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Old 11-07-2013, 07:16 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by Dwayne & Shara View Post
no bashing was done I showed the weak parts of all of them and all are true and seeing I worked on all of them every day as a master tech. you can take it as facts even the new 6 speeds are weak over long towing trips. was just trying to help. how ever I guess I'll leave that to you rusty
I didn't see any bashing in what you said. I really liked your reply.
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Old 11-07-2013, 10:25 AM   #30
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Apples to apples? 4.10 rear end to a 4.20 rear end? Why the need for a new pump, turbo and injectors? Was there problems with the 2014's pump and injectors? or is it a power jump.

More power requires more fuel. Likely the pump was limited and so is the injectors. The turbo is also bigger for more air flow. They will be offering the 4:30 gear also. Before a 3:73 was the lowest ratio in a F250/350 platform.

Most issues with injector pumps were due to water in the fuel from lack of proper maintenance. However some did fail that were just factory defects but overall very reliable. They use a Bosh fuel pump that is the same as the Duramax. My understanding though is the Ford spec has more internal coatings on it to help make it more robust.
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Old 11-07-2013, 11:07 AM   #31
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More fuel more fuel consumption? What is the fuel dig between 3.73 and 4.10 some say not much?
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Old 11-07-2013, 11:11 AM   #32
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More fuel more fuel consumption? What is the fuel dig between 3.73 and 4.10 some say not much?
That is if you are heavy on the foot using that fuel. During normal towing, fuel consumption should be the same. You only need so much HP and torque to move that current truck and trailer. However, the difference between the two axle ratios I don't know exactly. I cannot believe it will be much. May even be better MPG towing with the lower ratio.
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Old 11-07-2013, 11:52 AM   #33
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I tried some math and thought it might be a 10% difference for the same speeds not having the exp I am asking?
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Old 11-07-2013, 01:00 PM   #34
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I tried some math and thought it might be a 10% difference for the same speeds not having the exp I am asking?
Fuel consumption is primarily a function of the horsepower being produced by the engine - in fact, brake specific fuel consumption is normally measured as lbs of fuel consumed per brake horsepower hour produced. Since brake horsepower (BHP) is a calculated value that's based on both torque and engine speed (BHP = [Torque x RPM] / 5252), if both engines are having to overcome the same aerodynamic drag, rolling resistance, etc. to hold a given road speed, both will be producing the same BHP. The difference is that the engine in the 4.10-geared truck will be running at a higher RPM but a lower torque to produce the same BHP. There might be a slight loss of MPG due to the higher frictional losses at this higher engine speed, but it certainly won't be 10%.

On the Dodge Ram/Cummins forums, the generally accepted variance between 3.54 and 4.10 gears on the older Dana-equipped 2nd generation trucks in unloaded cruising at 70 MPH was about 1 MPG. In the later AAM-equipped 3rd and 4th generation trucks, the variation between the 3.73 and 4.10 trucks is perhaps 1/2 MPG under the same conditions.

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Old 11-07-2013, 01:11 PM   #35
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Fuel consumption is primarily a function of the horsepower being produced by the engine - in fact, brake specific fuel consumption is normally measured as lbs of fuel consumed per brake horsepower hour produced. Since brake horsepower (BHP) is a calculated value that's based on both torque and engine speed (BHP = [Torque x RPM] / 5252), if both engines are having to overcome the same aerodynamic drag, rolling resistance, etc. to hold a given road speed, both will be producing the same BHP. The difference is that the engine in the 4.10-geared truck will be running at a higher RPM but a lower torque to produce the same BHP. There might be a slight loss of MPG due to the higher frictional losses at this higher engine speed, but it certainly won't be 10%.

On the Dodge Ram/Cummins forums, the generally accepted variance between 3.54 and 4.10 gears on the older Dana-equipped 2nd generation trucks in unloaded cruising at 70 MPH was about 1 MPG. In the later AAM-equipped 3rd and 4th generation trucks, the variation between the 3.73 and 4.10 trucks is perhaps 1/2 MPG under the same conditions.

Rusty
Makes sense, thanks Rusty, then why stay away from the 4.10s just noise? Not trying to be the #$% here just is it another one of those myths? Someone earlier said that the reason for the 3.42 ratios in the 2013 Ram 2500 was to keep them in line with legislation for fuel consumption, so that is bunk too?
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Old 11-07-2013, 01:22 PM   #36
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Power adjustable seats with heated lumbar support on both front seats. Extendable mirrors. Nerf bars. Adjustable steering column.
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Old 11-07-2013, 01:28 PM   #37
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Makes sense, thanks Rusty, then why stay away from the 4.10s just noise? Not trying to be the #$% here just is it another one of those myths? Someone earlier said that the reason for the 3.42 ratios in the 2013 Ram 2500 was to keep them in line with legislation for fuel consumption, so that is bunk too?
No, it's not totally bunk (see the variances in fuel economy that I quoted above), but for towing applications, the minimal fuel economy gains when the truck is unloaded don't justify the degraded towing capabilities of the higher (lower numerical) axle ratios. Because of the EPA's corporate average fuel economy (CAFE) regulations, these engineers would practically throw their mothers under a bus for 0.1 MPG improvement in fuel consumption; thus, the 3.42 gearing for the 2013 and 2014 SRW trucks. The 3.73 and 4.10 gears are reserved for the DRW trucks that the engineers (and marketing types) assume will be the real workhorses.

