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Old 11-28-2015, 09:08 PM   #1
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Need help with selection of toy hauler

This is my first post to the board. I have been reading 100's of post today about the xlr's. Seems like there as been lots of problems with this TH. Fuel tank not filling, doors falling off hinges, ect. I have found a 2012 xlr 27hfs for $17,500, oh and read they only have 3500lbs axles under it. I just don't understand why they would put such small axles on a TH that you can't put over 1300 pounds in without getting close to maxing it out. Seems like a lot of quality issue with this model.

I read some who said they have a KZ-MXT 302 that did not seem to have many quality problems. I have not found a lot of info on this model on the board. I did find a 2012 KZ-MXT 302 for $16,500. Both the xlr and mxt are in really great shape. I do know the MXT does have 4400lb axles under it. So that is a big plus. I don't know if there are problems filling the fuel tank and other quality issues. I don't like that it is only 6'6" tall on the inside. I'm 6'2" and hate bumping my head on light fixtures, but I can live with that if I don't have all the other problems being talked about on the xlr.

What I need help with is which one would you buy? Hopefully there are people that have experience with both. I'm suppose to go look at these 2 units on Monday and buy one of them.

Final question, I'm looking to buy one of the new 2016 Toyota Tundras Double Cab with the 5.7 engine and tow package with the sway bar. I believe it is rated to 10,300 pounds. I will install a Blue Ox equalizer on the trailer.

I'm using the TH to do competition BBQ events. So in the cargo area it will only have my smoker and a small stainless steel sink about 600 lbs. Probably will only have about 1000lbs total loaded in the TH, not counting if I ever have to haul water. So the water would be another 400lbs to the TH. So at most 1400lbs total weight if I had to have water. Has anyone used this truck to pull either of these trailers?

Thanks in advance for answering these 2 questions.
Mike
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Old 11-29-2015, 02:09 PM   #2
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You're not hauling big toys and are buying a truck to do this...so, have you thought about just getting a motorized toyhauler? New is available in 2 floorplans from Newmar and there are 3 Outlaws.
Used is available from many makers, see:
Class "A" Toyhaulers

There is another member here that does the BBQ competition thing with an Outlaw and sometimes tows a small car for errands (much easier to get around in than a truck).

Best luck
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Old 11-29-2015, 02:32 PM   #3
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I looked at them. But I need to buy a new truck and want to get rid of my 27' motorhome that I am using now to tow my smoker. So the TH looks like the best of both worlds for me. Thanks for the suggestion.

Mike
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Old 11-29-2015, 05:14 PM   #4
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My daughters boyfriend just traded that truck in on a 2016 Dodge 2500 diesel to tow his toy hauler. He liked the truck ok. Got terrible gas mileage without towing. It would not tow enough toy hauler for his needs either though. I also know quite a few people who have towed smaller toy haulers with half tons. All of them ended up going to a 2500 or bigger truck. All but one with a diesel. I pulled a tt with a half ton a few times that only weighed 8000lb loaded and hated it. The new 2500's ride so nice its just not worth going to a half ton to me.
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Old 11-29-2015, 05:27 PM   #5
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Need help with selection of toy hauler

Have you looked at any of the Grey wolf TH? If your just going to be towing BBQ equipment then those may do the trick. Their cargo capacity is over 2000 lbs but still comes under 8000lbs for gvwr. I love my 26rr. I have no problem towing with my F150. My 2016 brand new was only 16890, from suburban TV in Ohio. Small dealer great people. Tom and wife were awesome. Love my Grey Wolf.


Ron & Shirley
Central Pa
Cherokee Grey Wolf 26rr
2002 Ford F150
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Old 11-29-2015, 09:52 PM   #6
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I did look at the Grey Wolf. They are nice TH. I just liked the set up of the XLR and MXT a little better. Hopefully I can get someone to tell me if they have experience with these 2 TH.

Mike
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Old 12-01-2015, 09:33 AM   #7
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All brands have issues. That said, I have an XLR and always look out for posts on them. I certainly haven't seen "100's of posts" about their failures. I can say that they are a great brand to deal with with top notch service after the sale if there is an issue and if mine needed to be replaced, I certainly wouldn't look elsewhere. I don't have any experience with the floorplan you are looking at but if you have any general XLR questions, I'd be glad to help. I'm also not sure of your location, but if you're close or willing to travel, Jeff Couch's RV Nation can't be beat on low pressure sales or pricing. We saved over 9k off the best out local dealer would do by taking the 800 mile trip.
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Old 12-02-2015, 08:42 PM   #8
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All brands have issues:
That's exactly right. What you can't see is how many were manufactured. So you see raw complaints, but can't consider them in context of how many of the model are out there.

You're right to look at axle capacity. You should also look at tires. Both are relatively easy problems to solve.

