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Old 10-26-2019, 10:39 PM   #1
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Keystone Raptor or GD momentum 320G

Looking at toyhauler, hubby is liking the raptor, not sure which model, but 36 to 38 ft range with at least 11 ft garage. I'm favoring the Grand Design 320G momentum, new for 2019. Anyway, which would you guys pick. Will be carrying a Honda Pioneer sxs at approx 2000 lbs with fuel.
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Old 10-28-2019, 06:54 AM   #2
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I would look at a model with 3 axles for hauling a SxS. The 320Gs I have seen are CAT scaling around 14,000 not loaded to travel. Real-world CCC is about 2600 pounds total, and with a toy hauler loaded up in the garage you will have those 7000 pound axles maxed out under the best of circumstances.

Look for a triple axle for hauling the Pioneer. Momentum has many as well as the Raptors. They are very similar on quality so choose the one with the options and floorplan you like.
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Old 10-28-2019, 01:13 PM   #3
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keystone Raptor

I have a 2018 Keystone Raptor 355S 39.5" with duel 7000" axles. I agree with the previous poster. After 10,000 miles of not very good braking and brakes coming apart and excessive rocking when hauling 2- 4-wheelers I upgraded the axles to 8000# axles,springs and added disc brakes and shocks now she rides and stops like a dream. All of the toy haulers in the 35-40' range with duel axles are in the same boat. I knew this going in however I just didn't want to go to 44' to get the triple axles. I love the Raptor now that all of the Kinks are worked out.
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Old 10-28-2019, 05:04 PM   #4
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Weird, we had a 2007 Raptor, smallest for that year with a 10ft enclosed garage, had 2 can-am quads in there, she pulled like a dream. All we did was put new tires on after we purchased it used. Pulled with a 2004 , 3500 Chevy dually.
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Old 10-28-2019, 05:09 PM   #5
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Ok, here are the numbers for the GD 320G that I like.
GVWR 16800
UVW 12400
CCC should be 4400lbs
HITCH WGT is 2475

I should have a lot left over after I put in my 2000 lb sxs, water, fuel, LP, clothes, food and supplies. Am I doing this right or is the GD site BS. Are there different numbers on a sticker on the toyhauler itself? We are trying to stay under 40 ft, and only need an 11ft. Garage.
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Old 10-28-2019, 07:36 PM   #6
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Website UVW will not match the actual trailer. This is normal for Grand Design as well as many others.

Ask the dealer to CAT scale it and see for yourself. Yes each trailer will have a different UVW from when it left the factory with no water, fuel, or batteries. You try to be frugal. You add 1/4 tank of water, 40 gallons of gasoline for the pump and genny, a bit of water in the black tank and viola-you add another 900 pounds or so. And you still need to pack your clothes, food, and gear.

As I said before, I have pulled 2 320s myself.

Not to mention you have only 14,000 pounds of axle rating on a 16,600 rated trailer. Start loading up the garage and you will see that rear axle get right up to 7000 quick.

I have owned 3 toy haulers, and I have towed dozens. I am only offering some friendly advice. A two-axle fiver hauler is made for a single bike or a light golf cart. Plenty of people pull overloaded trailers so I understand for some “the heart wants what the heart wants”
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Old 10-28-2019, 08:00 PM   #7
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Putting 2000lbs in the garage will unload 1000lbs or more off the tongue and put it on the axles. Those 7,000lb axles will be maxed out pretty quick.
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Old 10-28-2019, 08:08 PM   #8
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I contacted a local dealer and asked him to give me the numbers on the trailer sticker. 600 lb difference to the bad. If I load, fuel, water, sxs, I now only have 609 lbs for the rest. Guess it's not going to work this way. Why don't the builders of these units give proper numbers on website?
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Old 10-29-2019, 05:53 AM   #9
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And the sticker is usually less than the trailer as it sits on the lot as they add a few more items like the batteries and sometimes furniture AFTER it’s weighed at the factory. Every time I have weighed a brand new coach it was heavier than the factory listed UVW.

You are “hauling heavy” for a toy hauler carrying a SxS. When shopping also pay attention to stickers in the garages as many also have garage weight limits under the CCC of the coach. This is why I suggested looking at triple axles. Th floor plan you like is offered by just about all manufacturers. We have a similar layout just with 4 recliners instead of 3. We have a 21k GVWR with a 3500 pound garage limit, total CCC of about 6500 pounds.

