Yet Another Truck Purchase Question

[JAM17]

Hello Everyone!

My husband and I are completely new to all this, but we have decided we want to join the movement!

We have settled on the Winnebago Minnie 2455BH, 27'11" with a max GVWR of 7000lbs (5320 dry weight), estimated tongue weight of 660lbs (but I am assuming 720 just to be safe), for our family of 3 and 2 dogs.

We have to buy a tow vehicle however. We are used to MUCH cheaper and smaller vehicles and are very fuel conscious people with our other cars being hybrids, ha ha, so this is VERY new to us. I have spent the better part of a month getting to know the calculations and the abbreviations and understanding payload and what equipment is needed, but I am still struggling with pulling the trigger on the tow vehicle. My husband assures me that the one we have picked out will be fine, but I keep reading and it seems half the people would pull with this, and then half the people would get something much bigger. It seems this Minnie is on the borderline of whether or not people would tow with this vehicle.

So, we are considering a 2017 F-150 XL, 3.5 EB, with maximum tow package. According to everything it says, with all of that, the payload should be about 2050, (with family weight and tongue weight and stuff in the truck we estimate using 1050) and the maximum towing capacity is at least 10,000lbs. In all of your experiences, does this seem like enough?
I'll be honest and say I never knew how expensive trucks were so any chance to keep the cost of the truck down while also getting what we need would be essential. This will also be my daily commuter vehicle, and I am not interested in driving a gigantic vehicle, I am used to a tiny civic...

We aren't interested in a smaller trailer, only because we don't want to quickly outgrow it, but we also don't want anything bigger because we have only towed boats before and aren't interested in dragging anything much longer than that.

I would appreciate only constructive feedback. If it legitimately is not going to work or if there are other things you all can help us think of, that would be great but please refrain from the unhelpful "you have no business towing if you haven't done it before" or "you shouldn't be driving something that you aren't comfortable in", considering we all have to learn at some point

Thank you all so much for your help! I am really anxious about making the right decision and am looking forward to family memories that don't involve us picking up the pieces of our rv on the side of the road . Oh and we would be towing mainly on weekends, and occasional week or two a year if that makes a difference? I just trust all of you who have been doing it much longer than us to steer us right!

[bfisher003]

You will not have any problem pulling or handling that trailer with the 3.5 EB Max Towing F150, assuming you use a good weight distribution anti-sway hitch, such as the Blue Ox Sway Pro or Equalizer, etc. We pull a 2016 Keystone Bullet 269RLS (31' ball to bumper, 7,500 GVW (~6,500 trip loaded)) with a 2013 F150 Platinum Screw 4x4, 3.5 EB with Max Tow and 3.73 EL rear using a Blue Ox Sway Pro. We are currently in western Montana on a meandering route back home in Florida after going to Alaska and our truck handles our trailer easily in all the many conditions we've been in. And a plus for you is the 2017 3.5 EB has more horsepower and torque than our 2013. You will quickly get used to the size of the truck compared to what you have been driving. The 3.5 EB is a great engine and you will get pretty good gas mileage. On our Alaska trip we are averaging right around 10 mpg overall. We normally get around 18 Highway and 13 in town, but we have a 3.73 rear end. I believe the 2017s come with higher rear ends, 3.51 or 3.31, even with Max Towing, so your gas mileage will probably be better than ours. It sounds like you should be very happy with your selections of trailer and truck. Good luck.

[Normal_Dave]

What an outstanding decision process for your tow rig! You've certainly put time and effort in, more than most "veterans".

Reading your post, I want to throw a slight curve ball. New trucks do cost a lot, and it seems I'm always looking for "the mostest for the leastest..." The 3.5L EB is an outstanding powerplant, but they sure are proud of them, dollar-wise.

Since you will be towing a travel trailer, I'd try not to focus on fuel economy for this venture, you'll just become frustrated. Remember, you're effectively driving down the road pulling a barn door behind you. Chalk up fuel to the "cost of doing business", and just enjoy the trips with family, The dogs probably won't notice the difference.

BTW, are you getting a Supercrew, and 4WD? Also noticed you chose the XL trim, guessing this is for budget reasons. With all that said, I wonder if you couldn't get more truck for less money by choosing the 5.0L Coyote engine?

Here's why:
Example- Supercrew with 3.55 gear:
5.0 Coyote 385HP @ 5,750 and 387 ft/lbs torque @ 3,850 14,500 GCWR/9,000 max trailer

3.5L EB 375HP @ 5,000 and 470 ft/lbs torque @ 2,500 16,100 GCWR/10,700 max trailer

Only ~ 9% less GCWR with the Coyote, and you might be able to get XLT or other trim for less money.