In terms of general stand-behind-the-product:
Look at BBB complaints. Not the number of complaints, but the "reasonableness" of the company response to the complaint. When you see companies indicating "we'll address this with the consumer" you should assume something is wrong, as the consumer already exhausted that avenue in many cases.

You CAN get one cheaper by traveling. What that doesn't address is the fact that you probably will have to take it back to the purchase dealer to have any significant work done on it. Sure, it CAN be serviced at any dealer, but you'll be dead-last on the list if you didn't buy it there, which can literally mean months to even consider a repair.



Look at the length of the factory warranty - that's also another indicator. The factory warranty tends to run between 1 and 3 years.
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Old 12-03-2015, 06:22 AM   #9
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I have looked at how XLR is manufactured CB. Went to their plant and got an extensive tour. They are low production compared to many other brands so more time is spent on each unit. As to having to go back to the selling dealer, this is an exaggerated internet myth. While there are some dealers who won't work on a unit they didn't sell, most will do it just put you at the back of the line. For me personally, I prefer to do 90% of my own warranty work myself anyway. Who wants to drag a 40+ foot RV to a dealer to have them do half arse repairs? If it is something beyond your ability, Couch's will make arrangements with a local dealer to get you in. Couch's will also get you the parts needed for the warranty repair yourself and ship ASAP. If they want the old ones back, they will send a UPS call tag in the box. This is the perfect setup for a guy who knows the difference between a screwdriver and a hammer. The only thing I couldn't do is major appliance repair which can be done at any dealer, not just a FR dealer as they are all certified to work on the major brands. Atwood, Dometic, Norcold, Suburban, etc. Again, you may be on the back of the list but it will get done. Major repairs are the exception and not the rule anyways. It's likely small stuff that will need adjustment and again, why not do it yourself?

Some will say they want it done by a dealer on principal even if they can do it themselves. To them, I completely understand and by all means, pay 10-20% more for your RV to get that service. Traveling a long distance to get a new rig and wrenching on it yourself isn't for everyone. For me it certainly was worth the $9500 I saved but YMMV. That's why it's good to have choices in the market. Something to please everyone.
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Old 12-03-2015, 07:18 AM   #10
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When I was looking for a toyhauler I looked at some XLR,s before I bought my KZ. I was only looking at used because of the price. The 2012-14 XLR's I looked at seemed to have finishing touch problems. This meaning the window treatments were pulling out/loose, the trim pieces in the garage were popping, screws missing, fixtures loose, etc.. The little things.
That said when I bought my used 2008 KZ Sportsman I found none of these issues that I was told by the other owners of toyhaulers at tracks were commonplace. I know it comes down to maintenance and care with these things but in my eye the KZ is a better built unit.
Bear in mind also that I'm sure quality control has changed over the years as well as manufacturers, and of course this is just my opinion.

Also something to keep in mind with toyhaulers is the weight distribution. Unloaded they are nose heavy to compensate for the toys behind the axles. So you could possibly have 15% or more tongue weight empty.
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Old 12-03-2015, 07:26 AM   #11
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On the fit and finish, could it could be a dealer prep difference? They all come with screws loose... but the dealer usually corrects all this during their pre-delivery go through. All that said, I wonder if the KZ line has gone downhill now that Thor owns them? They were known to be top notch for a long time but like any brand bough up by FR or Thor, things change... It's sad to see the independents go...

Actually, XLR is nose light compared to the competition due to more forward axle placement. My 44', 21k GCWR monster only weighs about 2850 on the pin with the garage empty and a couple hundred pounds less loaded. This is one reason I chose XLR over the competition with the same or similar floorplans. I wasn't ready for a DRW yet and didn't want to be over my RAWR, truck GVWR, or tire ratings which I am not.
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Old 12-04-2015, 07:24 AM   #12
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The issues I saw were more or less due to installers missing the "beams" during manufacturing. This was while I was doing researching and looking at units that were in use, not for sale. On one unit the lower diamond plate trim screws were pretty much all 1 inch off target to one side and screwed basically through the "wall" and into air. Don't remember the manufacturer, just struck me as a quality control issue.

As mentioned my trailer is a 2008, the ones I was looking at were years newer. I was pleasantly surprised to not find the issues on my trailer. Not saying it's brand specific, maybe more "era" specific, or even the old '"built on a Monday" phenomena?

I read that especially with TT the tongue weight numbers are "less than correct" and as such purchased a tongue weight scale which gets used very often!
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Old 12-04-2015, 07:33 AM   #13
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Weight numbers are always off on all RV's as they are a dry estimation based on no options and no gear in the camper. A tongue weight scale is a good idea. I have one too.

As to quality control, it's industry wide and getting worse. With sales currently at record numbers they have no incentive to slow down and do better....
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