Community Forums

melon · 07-17-2006, 06:58 PM

Hey Quadhauler, did your brother mention how hot is too hot? I just was wondering what to shoot for.

Rod

WWFan · 07-17-2006, 07:13 PM

Rod:

QH still needs to pipe in here, but when I put the Banks Full Powerpak system on my '00 7.3L F250, they specifically told me that the ECM will shut down the engine when the EGT's get to 1100 and to try to keep it under 1050...since then, though, I've heard the new 6.0's can get to 1300 or even 1400. Going up Cajon Pass, I might get to 900, but that was about it. They also told me I needed to idle it after parking to get them down below 300, or I'd have problems with cracking the turbo housing or warping the vanes.

And as QH said, if you see them getting up too high, dropping down off of overdrive makes a world of difference- you'd think it would be the other way around, but it isn't. Lugging isn't an option when you have a aftermarket system.

Sean

OCDUNE · 07-18-2006, 05:30 AM

Hey Sean, is that Pre-Turbo or Post Turbo? 1100 pre-turbo would be pretty limiting.

WWFan · 07-18-2006, 06:04 AM

Hey Good Morning OCDUNE!

You know...I can't remember...whatever Banks suggests, which I believe is pre-turbo...oh- I found their FAQ on it...here it is:

What is the best location for the exhaust gas temperature probe on a turbo-diesel?
This question is tougher to answer than you might think. There are two ways to measure exhaust gas temperature on a diesel engine: before the turbo (turbine inlet temperature); and after the turbo (turbine outlet temperature). When reasonably convenient, we recommend measuring the turbine inlet temperature, because this is the hottest"”and most meaningful"”temperature when evaluating the engine's performance. But when there's not a convenient place to put a probe in the turbine inlet side of the exhaust, the alternative is to mount the probe after the turbocharger, measuring the turbine outlet temperature. But this also presents a problem. The outlet of the turbo on the Duramax engine, for example, is shaped awkwardly, and the factory turbine outlet pipe is a very non-concentric shape to accommodate the outlet, so once again, there is not a good place to install a probe until about two feet after the outlet of the turbo. By going that far downstream, the integrity of the measurement is sacrificed.
Perhaps the best recommendation is to drill and tap a hole in one of the exhaust manifolds, and install a threaded pyrometer probe in there. Just be VERY CAREFUL about not getting any metal chips in the manifold, which would cause damage to the turbocharger. About the only way to be sure of this is to pull the manifold off of the vehicle to do the drilling and tapping.

But like I said, I really never had it get that high- even with my lead-laden SLC. I did weigh the complete unit one time going out to the river, and I was 20,940 GCW, so I was a bit overweight with it (20k was GCWR for the 2000 F250).

Sean

Quadhauler · 07-18-2006, 07:50 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by WWFan:
Rod:

QH still needs to pipe in here, but when I put the Banks Full Powerpak system on my '00 7.3L F250, they specifically told me that the ECM will shut down the engine when the EGT's get to 1100 and to try to keep it under 1050...since then, though, I've heard the new 6.0's can get to 1300 or even 1400. Going up Cajon Pass, I might get to 900, but that was about it. They also told me I needed to idle it after parking to get them down below 300, or I'd have problems with cracking the turbo housing or warping the vanes.

And as QH said, if you see them getting up too high, dropping down off of overdrive makes a world of difference- you'd think it would be the other way around, but it isn't. Lugging isn't an option when you have a aftermarket system.

Sean </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

If I remember correctly my brother told me to keep it below 1000, but I'm not really sure about that as Seans post could be swaying my memory. I have a small red dot I put on the face of the gauge, but my wife is moving our daughter into an apartment in the Bay Area and has the truck right now. As far as letting it cool down before shutting the engine off, according to my bro this doesn't apply to the new diesels because they use a different type of turbo bearing. It used to be that the old style bearing got so hot it would literraly burn/coke the oil around that bearing if the engine was shut off and circulation was stopped. When oil cokes it's like sandpaper floating around your engine which is obviously not a good thing. My bro says running synthetic oil has multiple benifits, one being eliminating this problem altogether and the new style bearings also eliminate the problem even when running regular oil. Of course he also say's letting it idle for a couple minutes after a heavyhaul is a good idea regardless.

