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Old 06-23-2005, 09:23 PM   #15
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Alright guys enough! your making me blush!
Can't wait to drink a few with all of you!!!
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Old 06-23-2005, 09:32 PM   #16
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You can see my toys on my photo link in my sig below. I used to have a sand buggy, but we sold it years ago. I'll have to find a picture to post some day.

Clark
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Old 06-24-2005, 12:34 PM   #17
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Wow... ok, here it goes..

Yes
Yes
no
You can't prove that! can you?

Sorry... That's how I answer my wife when she peppers me with questions like that..

Anyhow; to start off I am probably one of the last true believers in 2 stroke technology. I have raced a YZ250 for a LOOOOONG time.. Nothing could be easier to maintain (and cheap too!)

Now, with that being said, I just plunked down a deposit on a '06 YZ450F... Yes, a 4-stroke. My racing has changed from Motocross to desert/enduro over the past few years, so a clutch is no longer necessary and with the thumper I can ride on auto pilot... Not to mention, I am not as slim as I once was. I need all of that extra torque the AMA says I can have. NOTE: If 500 cc 2 strokes were still in production, big thumpers would not exist.. Thank you California!

As for TH size... Like Diirk, we had a small trailer that lasted exactly 4 months... Now, the 39 ft Raptor is just right! And with 50 AMP service, I can keep a battery of blenders going non-stop. When I think about it, that's the REAL reason I bought that thing....
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Old 06-24-2005, 12:52 PM   #18
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Jamman
alright,
so the Raptor come with a battery of blenders,
interesting;
and we also learn that your wife asks you questions that the only really suitable answer from you is:
"You can't prove that! Can you???????"
I would think that if you would quit asking her the "Can You??????" after the "You can't prove that!!!!!" you might get away with it more often

and talk a little more about the different riding style between the 2 and 4 strokes. You slipping the bike into gears with the F as your feel the Rpm's at the right spot without using the clutch, but can't do that on the revving 2 strokes?
Whats the big riding diffs bewtween the two?

Mike
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Old 06-24-2005, 01:35 PM   #19
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Jamman:
Wow... ok, here it goes..

Yes
Yes
no
You can't prove that! can you?

Sorry... That's how I answer my wife when she peppers me with questions like that..

</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

LMAO!!!

Good one Jay! A "battery of blenders", ey? Maybe you can cut out the side of the Raptor, make a palm fron overhang, build a bar, get a few stools, and sell drinks off the coach! I can see it now actually!

And you'll love that 450...that's supposed to be quite the bike!

Sean
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Old 06-25-2005, 08:59 AM   #20
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by FatDog:
and talk a little more about the different riding style between the 2 and 4 strokes. You slipping the bike into gears with the F as your feel the Rpm's at the right spot without using the clutch, but can't do that on the revving 2 strokes?
What's the big riding diffs between the two?
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

This may get long.. Sorry

There are very distinct characteristics, both pro and con, of each engine. A 4 stoke cannot achieve the same horsepower as a similar sized 2 stroke because of more reciprocating mass and the additional strokes in the engine cycle. That's why the geniuses in the AMA allow a 450 thumper to race against 250 two strokes. A 4 stroke, however, will produce more torque and a much broader power band (250 vs. 450) which makes it much better suited for sandy washes, open desert and hilly motocross events. Once you get it into 3rd or 4th gear, you can basically leave it there and never use a clutch.

Tighter tracks with more turns and shorter straights are better suited to 2 strokes. A 2 stroke can rev into the optimal power band much faster due to its lower weight and less reciprocating mass. It does, however, require more clutch work to keep the RPM's in the power band. Once you learn the clutch technique though, it is an amazing feeling to square up a turn and scream out.

There are other differences that take some getting used to if you switch between bikes. A 2 stoke is generally lighter than its competing 4 stroke which makes turning much easier. A 4 stroke has a lot of engine braking. That comes in handy on steep down hills. On my 2 stroke 250 a very steep downhill is a roller coaster ride, relying only on brakes.... If you watch me coming down Mt. St. Helens at the Glen Helen MX track, it looks like I am going to bite it every time.

One of the reasons I want to switch (other than my racing has changed) is a 4 stroke is easier to go slow on. I follow my daughter around on her 50 cc quad, and on my 250 I can't leave it in 1st or second gear and just idle around. It is an all or nothing engine. The 4 stroke is different in that regard. It is much easier to baby around...

As for maintenance, a 2 stroke will always be easier and cheaper. There are fewer moving parts to replace and fewer components to open up. My 250 costs me $100 for a new top end and takes an hour to change, by myself. Thumpers are EASILY twice that if not more since most owners won't do a 4 stroke top end. They pay massive labor charges.

I am afraid though the 2 stroke is a dying breed. Not because of technology or performance, but rather because of the AMA, EPA and CARB. Who knows, maybe one day I'll be able to race my 250 in the vintage class....

EDIT: Of course I am talkng 2 wheeled motocross bikes here. I know nothing about quads, kids bikes or smaller play bikes...
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Old 06-25-2005, 09:01 AM   #21
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by WWFan:
Maybe you can cut out the side of the Raptor </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yeah, I am pretty certain Eve will not go for that. If I do, you had better have an extra bed in your WW for me.
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Old 06-25-2005, 09:10 AM   #22
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Jay
That was good stuff.!
could not have been said better.

The hows and why of 2 and 4 strokes, from a racing man, and family man.

thanks Jay
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Old 06-26-2005, 12:13 PM   #23
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Yeah Jay:

GOOD 'splain there Lucy! Except I will debate one thing...maintenance costs...before Honda came out with the CRF's, an old XR400 or 250, and especially my 1985 350X 4-banger- the only thing you had to do was change the oil, clean the air filter (and box) and an occasional sparkplug. Yes- if ya gotta get into the engine- you're right, but maintenance-wise, it's hard to beat a Honda 4 stroke...

Sean
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Old 06-26-2005, 06:40 PM   #24
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Don't be fooled my friend. A piston on a 4 stroke needs replacing too. And don't forget the valve adjustments every few hours of hard riding. Maybe my situation is a bit different; granted... I race motocross ALL the time. I'll tear up a motor (2 stroke or 4) after 10 to 15 hours of riding.... At that point, the cost factor is huge in comparison...

...Lucy
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Old 06-26-2005, 08:29 PM   #25
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OK...Jay:

I can give you that, but for the most of us, if you're not racing it, it'll go a long way before that on a 4- a 2 isn't so forgiving. My 1985 350X I have yet to have to get to the rings, and I've got a poop-load on that motor, and it runs like it did when I bought it. If it was a 2, then I wudda been throught it 5 or 6 times now. And there's been quite a few times I rode it hard and put it up wet...

I suppose it might make a diff if you mod it...my 350X is complete stock, so I'll throw that out there just in case! (Call it somewhat a off-white flag, OK?)...

Sean
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Old 06-27-2005, 06:06 AM   #26
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No Sean. You're still wrong... Just accept it.
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Old 06-27-2005, 06:13 AM   #27
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Old 06-27-2005, 06:27 AM   #28
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Ok guys,

I have a Banshee that I bought in the winter of 1992, (1990 model), I used it 8-10 times a year for 10 years and only sparcely the past couple years. It has been riden very hard over and over year after year, and has never been rebuilt. The heads never been off the motor, I guess one of those if it an broke don't fix items. In that same time I had to rebuild a Blaster, 2 80's and a 350 Warrior. Now that I've said that, it will probally seize the next time it starts. Just one of those wonders of machine nature kind of things....

Clark
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