Go Back   iRV2 Forums > TRAVEL TRAILER, 5th WHEEL & TRUCK CAMPER FORUMS > Toy Haulers Discussion
Click Here to Login
Join iRV2 Today

Mission Statement: Supporting thoughtful exchange of knowledge, values and experience among RV enthusiasts.
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 12-12-2015, 07:56 PM   #1
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 1
Considering a 5th Wheel Toy Hauler... Wrong Decision?

Hello everyone. Long time lurker, first time poster. This forum is an awesome source of information, and I am excited at the possibility of being more of a part of it soon.

A little about me and what I am doing: I travel all over the country to race motorcycles, spend 5-8 months of the year on the road, and typically travel alone with my two dogs, or sometimes with a few racing buddies. I currently travel out of an XLR Hyper Lite bumper pull toy hauler, and have not been super happy with it. In 2 years I have put 35,000 miles on it, which is most likely why I have had so many issues, as it was not designed for that much use. It has had build quality issues, is worthless in cold weather, and pulls terribly behind my 3500 Dually 6.7 Cummins RAM.

I am looking at the possibility of a momentum 348M or maybe a 397TH, but have a lot of concerns and questions before spending the significant amount of money these trailers cost. I am led to believe that the Momentum is a higher quality unit than you get with other manufacturers, and is likely my best bet at having a reliable trailer for a long period of time. Hopefully some members can help!

1. Am I unrealistic in hoping to have a reliable trailer at all when I pull it down the road as much as I do? Do any members here on this forum put a lot of miles on their trailer traveling to races or similar? Am I going in the complete wrong direction in wanting a 5th wheel rather than a Toy Hauler Motorhome like an outlaw and pulling a small truck or van?

2. I am absolutely terrified at the idea of having something as big as these rigs, with as much as I'm traveling, and boon docking at races or secondary roads, I worry that the height of these rigs will prove unwieldy. Is it going to be a big deal going from my 30 foot bumper pull to a rig that is 10 feet longer and much taller? I worry about getting fuel on the road, turning around, getting under trees and power lines... etc.

3. How are these coaches in cold weather? A lot of the times I am traveling through cold parts of the country with water in the rig in order to take showers and use the bathroom. Last year we were at a race in texas where it was 70 degrees and sunny on saturday, then an ice storm came and we were stranded in the rig for 4 days, with temps in the 20s and my "4 season" XLR froze solid, rendering us without a bathroom or shower for 4 days and damaging some plumbing. What are some of the colder temps you guys have used these coaches in?

4. I am torn on floor plans, I need a 11 foot garage or larger, and like the smaller overall size of the 348m. (maybe an unjustified fear of owning the bigger rigs?) I don't like the idea of not having a table and chairs, or dinette to eat at or use the computer. Even my small trailer has a dinette and I often sit there and do computer work when on the road. The only rig that seems to fit that need is the 397, which I absolutely love the floor plan, the bedroom with W/D hookup. I am assuming you could put a stacked unit up there? (not taking up valuable garage space). I just don't want to screw myself by getting something so big I can't maneuver it or get it into a campground, that's why the 348 looks to be the best option despite not loving the floor plan and not having the table I want so much.

In general, is it worth the hassle of having a 40+ foot rig to have the exact floor plan and space that you want?



5. On the larger drop frame trailers, is ground clearance a major issue? Often we are parking in corn fields or the like at the races.

I am sure I will have many more questions before pulling the trigger, but appreciate any advice that can be given, as I am terrified of making the wrong decision on a purchase that can depreciate rapidly like trailers do. I guess my other largest concern is maneuvering such a large rig, as My current 30ft trailer can sometimes be a pain to get in and out of places or turn around at the places we go and ride before the races.

Thanks in advance for reading, and responding!
__________________

__________________
AndrewKane is offline   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 RV Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

iRV2.com RV Community - Are you about to start a new improvement on your RV or need some help with some maintenance? Do you need advice on what products to buy? Or maybe you can give others some advice? No matter where you fit in you'll find that iRV2 is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with other RV owners, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create an RV blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Old 12-13-2015, 12:27 PM   #2
Registered User
 
