I'm confused about NADA values

[WeatherTodd]

Originally Posted by steveatpa

Let me just say that I guess NADA means nothing because unless the planets are currently somehow aligned in a certain millennial manner, buyers have lost their flipping minds. As I mentioned, I've been looking for awhile for a trailer that works for my family and now having cash in hand to purchase what I thought was the right trailer for "X" dollars, I'm finding that all the overpriced craigslist stuff is SELLING at ridiculous prices over NADA values. I'm talking like $5000 over in some cases. What the heck are people thinking??? The second they hand over their money, they've lost thousands in market value. They better plan on keeping it forever.....or plan on living in it. I guess that's why there are so many people out there upside down in their houses, cars, credit cards..... So whats one more horrible purchase.

If you haven't figured out, I'm frustrated. I'd like to purchase but I simply cant compete with those who dont care about market value. Clearly, this is a "sellers" market.

If used units are selling that much over your "perceived" value... maybe look at new ones. My friend purchased a nearly new travel trailer with a slide and a host of other amenities for ~$15k. New units were over $20k and used/abused were hovering around $10k+ and who knows what kinda problems.

[jzick]

I'm finding that all the overpriced craigslist stuff is SELLING at ridiculous prices over NADA values.

So, let me see if I understand. The stuff is selling at prices agreeable to buyers and sellers but the prices are ridiculous because of something in a book, and are higher than you are willing to pay? I know it has been a long time since I took marketing, but I thought market value was the price one could sell for in a free market. When we sold a motorhome recently what NADA said had no bearing on our selling price. What comparable units were selling for in our area was the only criteria we considered - and that is what our unit sold for.

[Davdeb1]

I think not many people know what NADA stands for. National Auto Dealers Association. These prices come from samplings of actual sales. They rely on dealers to supply this info. The only problem is that there are regional, and calendar differences that are hard to adjust for. When I was in the business, we favored the blackbook.
Even then we still used both books trying to appraise it. I would imagine trying to determine a value on a an RV is even more difficult than a car or truck.

When someone sells on eBay or Craigslist, they sell it for what it is worth, or what the market will bear. You can be sure that someone buying an RV isn't paying 5000 dollars over what they think it is worth. it's just worth more to some people than others.

[doit2010]

I think that when you get to the point of being 15-20 or more years old, a motor home kind of hits a bottom price of about $8000 - $12000 dollars for most MH if they are in shape to go camping right-a-way, meaning nothing more needed than maybe a good wash and cleaning. The exception would be some of the higher end coaches, Blue Birds, Foretravel types, etc. I am speaking of Class A; Class C might have littler lower bottom.

[steveatpa]

Strange..... Not the responses I was expecting. I post a thread about what price value do I use when looking for a used unit and the overwhelming reply was NADA low retail. But now 4 pages later, I'm being criticized because I'm confused as to why people are NOT using NADA as a base line.

[Davdeb1]

Originally Posted by steveatpa

Strange..... Not the responses I was expecting. I post a thread about what price value do I use when looking for a used unit and the overwhelming reply was NADA low retail. But now 4 pages later, I'm being criticized because I'm confused as to why people are NOT using NADA as a base line.

Well, everyone has an opinion. I can see now, that you have started this thread because you've been trying to buy a unit, but you've been thwarted by buyers who you feel are overpaying for the units that you want to buy. I understand your frustration. You finally save what you feel is enough to purchase the unit you want, only to miss out because someone was willing to pay more. Then you start this thread to see if you are figuring the value of prospective units correctly.

As you can see, there are people on this site swearing up and down they would NEVER pay more than low retail. There are people that just trade in their untis, and always buy a new one. There are actually people that want to sell their units, and finally just go to a dealer and sell it to them. They know full well that the dealer will sell it for much more money. They just want out, and are willing to pay for the convenience of selling it to the dealer.

When I was a dealer, I would get in a nice condition, desirable car on trade. All the salesman would call customers waiting for such a car. We would always have a couple customers coming in trying to buy it on the cheap, and being VERY upset when they couldn't buy it for what THEY thought they should pay, according to the information they have. Meanwhile someone else willing to pay for a nice clean car, would buy it. The Customer looking for the bargain would go away, mad and frustrated.