WWFan · 07-18-2006, 08:43 AM

QH:

Yep...that's the other downside of not letting it cool off...coking...forgot about that one.

And you know- I almost went the synthetic way until I saw the price (even @ WallyWorld...$22/gal vs. $9 for dynolube). In addition to QH's stated advantage, the only other benefit is that you can go longer between chnages, but NOT if you like your warranty!

Thanks QH!

Sean

Quadhauler · 07-18-2006, 09:21 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by WWFan:
QH:

Yep...that's the other downside of not letting it cool off...coking...forgot about that one.

And you know- I almost went the synthetic way until I saw the price (even @ WallyWorld...$22/gal vs. $9 for dynolube). In addition to QH's stated advantage, the only other benefit is that you can go longer between chnages, but NOT if you like your warranty!

Thanks QH!

Sean </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

My truck has a gauge that keeps track of my engines oil life. Seems like it requires me to change my oil about every 12000 miles. I asked my brother about that because it seemed like an awfully long time between intervals. He said changing every 12000 would be fine when running synthetics. I was really skeptical about that, but he has his oil analyzed every other oil change (he also goes 12000 on his Cummins) and so far they have all come back good. I figure if I follow my oil life indicator I shouldn't have any warranty issues. Makes running synthetic oil cost effective for me.

Bob

OCDUNE · 07-19-2006, 08:23 AM

From my experience and all that I have read on the dieselplace, the duramax guys typically go pre-turbo, at that point, they do see 12-1400 degrees on the high end, some of the racers & truck pullers even go as high as 2000 degrees on a short run. There will be probably a 300 degree diference preturbo vs post turbo, my guess is that is what you are quoting for 1100 degrees, which would match the preturbo temps I quoted.

Quadhauler · 07-19-2006, 01:09 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by OCDUNE:
From my experience and all that I have read on the dieselplace, the duramax guys typically go pre-turbo, at that point, they do see 12-1400 degrees on the high end, some of the racers & truck pullers even go as high as 2000 degrees on a short run. There will be probably a 300 degree diference preturbo vs post turbo, my guess is that is what you are quoting for 1100 degrees, which would match the preturbo temps I quoted. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Mine is setup pre turbo. This is of particular concern with the Duramax because the aluminum heads are vulnerable to high heat situations. At least that's what I was told and it does make sense to me.

Fabulous Deb · 07-19-2006, 08:45 PM

When I had 4WPH install the Edge Progarmmer, they installed the EGT sensor pre-turbo right in the exhaust manifold. The programmer has a warning beep that goes off when I hit 1250 degrees. I think I have only come close once in the summer in Baker. I don't think it has ever gone off.
So the big question here is do I lower the warning beep to 1000, or do I leave it the same because the sensor is reading gas right out of the manifold. Also, I wonder how much it drops from the manifold to the turbo. I also have a boost gauge that reads pounds of boost. It has never changed in 70,000 miles. I would think if had caused some damage I would have seen a differnce in boost lbs. That is set to warn me if I go over 22 lbs of boost. I ask my mechanic about how much boost is too much and he says Ford spec is 32 lbs then you'll run into cracking problems. Of course if it brakes I can install a bigger one with ball bearings. Now I have something to look forward to.

Rod

melon · 07-19-2006, 08:47 PM

Oh crap, I was lodded on under my wife, sorry. All my wife knows about Turbos and trucks is the little pedal makes it go and the big one makes it stop.