Forest River Owners Club
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Western, MA
Posts: 619
Man Andrew, you are indeed asking a lot from an RV of any brand. I too have an XLR and have been more than pleased with it but I don't put on nearly the use or miles you do. I'm not a fan of the Outlaw lineup and it's V10 platform. I just like more grunt than that for moving that much mass, especially with a toad. No ground clearance issues with mine but I'm never off road when it's not level. It does sit up quite high though so I'm guessing you'll be ok. As to size, you get used to it quickly. Our last hauler was a Road Warrior 30C at 40' long. Our current XLR 395AMP is 44' long. Between the two, I've hauled them about 20k miles and never had an issue getting fuel on the road or getting jammed up on turning around. One great thing to do to keep you out of trouble is get a Garmin RV NAV unit with back up camera. I ordered it from XLR as a factory option. The camera works great and the NAV allows you to enter your height/weight/width/length. It will route you around any road unsuitable for your parameters. As to cold, even with the "arctic -Canadian - extreme - whatever they want to name it" package, you still only have a 3 season trailer. It will be more insulated than your Hyperlite for sure but nothing other than skirting and insulating under the trailer will keep you from freezing in extreme cold for a long period.

Sorry I can't help more as I don't have experience with your particular set of circumstances but one thing I can say for sure is don't let the size scare you off. I drag mine anywhere and everywhere...

You'll also be amazed at how a 5th pulls with the garage loaded. A TT toyhauler has a lot more to overcome in the sway dept. when the garage lightens the tongue. Where as my 5th, even with a very light pin, tows like an arrow.
__________________

__________________
taken is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-13-2015, 03:51 PM   #3
Senior Member
 
rollondown's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 580
Hi and welcome to the forum. Read you post over on the Grand Design site as well. Didn't comment over there because that crowd does love their manufacture.
If money isn't a hard concern, look into the DRV FullHouse line. They are more expensive but come with better amenities. Frames are box tube instead of I-beam, cold weather is not an issue, most all have separate dinette's and lounge areas. They are tall, but all 5'ers are. A 5th wheel backs different than a bumper pull. A much longer 5'er can be backed into a site where a travel trail could not. It's in the physics of the turn and pivot angles.
My opinion, if you can swing the cost, the DRV is the best Toyhauler. The Grand Design 397TH comes next, then the Jayco line. While you are not living full time in it, you are staying extended times with lots of miles towed.
On the Grand Design family line, plan on tire upgrades or order the 397 with the better tires. Plan on a suspension upgrade to something like the Trailair CenterPoint suspension, or the MorRyde IS system.
Having suspension that actually absorbs road shock lets the rv live much longer with fewer issues of things breaking- doors, drawers, cabinets, etc.
Also plan on using an air ride based hitch in the truck. This will also minimize the shock and jarring.
Safe Travels
__________________
Alie & Jim 2017 DRV Memphis
Volvo Dually Pickup
My keyboard is faster than yours
rollondown is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-13-2015, 05:47 PM   #4
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 314
In what way does your current RV tow terrible?

Agee about 4 season. None will protect your lines from sub freezing temps and towing. Tank heaters and insulati I n help, but not cure.
__________________
drittal is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-14-2015, 02:19 PM   #5
Community Moderator
 
Scarab0088's Avatar


 
Damon Owners Club
Workhorse Chassis Owner
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: SoCal
Posts: 14,053
Since it was mentioned...I will submit that a Class A Toy Hauler give SO MUCH more versatility than a truck and trailer. We dumped our 4 season towable - pulled by a Diesel Dodge 3500 in favor of an Outlaw.

These RV's are perfect for full-timers and/or long term trips with full boondocking/off-grid systems already installed in a true 4 season package.

There are many types of motorized toy haulers including Super C's, but I compiled this for the Class A offerings over the years:
Class "A" Toyhaulers

The 2016 Outlaw and Newmar Canyon Star 3921 have the new 6speed transmission and all reports so far are very positive. Plus in the used market, there were offerings riding on the Workhorse (Vortec 8100/8.1L w/ Allison) and the Freightliner Front Engine Diesel FRED (Cummins Diesel/Allison) chassis...like:
http://www.mhsrv.com/2008-damon-outl...er-tx-i1794224
We are not affiliated

These RV's allow SO MUCH more options over a truck and trailer - IMHO. The garage keeps your toys safe and secure inside the RV, then becomes a multi-purpose space at the destination...and with the Outlaw, the ramp becomes a very large patio-deck.

You can tow a truck or bring along a much more economical vehicle for running around (no need for the HUGE truck).

YMMV - Just wanted to support another option.
__________________
Kim and Steve, Mustang LCDR (Ret), Damon Outlaw #1193
I have seen gross intolerance shown in support of tolerance, Samuel Coleridge
https://www.irv2.com/attachments/signaturepics/sigpic84535_7.gif
WE LOVE OUR OUTLAW RV
Scarab0088 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-14-2015, 04:46 PM   #6
Senior Member
 
Ford Super Duty Owner
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 1,885
I wouldn't touch a Thor motorcoach with a 10-foot pole. Just do a search here to read about all of their various issues and my take away is that there is massive inability to fix substantial design issues when they occur.