I think the lowly 5.0L Coyote is often overlooked since it isn't glamorous and doesn't market the fuel economy of the EB, which mostly goes out the window when towing anyhow. ("more boost, than eco...") Seems you could get an XLT, with the 5.0L for maybe less money, and still have more than enough truck to do the job. IMO, it is the best kept secret in towing for the dollar, and I'm an old-school Mopar guy to boot!

Oh, and there's this fun video:
https://youtu.be/9nUCx5IQZro

Good Luck, and welcome to the madness!

[450Donn]

Think used for starters. Both truck and trailer wise. Let someone else eat the depreciation, and use the savings to pay for fuel. Like someone else mentioned forget about fuel economy. You have to pay to play. Unless your driving the TV everyday an eco Ford is still only going to get you 10MPG when towing. Heck my Ram dually does better towing way more.

[SmokeyWren]

Originally Posted by JAM17

So, we are considering a 2017 F-150 XL, 3.5 EB, with maximum tow package. According to everything it says, with all of that, the payload should be about 2050, (with family weight and tongue weight and stuff in the truck we estimate using 1050) and the maximum towing capacity is at least 10,000lbs. In all of your experiences, does this seem like enough?

Probably, but be sure you get max tow.

I'll be honest and say I never knew how expensive trucks were so any chance to keep the cost of the truck down while also getting what we need would be essential. This will also be my daily commuter vehicle, and I am not interested in driving a gigantic vehicle, I am used to a tiny civic...

Okay, but take your time to get exactly the minimum-cost F-150 available that has what you need and want.

The XL trim is the plain-Jane "work truck" trim without power anything and without cruise control. A nice lady should not have to drive an XL with no options as a commuter car. So if you were my granddaughter, here's what I would suggest you do.

Don't try to find a 2017 that meets your specs. Instead order a new 2018 with the following specs. The 2018 will probably cost a bit more, but you'll get it back some day when you trade it in. Caveat: Yesterday, I discussed ordering a new 2018 F-150 with my dealer. a close family friend. He said he expects an order for a 2018 F-150 will won't result in the pickup arriving at his dealership before November. So don't buy something that doesn't set your heart aflutter to prevent having to wait for delivery. Decide exactly what you want, order it, then wait - and wait- and wait. I have ordered (and waited) for new "cars" numerous times since I ordered a new 1965 Corvette Stingray coupe that required 6 months for delivery. I ordered all three of my current vehicles, including my 2012 F-150, to get exactly what I wanted (and was willing to pay for).

⦁ $34,060 base MSRP =
- 2018 Ford F-150 XL SuperCab: yes SuperCab. SuperCrew (CrewCab) is a luxury, and regular cab doesn't have enough room inside out of the weather for hauling your "stuff". SuperCab is a good compromise.

- 6-1/2' Box: This is the shortest box available in a SuperCab. You don't need the longer 8' box

- 3.5L V6 EcoBoost® with Auto Start/Stop Technology Engine: Wonderful drivetrain that's required to get max tow pkg.

- Electronic Ten-Speed Automatic Transmission with Tow/Haul and Sport Mode: This is the tranny you get with the 3.5L EcoBoost engine. You'll appreciate it.

- 4X2: You don't need expensive 4x4 if you get the e-locker rear axle and learn how to drive. I've never owned a 4x4, and I've lived in Maine, Nebraska and Colorado for about 30 years during my working years.

- 3.55 Electronic Locking Axle Ratio: required to get max tow, plus you need the e-locker so you won't get stuck on wet grass.

And then the options:

Paint
⦁ $0 Race Red = they'll see you coming!
Equipment Groups
⦁ $2,255 101A minus ($750) Equipment Group 101A Discount = $1,505: adds power everything, cruise control, CD player, SYNC and more
⦁ $1,295 Max Trailer Tow Package (only $300 more than the $995 regular towing pkg)
⦁ $0 Power Equipment Group (part of 101A trim)
Includes:
.....• Manual-folding, power glass sideview mirrors with Black skull caps
.....• Illuminated Entry
.....• MyKey®
.......• Perimeter Alarm
.....• Power locks with flip key and integrated key transmitter keyless-entry (includes Autolock)
.....• Power tailgate lock
.....• Power windows (front on Regular Cab, front and rear on SuperCab and SuperCrew®)