While it is common practice to have less axle rating than GVWR on fifth wheels (like two 7000 pound axles on a 16k trailer), this practice is not a good idea on toy haulers where you can load out a garage well rear of the axles. For a toy hauler I always demand the axles match the total GVWR.
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Old 10-29-2019, 04:12 PM   #10
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Redhooker is exactly right!!

Our rig label says we have 4683# of CCC....but that did not factor in all the options we requested and were added after leaving the factory. I assumed I would never come close to loading that much in our rig. After selling the house, loading the rig and hitting the road, we stopped at a SmartWeigh station and got a huge surprise.....we were 1350# over GVWR. What the heck??!! We removed clothes/shoes, the Can-Am Maverick, tools, golf clubs, some pans/dishes/cooking appliances, the washer and dryer, the satellite dish, the spare tire and minimized the amount of canned goods, water and gas we carry while traveling. Some items were moved to boxes we installed on the truck, the king memory foam was swapped for a queen Sleep Number air bed, and the Maverick was swapped out for a couple of 300# motorcycles but we are still right at GVWR. Looking back, we should not have gotten the washer/dryer, generator, powered theater seating, and maybe the residential refrigerator. We also should have known what the rig weighed after adding the batteries, propane, gasoline, and some water. And then tracked the weight of everything we had added from there so there would have been no surprises.
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Old 10-29-2019, 06:32 PM   #11
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[QUOTE=redhooker;5015910]Website UVW will not match the actual trailer. This is normal for Grand Design as well as many others.

Ask the dealer to CAT scale it and see for yourself. Yes each trailer will have a different UVW from when it left the factory with no water, fuel, or batteries. You try to be frugal. You add 1/4 tank of water, 40 gallons of gasoline for the pump and genny, a bit of water in the black tank and viola-you add another 900 pounds or so. And you still need to pack your clothes, food,



Most every dealer I ever dealt with won't bother with weighing anything. I got a new Momentum, and in the packet of paperwork they gave us, I found a sheet from Grand Design. Had all of the numbers as it left factory. Gross weight, axle weight, pin weight, left side axle weight, right side axle weight. Had never seen anything like that in all of the rigs I bought. Not sure if they do this for all or mine was a fluke, but worth asking the dealer to look at the paperwork.
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Old 10-30-2019, 07:11 AM   #12
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[QUOTE=DuallyMike;5017102]
Quote:
Originally Posted by redhooker View Post
Website UVW will not match the actual trailer. This is normal for Grand Design as well as many others.

Ask the dealer to CAT scale it and see for yourself. Yes each trailer will have a different UVW from when it left the factory with no water, fuel, or batteries. You try to be frugal. You add 1/4 tank of water, 40 gallons of gasoline for the pump and genny, a bit of water in the black tank and viola-you add another 900 pounds or so. And you still need to pack your clothes, food,



Most every dealer I ever dealt with won't bother with weighing anything. I got a new Momentum, and in the packet of paperwork they gave us, I found a sheet from Grand Design. Had all of the numbers as it left factory. Gross weight, axle weight, pin weight, left side axle weight, right side axle weight. Had never seen anything like that in all of the rigs I bought. Not sure if they do this for all or mine was a fluke, but worth asking the dealer to look at the paperwork.
Thanks for that, we might go look at the 320G on Saturday and I'll ask to see paperwork. Hubby now thinking of just going with two quads instead of sxs, he's not keen on pulling a triple axle because of length.
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Old 10-30-2019, 08:53 AM   #13
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I have the 2018 Raptor 355 it has the 11' garage. The only way to get something 40' or under to haul anything good is to upgrade the axles yourself. I looked at the Grand design and Raptor models and they both had the same axles. I'm happy with mine after the upgrade however you better add about $4,000.00 to your budget and that's if you do the work yourself. Because of the remote places we camp I'm glad I didn't go to 44' just to get the triple axles.
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Old 10-30-2019, 10:06 AM   #14
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Our scaling has shown that a 1350lbs RZR in a Cyclone 3611 takes 900lbs off the Pin weight and adds 2250lbs (1350+900) to the puny 7,000lbs axles.
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