On top of that, the gas platforms - they're generally built to a design limit.

I would, however, consider a super-C - or if economy was what I was after, a sprinter towing an enclosed trailer. For extended stays, I'd probably put water and a generator on the trailer (sprinter case).

I've owned 3 gas RVs and I'm calling "done".


In terms of moving to a 5th wheel from a bumper pull - you're right to ask some questions. Our Carbon toy hauler is over 13' feet high. That's an issue at many places where RVs aren't meant to be pulled, often including residential streets. Having something at 10' is a big difference.

In terms of quality, generally they're all built the same until you get into some of the stuff like DRV who actually puts decent suspensions, frames, and brakes on their RVs. I do, however, really like the Momentum (Grand Design) - mainly due to their outstanding customer service, but their overall manufacturing techniques don't differ that much from Keystone (Thor industries) - what does differ is their attention to detail and warranty support. Don't confuse bells and whistles for quality - but do compare how the two companies respond to the complaints of their customers (look it up on the BBB).

Likely in 35k miles, you're going to put a beating on an RV if you're towing two and from races. In those conditions, I'm probably looking at making sure my tires and axles are rated for what I'm towing, in addition, I'm probably going to make changes like a wet bolt kit and probably drop $500 on shocks. DRVs are a little different - some of them come with torque axles, which have to be better, but really, you CAN get what you want under the frame if you look into it.

A 5th wheel will ride better on the truck side. But likely the suspension systems are about the same on the trailer.

I can't comment on the cold-weatherability of DRV. Many people complain that even with "cold weather" packages, you're going to be SOL at 20 degrees. Might have some luck running a small generator if you have tank heaters.
__________________
cb1000rider is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-14-2015, 06:21 PM   #7
Community Moderator
 
Scarab0088's Avatar


 
Damon Owners Club
Workhorse Chassis Owner
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: SoCal
Posts: 14,053
Quote:
Originally Posted by cb1000rider View Post
I wouldn't touch a Thor motorcoach with a 10-foot pole. Just do a search here to read about all of their various issues and my take away is that there is massive inability to fix substantial design issues when they occur.

http://www2.thorindustries.com/operating-entities

Too many expound the opinion above, but it is unfounded...the Outlaw shares nothing with a certain 2013-2014 entry level DP Class A from TMC that caused such an uproar...which BTW, has a lower price point than an Outlaw.

The Outlaw does share several key points with the A.C.E. (best selling Class A in North America last year) and the Outlaw is the best selling motorized Toy Hauler in the world since it's introduction in 2006 as a 2007 model.

Also, the Newmar 3921 is a beautiful RV with reportedly great customer service.

Sure, if 30,000lb GCWR is not enough to haul all the stuff an owner needs, get a rig rated for more. A big Class A towing a stacker or Garage Trailer is by far the sweetest set-up. But DP's have VERY low ground clearance on the front, center, and rear...and really should not go off the blacktop

So, that leaves a big truck and towable. They are great, but few are really able to take the beating of full-timing and/or operating off the flat-top and 5ers have limited flex at the hitch when you do go off the road (read: bed damage imminent). IMHO, towables just can not compare to a Class A

Best luck to the OP!
__________________
Kim and Steve, Mustang LCDR (Ret), Damon Outlaw #1193
I have seen gross intolerance shown in support of tolerance, Samuel Coleridge
https://www.irv2.com/attachments/signaturepics/sigpic84535_7.gif
WE LOVE OUR OUTLAW RV
Scarab0088 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-2015, 03:39 PM   #8
Registered User
 
Forest River Owners Club
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Western, MA
Posts: 619
My issue with the Outlaw is not based in need but more preference. While the V10 is a great motor, had one in my 09 F250, it's not what I'd want moving that 30k GCWR you mentioned. My current 350 gen1 6.7 has 400/800 and when I load my hauler close to it's max, I'm over 27k combined and I wouldn't want any less power and actually want for more. That will be resolved in 2017 though...