Exterior
⦁ $100 Rear Windows - Privacy Glass
⦁ $220 Rear Windows - Defroster
⦁ $0 Extended Range 36 Gallon Fuel Tank (part of max tow pkg)
⦁ $175 LED Side-Mirror Spotlights (required to get tow mirrors)
⦁ $395 Manual-Folding, Manually Telescoping, Power Glass Trailer Tow Mirrors with Heat, Turn Signal, High-Intensity LED Security Approach Lamps (Yes, you gotta have these to tow a TT)
⦁ $0 17-inch Silver-Painted Steel Wheels
⦁ $0 3.55 Electronic Locking Axle Ratio (part of max tow)
⦁ $0 245/70R17 BSW All-Season Tires (Standard tires)
InteriorS4
⦁ $0 Medium Earth Gray
⦁ $0 Single-Zone Manual Air Conditioning
⦁ $0 Flooring - Vinyl, Black
⦁ $0 Pro Trailer Backup Assist™ (part of max tow)
⦁ $0 Trailer Brake Controller (TBC) (part of max tow)
⦁ $0 Cruise Control (part of 101A)
⦁ $0 Rear View Camera with Dynamic Hitch Assist (part of 101A with max tow)
⦁ $0 AM/FM with Single-CD Radio
⦁ $0 SYNC®
⦁ $0 Cloth 40/20/40 Front Seats with 2-Way Manual Driver/Passenger Armrest (nice seats from the XLT, replaces vinyl "work truck" seats)

$38,295 Net Price MSRP

There are other options available, but be sure any you add does not require deletion of max tow, 3.5L EcoBoost engine, or 3.55 e-Locker rear axle.

[JAM17]

You guys are awesome! Thank you so much! This has really helped us think a bit more.

A few thoughts... I definitely would prefer to go used on both items but there are two issues with that... with the trailer, there are next to NO used ones, especially in our area (which I even do nationwide searches and can't come up with much), I assume because the model is a bit newer and not many people have really gotten them yet? but I have alerts set up to let me know if a good used one pops up As for the truck, we need to have the supercrewcab due to space issues with our daughter and our two dogs HATE riding in the car and need the extra space for them to freak out in, as they are bigger sized dogs... not huge, but about medium (labs)... as for buying used, we most definitely would except, again there is a supply issue, as there are few used ones that we "know" have the tow package in them, and I personally don't want to risk getting one without it. We are willing to spend the extra bucks just to know we got exactly what we need, not ideal, but at least we aren't spending still 30k on a used one that turns out isn't equipped to tow what we need or puts us too close to our maximum.

The mpg is not a concern for us, we are fuel conscious on our day to day driving and up to the point that we decided we wanted to start hauling this thing, but recognize that this will a different beast, and aren't really keeping that at the forefront.. I more just shared that so you all could understand how different this is for us, ha ha!

I am going to take the feedback into consideration though as we keep narrowing down our decision, especially the consideration about the engine-
because we definitely want to get the most from our money, while not making any poor safety decisions... I am definitely trying to take our time with this, given that both are going to be pretty major investments, but our hope is to go full timing eventually (retirement or if either of our jobs take a hit), so we know we are technically investing in our family bonding and future retirement, ha ha... Thank you all so much for taking the time out to respond, it is definitely appreciated!

[Normal_Dave]

If you want to consider used Fords, you can enter the VIN number in the link below, and you'll get all the build specs for the specific vehicle you are considering, engine, tow package, gear ratio, option packages, etc. Makes it a much easier shopping process.
Vehicle Lookup

Ram has the best access to used vehicle information, Ford 2nd, GM, well it's a treasure hunt.

[JAM17]

Originally Posted by Normal_Dave

If you want to consider used Fords, you can enter the VIN number in the link below, and you'll get all the build specs for the specific vehicle you are considering, engine, tow package, gear ratio, option packages, etc. Makes it a much easier shopping process.
Vehicle Lookup

Ram has the best access to used vehicle information, Ford 2nd, GM, well it's a treasure hunt.

Oh my goodness that is perfect! Thank you so much for this!

[xrated]

Jam17......One thing to keep in mind before ordering a truck; The more options/equipment that it has on it, the more your available payload capacity goes down. The difference between an XL truck and a XLT or Lariat can be several hundred pounds of lost payload capacity. Most of us like the well equipped truck's and all of the comfort/convenience that they provide, especially on longer trips, but that comfort/convenience comes at a cost....both moneywise and payload wise. Just something else to consider before making a final decision.

Second thing.....if you are are looking at a GVWR of 7000 lbs for the trailer, a very minimum tongue weight would be 10% Which is 700 lbs. A safer and more reasonable real world tongue weight is in the 12-13% range....which would put the tongue weight in the 840-910 lb range. And of course that amount plus another 75 lbs or so would be deducted from your available payload. So you see what I'm talking about when I mention all the factors that eat away at the payload of the truck. Hope this helps clarify even more, what you will be dealing with. Just continue to research and be informed BEFORE getting a truck and then you can rest easy that you guys made a good decision and not have regrets afterwords.

