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Old 02-20-2016, 12:15 AM   #15
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No matter what brand you buy choose a dealer with a solid background. That will make a HUGE difference in your buying and support experience. Many negative views of manufacturers are due to a poor dealer. Again there is some bashing on Keystone here. We have had nothing but great from Keystone. But we also have a good dealer that made sure that was the case.
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Old 02-20-2016, 03:14 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by jamesr3406 View Post
Thanks for the input.

I believe that it seems it has come down to DRV, New Horizon, Heartland, Key Stone. I havent really spent time looking at K-Z or Jayco, but I will give them some more time. It does seem most everyone has the same concern with most of them as far as axles and tires go. I would like to have a 12'-13' garage and a TV in the living room that is not at a 90 degree angle from the seating. I would also like to have 40' plus.

New Horizon doesn't belong in this group. They are a custom builder that will build your plan at their price. A Motomover is in the $200k range new.
The DRV FullHouse is also a great unit, but it is priced accordingly as well. It's more of a Fulltime toyhauler with an extra room.
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Old 02-22-2016, 08:31 PM   #17
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I do not understand why these manufactures do not spend a few more hours on building these things the right way. Yes if you look at the wiring it is just thrown together with little thought. It is nothing like a Honda.
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Old 02-23-2016, 08:20 AM   #18
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i could not agree more with the advice that YOU HAVE TO SEE THE UNIT UP CLOSE.... for me it took 2 years to finally find one that had no immediate issues upon my inspection, because let me tell ya, as soon as i opened the door to a unit and saw "stuff" on the floor or other manf/qc basic issues i turned to the salesman and said this manf OBVIOUSLY just does NOT care!!! then i moved to the next on my list and so on, and i do believe from my many "looks" at models that it IS true, u get what u pay for without question!!

I finally chose a Raptor, I could not find one with better quality and one that passed my test initially.... as for ones to stay away from, well i could give you a long list but that would not be fair cause my standards are diff than yours??

good luck
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Old 02-23-2016, 02:48 PM   #19
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I do not understand why these manufactures do not spend a few more hours on building these things the right way. Yes if you look at the wiring it is just thrown together with little thought. It is nothing like a Honda.
I understand. Consumers want cheap trailers. They build them. And as long as consumers buy, they will build this way.
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Old 02-23-2016, 03:48 PM   #20
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I do not understand why these manufactures do not spend a few more hours on building these things the right way. Yes if you look at the wiring it is just thrown together with little thought. It is nothing like a Honda.

Money. We want cheap trailers. And objective quality measurements are not easily available.

We're also inexperienced (compared to buying cars). We fall for the 15-year roof warranty, not knowing that it's material only.

Actually doing a wiring diagram and adhering to it for all the various makes and models would be very expensive. If they sold like Hondas, it might be a little more feasible. You probably can't pay line workers in IL their current labor rates to do it.

The other reason is that lots of problems get pushed off to dealers. Dealers resolve the ones that consumers care about - which is some sub-set of original problems. Not all consumers bring their trailers in for warranty work - it's too far, too much trouble, lots of reasons. And of that warranty work that does get done, manufacturers can set the labor rate and how much they'll pay for it. It's about controlling costs.

If we bought trailers like we buy cars - I mean all of us - not just those that do the RV thing, quality would become much more apparent. It's hard to find actual consumer data on build quality (unlike cars) - so harder to put a non-subjective label on a manufacturer.
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Old 02-23-2016, 06:19 PM   #21
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It sounds like it was a lot easier buying my F350 than it is going to be buying a toy hauler.

I found Jayco Seismic 4250 floor plan that I really liked but the garage is not big enough. I also have not heard much about them. Does anyone know of any other brand that has a similar floor plan with a garage 12'-13'?

Once again I want to thank everyone for their imput.
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Old 02-25-2016, 03:59 PM   #22
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To me, quality is not subjective when a new toyhauler has screws on the floor from the sliding glass door,...door jams and cabinet doors not properly aligned from the factory,...bolts backing out of the hinges on the ramp. All happened on the first trip out, which was less than 60 miles from my house.
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Old 02-25-2016, 04:06 PM   #23
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Jayco is a good brand - direct support with a 2-year warranty. I've owned them before and I was happy with them. They use traditional line construction techniques, so you're still going to get non-engineered wiring, AC routing, etc.

Jayco has provided me direct part support as a 2nd-hand owner.

I don't know if they make a unit with a 12+ foot garage.


