ISL 8.9
2010 Jeep Wrangler JK
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10-24-2016, 04:47 PM
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#5
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Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 362
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I'd rather tow 10k with the right 1/2T than some of these SRW weights...
19,000 gross, 3160 dry pin
19,000 gross, 3,070 dry pin
17,000 gross, 3,400 dry pin
19,000 gross, 3775 dry pin
21,000 gross, 2881 dry pin.
My 3500 SRW has a sticker payload of 3,793. Max tow of around 17,000. Loaded up, ready to camp with my lard ass, my wife, 2 kids, bikes, wood, cooler, blocking, dog, misc I've lost about ~750lbs of that.
This is ok yet some don't think a 1/2T can tow over 6k regardless of mfr specs?
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10-24-2016, 05:05 PM
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#6
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Senior Member
Thor Owners Club Pond Piggies Club Outdoors RV Owners Club
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: NE. Ohio USA
Posts: 5,972
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I'll stick with my tiny little 1/2 ton Tundra...Pulled me and my 6k tt all over Alaska this summer and back to OH.
Did see 2-3 big trucks (3/4, 1 T) on the side of the road with blown tranny's. They sure like those 44' toy haulers out west and in the last frontier....In my opinion a F-250 is just not enough truck for those big triple axle haulers. Throw in some wind, road grades, cargo, toys and what ever else Alaska and the Yukon can throw at you and it's just a matter of time for a break down.
? between a f-150 and a f-350 how much different are the transmissions?
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10-24-2016, 05:44 PM
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#7
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Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 362
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Superslif
? between a f-150 and a f-350 how much different are the transmissions?
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6 sp in the 150 is 6R80. The 80 is its max torque. Most believe this equals 800 N-M or 590 lbft. The 6 sp in the SD is 6R140. 1400N-M or 1032 lbft.
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10-24-2016, 06:55 PM
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#8
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Member
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drittal
Why all the half ton negativity even with set ups within payload and towing ratings?
I've seen people claiming 1,000lb hitch weight being too much for a truck with 1,800lb payload.
...
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I towed with a trailer with nearly 1,000 tongue weight and I had almost 1,900 pounds of payload on GMC 1500 max tow. But here was the problem, I have a large family, so the time we loaded everyone up and gear, I was right on the edge. So it's not that a half ton can't do it, it's all about what else you are doing.
Then there's the whole tail wagging the dog thing.... Sometimes that added weight of bigger truck just makes the whole towing experience that much better.
So it's not that a half ton can't, because they certainly can, but there are many other factors to look at.
__________________
Palomino SolAire 307QBDSK
2016 Chevy Silverado 2500HD, 6.0L, CC, 4.10
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10-24-2016, 07:02 PM
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#9
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Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 362
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SouthpawHD
I towed with a trailer with nearly 1,000 tongue weight and I had almost 1,900 pounds of payload on GMC 1500 max tow. But here was the problem, I have a large family, so the time we loaded everyone up and gear, I was right on the edge. So it's not that a half ton can't do it, it's all about what else you are doing.
Then there's the whole tail wagging the dog thing.... Sometimes that added weight of bigger truck just makes the whole towing experience that much better.
So it's not that a half ton can't, because they certainly can, but there are many other factors to look at.
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That all goes in hand with responsible buying. Need to know weights and factor them in and leave some fudge room.
As for tail wagging, I've seen an improperly loaded Stryker 2912 with a GVWR of just under 10k wag a 3500 DRW diesel.
Properly set up a heavier TV will be more stable, but a lighter one won't be unsafe within its capacities.
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10-24-2016, 07:47 PM
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#10
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Senior Member
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Spicewood, Tx
Posts: 708
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mmartin
Another downside to 1/2 ton rated trucks, they don't have the breaking systems that 3/4 or 1 ton have. They require a longer distance to stop even with trailer assisted brakes.
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Your response is a perfect example of what the OP is referring to. If you look at the published 60-0 mph stopping distances, you will find there is very little difference between brand X's 1/2 ton model, their 3/4 ton model or their 1 ton model. The heavier trucks have bigger brakes because they are HEAVIER. The published numbers are almost always with empty trucks and generally HD trucks have a higher load capacity as a percentage of dry weight. So when loaded to GVWR, HD trucks might have worse stopping distances than there lighter companions. Finally, if the HD trucks did have consistently superior stopping distances, then pressure from buyers, competition, or the gov. would force improvements to 1/2 ton trucks.
All the above is for solo vehicles. What is critical for safe stopping when towing is superior stopping of the trailer so it doesn't push the tow vehicle. So focus on the best brake controller, well maintained brakes and if possible disc brakes on the trailer.
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10-24-2016, 07:50 PM
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#11
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Moderator Emeritus
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: HillBilly country, Smokey Mtns
Posts: 4,171
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drittal
6 sp in the 150 is 6R80. The 80 is its max torque. Most believe this equals 800 N-M or 590 lbft.
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Not exactly correct. In Ford-speak a 6R80 means
6 = 6-speed
R = Rear-wheel drive
80 = 800 lb/ft torque after the torque converter, usually measured with a chassis dynometer at the rear wheels (400 torque at the tranny input shaft)
Way back when, my F-250 had a 4R100 tranny which meant
4-speed
Rear wheel drive
1,000 lb/ft torque at the rear wheels or half that at the tranny input shaft.
The torque converter about doubles the torque the engine produces. So don't think the 6R80 can handle 800 lb/ft torque coming off the flywheel. It can't. But it can scare 800 lb/ft of torque at the rear wheels as measured by a chassis dynometer.
__________________
Grumpy ole man with over 60 years towing experience. Now my heaviest trailer is a 7'x16' 5,000-pound flatbed utility trailer, my tow vehicle is a 2019 F-150 Lariat 3.5L EcoBoost SuperCab with Max Tow (1,904 pounds payload capacity).
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10-24-2016, 08:58 PM
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#12
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Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 1,442
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Superslif
?......Did see 2-3 big trucks (3/4, 1 T) on the side of the road with blown tranny's.
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Man, you need to sell your services to the public. I have never known anyone able to diagnose a mechanical failure just by driving by. Just funnin.
__________________
2014 Raptor 300MP, 2014 Cowboy Cadillac - Ram 3500 Crew Cab Long Bed Longhorn 6.7 Cummins Turbo Diesel DRW 4.10 Rear End, 5588 Payload, Firestone Airbags, Curt Q20, TST507
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10-25-2016, 12:13 AM
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#13
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Northern California
Posts: 239
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I think it's based on educating people. There is so much conflicting and misinformation. It is dangerous to pull overloaded.
__________________
Dodge Ram 4x4 Cummins 2020 Timber Ridge 25RDS
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10-25-2016, 03:42 AM
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#14
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Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 362
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SmokeyWren
Not exactly correct. In Ford-speak a 6R80 means
6 = 6-speed
R = Rear-wheel drive
80 = 800 lb/ft torque after the torque converter, usually measured with a chassis dynometer at the rear wheels (400 torque at the tranny input shaft)
Way back when, my F-250 had a 4R100 tranny which meant
4-speed
Rear wheel drive
1,000 lb/ft torque at the rear wheels or half that at the tranny input shaft.
The torque converter about doubles the torque the engine produces. So don't think the 6R80 can handle 800 lb/ft torque coming off the flywheel. It can't. But it can scare 800 lb/ft of torque at the rear wheels as measured by a chassis dynometer.
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Can you provide a source? I was going off an article about the 6R80 on F150 hub and Ford stating the 4R70W being able to handle 506lbft, or 686N-M. I can't find where Ford has given a definitive answer. Thanks.
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