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Old 10-18-2013, 10:58 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by fvstringpicker View Post
After I post this thread I did weigh it and with the propane tanks full its 873 lbs. I need to get on level ground and see how much the front end rises.
What?
You need truck weight no trailer.
Truck weight with trailer w/no bars.
Truck weight with trailer w/bars.
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Old 10-18-2013, 01:32 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by jesilvas View Post
What?
You need truck weight no trailer.
Truck weight with trailer w/no bars.
Truck weight with trailer w/bars.
Wouldn't the truck weigh almost the same? Maybe more on the front axle and less on the rear.
The amount transfered to the trailer wheels won't be much given the length of the lever from the fulcrum. Otherwise people would be overloading their trailer axles.
Maybe I'm wrong, but the point is the transfer from rear to front axle of the truck.
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Old 10-18-2013, 03:55 PM   #17
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The truck is 7,100 and change with two adults, tools, fuel. Add another 100-150 for two dogs, trailer hitch, and misc supplies. Like I said, I'm using the bars. There's too many "if" by not using them and I think I'd be pushing the limit of the hitch @ 900 lbs. I appreciate everybody's input.
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Old 10-20-2013, 05:56 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by TDI-Minnie View Post
Wouldn't the truck weigh almost the same? Maybe more on the front axle and less on the rear.
The amount transfered to the trailer wheels won't be much given the length of the lever from the fulcrum. Otherwise people would be overloading their trailer axles.
Maybe I'm wrong, but the point is the transfer from rear to front axle of the truck.
Depends on how tight you set your bars.

With a trailer of 8000 GVWR you could have a tongue weight of 1200. Add hitch and cargo and people in truck, you can overload the truck GVWR and rear GAWR, as well as take too much weight off the front axle.
So yes, mainly it's for truck loading, per axle.
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Old 10-20-2013, 09:20 PM   #19
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Not using WD is not a big deal if trailer is lite on the hitch. I would not be using them if I could find trailer with 5000 total and 300 lb hitch weight, as it is typical on Europe. But I really need them with 600 lb+, the rear get squatted, although not badly.
The WD hitch sends 10-15% of hitch weight back to the trailer, usually this weight is equivalent to the weight of hitch hardware, may be a little bit more. On the scales I can see only 570 lb added to the Gvw of my TV which is not bad.
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Old 10-21-2013, 10:57 AM   #20
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This is what etrailer says about WDH hitches:

You would likely benefit from a weight-distribution system if:
Your trailer weight (GTW) is more than 50 percent of your vehicle's weight (GVWR)
  • The rear of your tow vehicle sags when the trailer is hooked up
  • You experience trailer sway
  • Your tow vehicle headlights point upward
  • You find it difficult to steer or stop your rig
  • You want to tow to the highest capacity allowed by your vehicle's trailer hitch setup
No, a WDH does not transfer 10-15% back onto the trailer axles. In a correctly dialed in WDH, you will end up with about 25% on the steer axle, 50% on the drive axle and 25% onto the trailer axles. The "10-15%" figure is what the typical tongue weight of a TT is based on the total TT weight (GTW).

Personally, I would not want to tow a TT unless I am doing it in the most safe manner possible as well as the most comfortable. Even if the payload numbers and hitch rating say you can do it, you'll be making the front end of the truck lighter and potentially making it harder to handle at speed or in emergency evasive maneuvers. Not sure I'd want to do that at 65mph on the interstate and in windy and rainy conditions. If you end up with significant sag, if you have to brake hard in an emergency, you may end up overloading the rear brakes and on a wet road, maybe the front tires losing grip.

Not using a WDH also means not using any type of sway control. Do you really want to do that?

The first thing I'd want to know is the actual payload capacity of the truck, not the number on the door jamb sticker. Is the tongue wt. number you quoted the actual or factory dry wt.? Our actual tongue wt. nearly doubled from the factory number. Without knowing your truck's actual payload capacity and actual tongue wt., you're kinda flying blind by thinking about not using a WDH. There's too many stories out there about RVers losing control of their TT for unexplained reasons. We are now towing a 29' TT with a 3/4 ton truck and I can't imagine going anywhere except for very short distances without our Reese DC WDH hooked up. It goes down the highway under any conditions straight as an arrow and is super comfortable to drive. I sure wouldn't want to take away from that.

I think it may also depend somewhat on if you have a short or long box, and if a regular cab, extended or crew cab. 800+ lbs of tongue wt. is a vertical force from a point past your bumper. That weight is not distributed in the box. If you start to get sway, I am guessing that it'd be harder to control (without WDH) if you have a shorter wheelbase truck. We have a long box and supercab and notice a big handling improvement over our old regular cab truck (with LB).

If faced with 2 alternatives, always take the safer one.

My 2 cents....
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Old 10-21-2013, 07:03 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by myredracer View Post
Not using a WDH also means not using any type of sway control. Do you really want to do that?
This may be true of most tow vehicles, but you can't make a "blanket" statment like that because it is not correct.

Many tow vehicles can control sway using brake/stability control and the trailer brakes. Not the most efficient rout if you are going too fast and it's constantly taping one brake or the other, but HIGHLY effective because it nips the sway before your butt in the seat can even feel it. I can tow my 26 foot TT at 70mph and it's rock solid behind our vehicle. Nothing more than a 10,000lb rated 3" ball back there. If I go 75mph or there is heavy truck traffic, I can occasionally feel a jiggle, but most any rig will do that. Just slow down.

We already know that the friction-based sway control that most people use only partially limits sway once it starts geting noticable, so it's not really a good solution either. Besides the fact that they wear out and become less effective ever time you use them. Hensley or similay thousand+dollar, 100lbs hitch rigs actually do geometrically eliminate sway and do NOT require WD, though they are usually compatible. But they are very expensive, heavy and hard to hook up.

The most important thing is that you have the right setup for your vehicle. Please don't say that what works for you is the "only [safe]choice".
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Old 10-23-2013, 03:30 AM   #22
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The Ford RV and Trailer Towing Guides for ever year 1997 through 2010 state that any trailer that weighs more than 5,000 pounds requires a weight-distributing or fifth-wheel hitch. I haven't looked at the latest versions of the RV and Trailer Towing guides, but I'll bet they continue to say the same thing.

For most weight-carrying hitches you can add antiquated friction-type sway bars without a WDH. There are much better sway control systems available that work with WD hitches, such as the Reese dual cam system, but the old fashioned friction-type sway control bars will work with a weight-carrying hitch that has tab(s) added to connect the sway bars to the ball mount.



Two of the tiny balls shown above must be used, one on the side of the tongue and the other on the ball mount. The weight-carrying ball mount must have one or two tabs added where the tiny ball bolts onto the ball mount, but those ball mounts are available, or any good welder can add the tabs to an ordinary WC ball mount. Here's one like mine, with one tab for one sway control bar:



When double-towing my 10' box trailer that grosses around 2,500 pounds behind my fifth wheel, I use one of those type sway control bars with a weight-carrying hitch. Without the sway control, when the 5er does a jig the utility trailer does a huge jog and begins to go into a sway condition. One of those sway control bars tightened down good and snug takes care of the sway on that trailer. Two of those, one on each side of the tongue, would work even better.
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