As to the Outlaw being the best selling motorized unit, well... not many others making them. The DP versions are gone too so not much competition.
__________________
taken is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-2015, 08:19 PM   #9
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 41
Andrew, I to saw your post on the GD page. We just got our 388M GD and love it. I looked at every brand and followed every page you can imagine. My sister bought a 385th in 2014 and has never had one problem! They travel from Wisconsin to Arkansas. They owned a Forest River before that and got tired of the problems. GD seems to take care of their customers.
My dads best friends son worked for the owners of GD when they were at the other company. He was the one in charge of that toy hauler manufacturing (it was very stressful) they couldn't control the product at that company. He told me I couldn't go wrong with buying a GD because he knows how great the owners are. That was enough for me!
__________________
bhoward is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-2015, 09:03 PM   #10
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 315
I have put nearly 25,000 miles on my XLR Thunderbolt (12' garage) since April 2013. I have had some trouble too. My trouble has mostly been with the components that XLR used (doors, frame, etc.). My concern, if I was looking for another toyhauler, would be that all of the RV makers use the same components. FWIW, I have reached the same conclusion that you did. The more you travel, the more trouble you have.

My 5th wheel toyhauler is 39' long. My total length is probably very close to your 30' bumper pull. My toyhauler is 13' 2" tall. Too high to go into the jungle. My toyhauler came with the axles underneath the springs, i.e., I have good ground clearance.

My toyhauler is made for 3 seasons. The windows are single pane, walls are thin, the bottom is open to the cold.

Your problem is a hard one. I'd be thinking about a box truck and a regular camper.
__________________
andy29847 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-2015, 09:09 PM   #11
Registered User
 
Forest River Owners Club
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Western, MA
Posts: 619
You're right Andy. Lippert makes all the components that make up the modern trailer. Doors, frame, ramp door, windows, slide mechanisms, landing gear, and on and on. It's how you're treated after the sale that matters.
__________________
taken is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-20-2015, 09:12 AM   #12
Senior Member


 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 997
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scarab0088 View Post
.....Since it was mentioned...I will submit that a Class A Toy Hauler give SO MUCH more versatility than a truck and trailer....

These RV's allow SO MUCH more options over a truck and trailer - IMHO. The garage keeps your toys safe and secure inside the RV, then becomes a multi-purpose space at the destination...and with the Outlaw, the ramp becomes a very large patio-deck.

You just described my 5th wheel toy hauler....


Good luck with your search
__________________
2014 Raptor 300MP, 2014 Cowboy Cadillac - Ram 3500 Crew Cab Long Bed Longhorn 6.7 Cummins Turbo Diesel DRW 4.10 Rear End, 5588 Payload, Firestone Airbags, Curt Q20, TST507
raineman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-20-2015, 04:15 PM   #13
Senior Member
 
soundman7's Avatar
 
Mid Atlantic Campers
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Solomons Island MD
Posts: 244
Considering a 5th Wheel Toy Hauler... Wrong Decision?

Hello
I've have also been looking to change to a new toy hauler. We currently have a Glendale Titanium 36E41 and it's been a great unit so I hesitate to change. Two products I like are the new Weekend Warrior and the new KZ Venom. This past week while in Florida I spent 5 hours looking trough toy haulers at Lazy Days and the Venom stood out, this is a new product so only time will tell.

I do like the DRV Full House but don't think there worth the money.

Another great product was the Excel Toy hauler, they went out of business last year but if you can find one used it would serve you well.

http://www.weekendwarriortoyhauler.com/

http://www.kz-rv.com/products/venom-...s/gallery.html

excel wild cargo toy hauler
__________________
soundman7 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-29-2015, 03:18 PM   #14
Senior Member
 
Ford Super Duty Owner
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 1,885
What I know about the DRV - it may very well be worth the money if you care about things like suspension, brakes, and tires... Likely insulation and lots of things that you can't see. I've got no first hand experience - but I know that some of that stuff is different than what you get from many toy hauler models...
__________________

__________________
cb1000rider is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
5th wheel



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Winnebago Destination 5th Wheel update mcumbie Winnebago Industries Owner's Forum 17 11-02-2015 11:01 PM
Toy Hauler vs Travel Trailer?Which Trailer is as Rugged and well-suited for Off-Road? Ryan Travel Trailer Discussion 10 04-13-2015 11:04 PM
4 wheel drive or 2 wheel drive for 5th wheel merlins Trailer Towing and Tow Vehicles Discussion 27 08-22-2014 03:40 PM
Van-up 9-passenger 5th wheel hauler based on Chevy Express 4500 Cutaway Artem Trailer Towing and Tow Vehicles Discussion 10 08-02-2014 07:39 PM
What length Pick up bed is best to pull a 5th wheel toy hauler? Lak Trailer Towing and Tow Vehicles Discussion 33 05-07-2014 08:22 AM

» Virginia Campgrounds

Reviews provided by


Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 07:14 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.