Rusty
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Old 11-07-2013, 01:35 PM   #38
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No, it's not totally bunk (see the variances in fuel economy that I quoted above), but for towing applications, the minimal fuel economy gains when the truck is unloaded don't justify the degraded towing capabilities of the higher (lower numerical) axle ratios. Because of the EPA's corporate average fuel economy (CAFE) regulations, these engineers would practically throw their mothers under a bus for 0.1 MPG improvement in fuel consumption; thus, the 3.42 gearing for the 2013 and 2014 SRW trucks. The 3.73 and 4.10 gears are reserved for the DRW trucks that the engineers (and marketing types) assume will be the real workhorses.

Rusty
I almost pulled the trigger on a loaded new 2013 dually RAM but stayed away because of the 4.10 gears now I wonder if I will regret it.
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Old 11-07-2013, 01:47 PM   #39
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A lot of people remember the older trucks with 4.10 gears and shy away from the newer ones. What they overlook is that, in the case of the Ram, both the 68RFE and the AISIN 6-speed automatics have two (2) overdrive gears, 5th and 6th. The gear ratio for 6th gear in the 68RFE is 0.625:1 which drops the engine RPM dramatically compared to the older single overdrive manual and automatic transmissions. For instance, my 2002 Ram 3500 dually with the NV5600 6-speed manual and 4.10 gears ran 2000 RPM @ 60 MPH in 6th; my 2011 Ram 3500 dually with the 68RFE 6-speed automatic and 4.10 gears runs 1612 RPM @ 60 MPH in 6th, which is excellent for both towing and unloaded cruising.

Under the same conditions, a 2013 truck with 3.42 gears would run 1344 RPM, and with 3.73 gears would run 1466 RPM in 6th gear.

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Old 11-07-2013, 01:58 PM   #40
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A lot of people remember the older trucks with 4.10 gears and shy away from the newer ones. What they overlook is that, in the case of the Ram, both the 68RFE and the AISIN 6-speed automatics have two (2) overdrive gears, 5th and 6th. The gear ratio for 6th gear in the 68RFE is 0.625:1 which drops the engine RPM dramatically compared to the older single overdrive manual and automatic transmissions. For instance, my 2002 Ram 3500 dually with the NV5600 6-speed manual and 4.10 gears ran 2000 RPM @ 60 MPH in 6th; my 2011 Ram 3500 dually with the 68RFE 6-speed automatic and 4.10 gears runs 1612 RPM @ 60 MPH in 6th, which is excellent for both towing and unloaded cruising.

Under the same conditions, a 2013 truck with 3.42 gears would run 1344 RPM, and with 3.73 gears would run 1466 RPM in 6th gear.

Rusty
I am now thinking that I should have grabbed that truck
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Old 11-07-2013, 04:20 PM   #41
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Found a frame that goes into the Dodge box which allows me to use my own hitch

Reese they call it the picture frame
Works with the fifth wheel prep package in the new Dodge could save me a 1000 bucks not having to buy a new hitch

Makes upgrading your truck easier as well when trading in
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Old 11-07-2013, 06:27 PM   #42
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A lot of people remember the older trucks with 4.10 gears and shy away from the newer ones. What they overlook is that, in the case of the Ram, both the 68RFE and the AISIN 6-speed automatics have two (2) overdrive gears, 5th and 6th. The gear ratio for 6th gear in the 68RFE is 0.625:1 which drops the engine RPM dramatically compared to the older single overdrive manual and automatic transmissions. For instance, my 2002 Ram 3500 dually with the NV5600 6-speed manual and 4.10 gears ran 2000 RPM @ 60 MPH in 6th; my 2011 Ram 3500 dually with the 68RFE 6-speed automatic and 4.10 gears runs 1612 RPM @ 60 MPH in 6th, which is excellent for both towing and unloaded cruising.

Under the same conditions, a 2013 truck with 3.42 gears would run 1344 RPM, and with 3.73 gears would run 1466 RPM in 6th gear.

Rusty
The 6R140 in the Superduty also has similar 5th and 6th gear ratios.
I have to imagine that the Allison that GM uses also has similar 5th and 6th gear ratios. I worked on a chassis cab truck recently and I believe it has 4:88 gears in it. Highway speeds was around 2000 RPM. Tire size also makes a difference. For instance if I had 22.5 tires on my motorhome instead of the 19" ones, RPMs would be 2-300 rpm less. Unfortunately I don't believe there are many options for rims sizes though in this size of truck.

Another thing to remember is that these newer trucks are a lot quieter than just a few years ago. So even if the engine is at a slightly higher RPM, you really do not know it. With the new 6.7L Ford diesel, the harder you push the engine, the quieter it seems to get. They are considerably quieter than a gas engine.
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