[JAM17]

Originally Posted by xrated

Jam17......One thing to keep in mind before ordering a truck; The more options/equipment that it has on it, the more your available payload capacity goes down. The difference between an XL truck and a XLT or Lariat can be several hundred pounds of lost payload capacity. Most of us like the well equipped truck's and all of the comfort/convenience that they provide, especially on longer trips, but that comfort/convenience comes at a cost....both moneywise and payload wise. Just something else to consider before making a final decision.

That is certainly something to think about.. I think husband wants to go bare bones, but I think he forgets I will be using this car every day and we may take really long trips in this, and I would like to have some power windows...

[Normal_Dave]

Since I like spending other people's money, here's an example:
https://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-...de1=F150PICKUP

Entering the VIN into the etis system reveals:
2015 Supercrew 2WD
5.0L
XLT Sport/Family carrier
3.55 gear
HD tow package
Adjustable pedals

Sure saves time asking questions and making appointments...also gives you an edge knowing ahead of time the candidate vehicle meets your options list/wants/needs.


Edit: and a brand spanking new one in Baltimore (Koons) advertised for ~$ 34K
http://www.windowsticker.forddirect....FtryOu6wwRI%3D


Supercrew 2WD XLT Sport 5.0L
3.55
e-locker (sticker says yes, etis says no?)
HD towing package
driver and passenger power seats
36 gallon fuel tank
-doesn't get much better than that..

[JAM17]

Originally Posted by Normal_Dave

If you want to consider used Fords, you can enter the VIN number in the link below, and you'll get all the build specs for the specific vehicle you are considering, engine, tow package, gear ratio, option packages, etc. Makes it a much easier shopping process.
Vehicle Lookup

Ram has the best access to used vehicle information, Ford 2nd, GM, well it's a treasure hunt.

I have literally gone through all of the used vehicles in our area for the F150s, and only two came back with the max tow pkg , this was a great help!

[SmokeyWren]

On edit of earlier post: You have only one hour after posting to edit a post, so that's why the following is not included in my original post.

Originally Posted by Smokey

Exterior
⦁ $100 Rear Windows - Privacy Glass
⦁ $220 Rear Windows - Defroster

I didn't add these, so apparently they are a required option with something else I included. But if ordering for me, I'd definitely include both.

Originally Posted by Smokey

⦁ $395 Manual-Folding, Manually Telescoping, Power Glass Trailer Tow Mirrors with Heat, Turn Signal, High-Intensity LED Security Approach Lamps (Yes, you gotta have these to tow a TT)

You definitely need tow mirrors, but less expensive tow mirrors are available without power glass for only $60 MSRP if you order the base 100A trim pkg - but not with 101A which includes power mirrors, power windows, power door locks and all sorts of other goodies.

Originally Posted by Smokey

$1,295 Max Trailer Tow Package

Includes integrated trailer brake controller (ITBC), slightly stronger receiver, and the regular tow pkg. In earlier F-150s, max tow included the tow mirrors, but now they are a stand-along option.

Originally Posted by JAM17

SuperCab vs. SuperCrew

I agree the SuperCrew is much better for dogs. The rear seat bottom folds up against the backrest, leaving an almost flat floor for the furrballs. The rear seat is split 60/40, so for hauling both our dogs and a tweenager, I'd probably put the kid in the 40 seat and let the dogs have the 60 space on the floor. Our Border Collie plus Chihuahua are best pals, so they don't mind being crowded together. In fact, the little dog usually naps on top of the big dog. Both have crates at home for sleeping, but little dog prefers to crowd into big dog's crate instead of staying in her own.

The SuperCrew with 5.5' bed and the SuperCab with 6.5' bed both are the same overall length with 145" wheelbase. The CrewCab has an extra 12" of legroom in the back seat. If you don't need a longer bed for some reason, then the SuperCrew with 145" wheelbase will tow a TT just fine.

[Normal_Dave]

Stirring the pot:

2015 Minnie 2451BHS:
Used 2015 Winnebago Industries Towables Minnie 2451 BHS Travel Trailer at Stoltzfus RVs | Adamstown, PA | #15766A

Edit: And a big road trip... not kidding, hear me out. Sunnybrook "birthed" the Winnebago line of travel trailers. Consider this a Minnie with "many" more features, and better quality. 5,500 lb dry weight, and I challenge anyone to find a better built, higher quality, new trailer at 2x the price.
http://www.pplmotorhomes.com/travelt...mony-36548.htm

Brochure (2011 identical to 2012)
http://www.jerrystrailers.com/fckima...%20Harmony.pdf

Heated, insulated tanks, all aluminum superstructure, 2" thick walls, pocket jig screw cabinets, hardwood faces, porcelain toilet, metal plumbing fixtures, high gloss gel coat exterior fiberglass, trail-air suspension with shock absorbers, heavy duty trailer frame.

Back to your regular program...