I think you started this thread to seek advice, but when you reject some of this advice because it doesn't justify your position on this, you will open yourself up to criticism. Please don't take it personally. I think if you listened and read to every response, you will see that there are just as many different opinions as there are people.

You have two choices, you can search for a unit at the price you are willing to pay, or you can search for a unit you want, and jut try and negotiate the best price you can, and buy it.

[taken]

Originally Posted by rvguy40

That's what happens when a customer hammers the price down to dead cost of the unit, or very near it..if nobody's making a profit from it it's not worth investing the time doing anything...(everyone likes to get paid for the work they do ).. they pat it on the rump, throw you the keys and say "show me the taillights!" That way they can move onto a deal where they will make some profit to keep the lights on, pay the insurance, buy more inventory, etc.

Your a fool to think that any dealer is keeping the lights on by EVER taking dead cost on a unit. Those of us educated enough to get 30% off are just getting a fair price on the unit. The dealer is still making thousands at that price. Those who don't, allow the dealer to make many more thousands. Dealers try to retire on every deal. End of story. Sometimes they get away with it. As people get educated in good part due to the internet, the dealers margins are falling but they are only hurting relative to the killing they used to make. As far as prep, they don't prep the ones they make 8 grand on any better than the ones they make 2 grand on. They do the minimum possible to get it off the lot.

[Davdeb1]

Originally Posted by taken

Your a fool to think that any dealer is keeping the lights on by EVER taking dead cost on a unit. Those of us educated enough to get 30% off are just getting a fair price on the unit. The dealer is still making thousands at that price. Those who don't, allow the dealer to make many more thousands. Dealers try to retire on every deal. End of story. Sometimes they get away with it. As people get educated in good part due to the internet, the dealers margins are falling but they are only hurting relative to the killing they used to make. As far as prep, they don't prep the ones they make 8 grand on any better than the ones they make 2 grand on. They do the minimum possible to get it off the lot.

Being in the car business, I can tell you, many times units new and used are sold at a loss. Not dead cost, but a loss. These are units that for one reason or another are not as desirable as they should be, and they sit on the lot for months piling up floor plan charges. Once units get over 60 days old, the price starts coming down. It comes down until someone sees the value and finally buys it. This happens less than 5% of the time, and it is the cost of doing business.

I remember we got a new 1979 LTD II in from the factory on a special color promotion. It was medium blue metallic with brown seats. We had that darn car on the lot
For almost a year, finally sold it for $700 less than we paid for the factory.

[taken]

Originally Posted by Davdeb1

Being in the car business, I can tell you, many times units new and used are sold at a loss. Not dead cost, but a loss. These are units that for one reason or another are not as desirable as they should be, and they sit on the lot for months piling up floor plan charges. Once units get over 60 days old, the price starts coming down. It comes down until someone sees the value and finally buys it. This happens less than 5% of the time, and it is the cost of doing business.

I remember we got a new 1979 LTD II in from the factory on a special color promotion. It was medium blue metallic with brown seats. We had that darn car on the lot
For almost a year, finally sold it for $700 less than we paid for the factory.

I think we have already established that car dealerships are COMPLETELY different than RV's. Apples and oranges at it's finest.

[rvguy40]

Originally Posted by taken

Your a fool to think that any dealer is keeping the lights on by EVER taking dead cost on a unit. Those of us educated enough to get 30% off are just getting a fair price on the unit. The dealer is still making thousands at that price. Those who don't, allow the dealer to make many more thousands. Dealers try to retire on every deal. End of story. Sometimes they get away with it. As people get educated in good part due to the internet, the dealers margins are falling but they are only hurting relative to the killing they used to make. As far as prep, they don't prep the ones they make 8 grand on any better than the ones they make 2 grand on. They do the minimum possible to get it off the lot.

You're right...and from the sound of your posts, you're ALWAYS right..I guess I made the wrong career choice 20 years ago when I went into the RV business...starting in parts and service, to service manager, to sales, then into management.One would think I learned how a dealership operates, but apparently you believe I haven't. Write us back when you can actually make an educated, informed opinion on this topic ?

[NoFear]

Originally Posted by jackandjan

The time of year is dependent on where you are in the country. Different states have different "seasons".