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To me, quality is not subjective when a new toyhauler has screws on the floor from the sliding glass door,...door jams and cabinet doors not properly aligned from the factory,...bolts backing out of the hinges on the ramp. All happened on the first trip out, which was less than 60 miles from my house.
Yup, lots to shake down - and buying used might actually be better in some cases. Lots of that could be avoided if they just choose to balance the darn wheels/tires!
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Old 02-26-2016, 08:57 AM   #24
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It sounds like it was a lot easier buying my F350 than it is going to be buying a toy hauler.

u got that right.....
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Old 02-29-2016, 01:48 AM   #25
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Just beware of who is giving what advice and why. People that label "all Thor products are no good" are taking quite a broad stripe that is not based in reality. Surely none of them has owned "all Thor" products, but are still willing to throw comments like that around. As mentioned earlier, Thor owns a large percentage of the mfg's and like anything else, some are better than others. You have to watch out for the "RV envy syndrome" when asking for advice here. There are many out there that will try to tell you that their 20 year old coach is better than anything new out there. Obviously that is a preference that some prefer. But I found these claims that all new RVs are junk to be based more on RV Envy than anything else. Just like most things in the market place, you get what you pay for. Watch out for some of the crazy things some haters are willing to say. You will start to see through the BS pretty quick on here.

Love my Keystone Raptor. Quality has been great. Keystone has been great for post sale support. There are so many models / brands. Take your time and make it fun. And of course, not all advice is good out there, but you are figuring that out. You will find a great rig.
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Old 02-29-2016, 08:59 AM   #26
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I wouldn't advise staying away from "all" Thor products - otherwise you were just told to stay away from 75% of the RV market.

I own a Keystone toy hauler (Carbon) - it has fewer bells/whistles than the Raptor mentioned above.

I'm reasonably happy with it. I think it was a good value for what I paid for it and then things that it doesn't have (Like wet bolt suspension) - I'm happy to add myself.

It had a few minor issues post PDI. It had one "major" issue that I caught early - the roof material wasn't glued properly and ballooned up, cutting itself. It was repaired under warranty, but Keystone doesn't cover any changes to the roof wood itself apparently in spite of recommendation. My roof came out OK - probably not as good cosmetically as a new roof, but OK. Cosmetic issues are not covered by the Keystone warranty.

In regard to Keystone direct support, I've had none. This is just my experience. Reaching out to Keystone ends up with a referral to a dealer. Asking status about a repair approval results in a referral to the dealer.

My dealer has been helpful - they're really Keystone support... But typically issues take 30+ days to repair best case - it takes that long for inspection, warranty approval, parts to show up at the dealer, and actual repair time. That may be the same as other manufacturers.. I don't know.

This has only caused a problem once. All of our interior lighting failed while we were on the road (one light at a time). Keystone referred us to local dealers, who indicated 3-6 month wait, as they were either busy or didn't want the business. Not great when you're using flashlights in the RV. Our local dealer eventually had me ship the failed lights, shipped me new lights - which worked OK, but again, took several weeks round trip. I consider that sub-part support, but that's really my only experience. Good support would have been expediting a light shipment to me directly (rather than to the dealer, then re-ship to me) - I would have been happy to pay up front to cover those costs if I could get reimbursed after returning the old lights.

I would buy another Carbon. I just think that people need to understand that not all manufacturers will do direct support of their customers. Jayco will. Keystone wont - based on experience. I'm sure there is a lot of in-between.
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Old 02-29-2016, 09:48 AM   #27
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I'll say all Thor products given the treatment I got from them.

Things ALWAYS happen, yes, initial quality control will help alleviate a lot of issues, but after the issues leave the factory, it's how a company responds to issues that tell you a lot about the company...

And I could tell you a LOT about my upper end, ordered, and somewhat built unit that had to be bought back.

I went to look at entegra's, newmars, and Monaco's this weekend...
I can't believe I am saying this because we LIKE the latest and greatest toys...
but not going to pay twice or more as much as mine is worth to get just a few more bells and whistles... especially when I think the new one IS built more poorly by new employees since the 2008 rv crash.
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Old 02-29-2016, 09:53 AM   #28
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I'll say all Thor products given the treatment I got from them.

Things ALWAYS happen, yes, initial quality control will help alleviate a lot of issues, but after the issues leave the factory, it's how a company responds to issues that tell you a lot about the company...

And I could tell you a LOT about my upper end, ordered, and somewhat built unit that had to be bought back.
so you had a bad unit..... so all Thor is bad...... OP see what I mean.
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