Rod

Quadhauler · 07-19-2006, 09:33 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Fabulous Deb:
When I had 4WPH install the Edge Progarmmer, they installed the EGT sensor pre-turbo right in the exhaust manifold. The programmer has a warning beep that goes off when I hit 1250 degrees. I think I have only come close once in the summer in Baker. I don't think it has ever gone off.
So the big question here is do I lower the warning beep to 1000, or do I leave it the same because the sensor is reading gas right out of the manifold. Also, I wonder how much it drops from the manifold to the turbo. I also have a boost gauge that reads pounds of boost. It has never changed in 70,000 miles. I would think if had caused some damage I would have seen a differnce in boost lbs. That is set to warn me if I go over 22 lbs of boost. I ask my mechanic about how much boost is too much and he says Ford spec is 32 lbs then you'll run into cracking problems. Of course if it brakes I can install a bigger one with ball bearings. Now I have something to look forward to.

Rod </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You haven't seen a difference in boost because your waste gate is working properley. Your turbo is creating a lot more than 22 lbs of boost, but your wastegate is set at 22lbs and redirects gasses over 22 lbs. Sounds like everything is working great for you to me and if it ain't broke, don't fix it! Well unless you like fixing it that is

OCDUNE · 07-21-2006, 06:43 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Quadhauler:
Mine is setup pre turbo. This is of particular concern with the Duramax because the aluminum heads are vulnerable to high heat situations. At least that's what I was told and it does make sense to me. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Quadhauler, I am beginning to think that is just a myth. All of the ford/dodge guys were pridicting doom and gloom with the aluminum heads when the Duramax came out. Dodge guys like to call them soda can heads. The truth is they seem to be an advantage as they move heat quicker. One of the diesel sites just did a pull off in Montana, the guys were doing 0-60 runs with huge trailers in tow, they said their pyros were buried at 2000 for the run, no problems.

This is not to say that they are indestructable, but I do not believe that the aluminum is a problem. Ford has had way more head problems than Chevy.

Quadhauler · 07-21-2006, 07:03 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by OCDUNE:
Quadhauler, I am beginning to think that is just a myth. All of the ford/dodge guys were pridicting doom and gloom with the aluminum heads when the Duramax came out. Dodge guys like to call them soda can heads. The truth is they seem to be an advantage as they move heat quicker. One of the diesel sites just did a pull off in Montana, the guys were doing 0-60 runs with huge trailers in tow, they said their pyros were buried at 2000 for the run, no problems.

This is not to say that they are indestructable, but I do not believe that the aluminum is a problem. Ford has had way more head problems than Chevy. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well I don't have any first hand experience to be honest, but before becoming a computer network guy I ran a repair shop myself and I did see my fair share or iron block, aluminum head problems. That was all pre 1993 though. Before becoming a national rep for Cummins last year my brother was the engine shop's lead tech at Cummins West in West Sacramento CA. This is a very large commercial dealership/repair facility so they saw many brands of diesel engine, the Duramax/Izuzu being specially prevelant in the mid size commercial trucks. Apparently he saw his fair share of the engines come through with damage in the head area. Much to his chagrin, I didn't consult with him when I bought my truck, with the GM employee pricing I just got a deal I couldn't refuse. So he gave me these warnings after the fact, not in an attempt to guide me to the Dodge dealer. With the power of the internet I am often skeptical of reported problems because it seems if somebody has a problem, everyone hears about it these days. It's a double edge sword in my opinion as we have so much information at our fingertips, but let's face it, when thousands and thousands of units are sold some will have problems and unlike the old days when we only heard about things like the Pinto Flambe', now we hear about everything! I always try and find a forum for whatever new toy I am considering and anymore there is always some issue being reported with that toy. I also think maybe some paid drivers have the "drive it like you stole it" mentality and that could contribute to what my bro see's? He is a HUGE Cummins guy to, so maybe it slants his view? He seemed geniune when telling me to watch the heat though and he does know his stuff, that I have no doubt about. My Duramax has been absolutely flawless so far and I am extremely happy with every aspect of my truck. By far the favorite truck I've owned and I have owned a few good trucks...