For instance, we are in Arizona and the summers are dead for RV sales. Lots are already carrying 2013 models and need to make room for more. They want to get sales closed before end of the month......so, last couple of days of the month dealers will deal. We were able to get a new 2012 at $3000 below low retail, waive the doc and PDI fee (which shouldn't be there in the first place). Always be prepared to walk away.

Never pay average retail and always below low retail.

Good luck in making "your good deal".................everything is relative. You will always find someone else with the exact same unit that paid less than you and some that paid more. Make a deal on what works for you....

Can we reject paying the doc fee? And what is PDI? We can reject that too?

[taken]

Originally Posted by rvguy40

You're right...and from the sound of your posts, you're ALWAYS right..I guess I made the wrong career choice 20 years ago when I went into the RV business...starting in parts and service, to service manager, to sales, then into management.One would think I learned how a dealership operates, but apparently you believe I haven't. Write us back when you can actually make an educated, informed opinion on this topic ?

Yeah, I'm sure being in the business would make you VERY honest on forums of people interested in buying RV's. In legal terms, your take would be considered a conflict of interest. To sum it up, I believe you know exactly how a dealership works. I just don't believe you are in any way honest here on the boards.

[steveatpa]

Originally Posted by Davdeb1

Well, everyone has an opinion. I can see now, that you have started this thread because you've been trying to buy a unit, but you've been thwarted by buyers who you feel are overpaying for the units that you want to buy. I understand your frustration. You finally save what you feel is enough to purchase the unit you want, only to miss out because someone was willing to pay more. Then you start this thread to see if you are figuring the value of prospective units correctly.

As you can see, there are people on this site swearing up and down they would NEVER pay more than low retail. There are people that just trade in their untis, and always buy a new one. There are actually people that want to sell their units, and finally just go to a dealer and sell it to them. They know full well that the dealer will sell it for much more money. They just want out, and are willing to pay for the convenience of selling it to the dealer.

When I was a dealer, I would get in a nice condition, desirable car on trade. All the salesman would call customers waiting for such a car. We would always have a couple customers coming in trying to buy it on the cheap, and being VERY upset when they couldn't buy it for what THEY thought they should pay, according to the information they have. Meanwhile someone else willing to pay for a nice clean car, would buy it. The Customer looking for the bargain would go away, mad and frustrated.

I think you started this thread to seek advice, but when you reject some of this advice because it doesn't justify your position on this, you will open yourself up to criticism. Please don't take it personally. I think if you listened and read to every response, you will see that there are just as many different opinions as there are people.

You have two choices, you can search for a unit at the price you are willing to pay, or you can search for a unit you want, and jut try and negotiate the best price you can, and buy it.

I like everything you had to say until you got to the part claiming that I "rejected" advice. Please feel free to show where I rejected anything. I openly accepted, and still do, all advice and consider most members on the forum far more expert on this subject than I. But clearly if you read the thread over again you'll see where I asked to go left or right, everyone yells left, then when I do I get criticized because I didn't decide on my own. Weird. Even at that, the topic was about whether or not to add "options" on NADA, but we moved on to values.

So, after a long exhausting thread of opinions, I now understand that NADA is a base value of information which collects its information from dealers throughout the year which results in delayed reactions in relation to the actual market conditions values. So, in point, if you want something thats going to depreciate in value as rapidly as an RV/trailer then dont worry to much about the asking price because if you like it enough, just pay what it takes to get it and who cares if its worth half what you just shelled out in a year because its not an investment but a frivolous purchase to satisfy impetuous desires for that moment. Is that about right?

Ha Ha.....come on guys, its only a thread so stop bashing each other with spears of intellectual experience just because I seemingly asked a question which touches nerves. Its all just fun, so again, I appreciate all the help and I hope to find something within my budget soon so I can start asking more questions.

[rvguy40]

Originally Posted by taken

Yeah, I'm sure being in the business would make you VERY honest on forums of people interested in buying RV's. In legal terms, your take would be considered a conflict of interest. To sum it up, I believe you know exactly how a dealership works. I just don't believe you are in any way honest here on the boards.

Whatever.... I've got nothing to gain by being dishonest... but you've already made up your mind about things so....no need me debating any further.